View Full Version : Systems versus "feel" for banking and kicking
Do you use systems for banking and kicking, or do you just judge the angle and speed? I ask because I've been working with the banking system Ray Martin teaches in 99 Critical Shots, but it isn't working out for me because it doesn't take into account the the OB sliding or rolling into the cushion, cushion compression, and other factors. I do better shooting bank shots instinctively, but not good enough to be content. How about you: systems or "feel?"
The best bank training I've tried so far is taking CB in hand and setting up banks that seem to be straight in. This seems to tune me into gauging angles, and I can adjust for off angle shots with pretty good accuracy. Do you know of any other drills for developing banks and kicks?
11-25-2002, 05:31 PM
I am not good at banks. There are only a couple I can make, you know the ones that are 'already in the hole'. I hope one day to get some instruction on this that is no so complex. WW is good at banks but he tells me all this english stuff that I am not ready to get into.
Kicks are easier for me cuz I can look at the angles and it helps me to remember how far a certain hit on the rail needs to be from the diamond or in some cases on the diamond. I have used one rail kick shots to make one of my balls but have only used 2-3 rail kicks to get a legal hit on my ball and to play safe. Using them to get in the ball seems a little beyond my expertise unless it is one rail.
Some play by feel but I am not there yet. I still have too much to learn about the game.
11-25-2002, 05:56 PM
I use some form of system to approximate almost all of my banks and kicks. In the final analysis, however, my intuition must agree with what the system shows me. If they don't agree then I must decide which one I have more faith in or find another route that works. I don't miss many kick shots where I am simply trying to hit the ball. My success rate is not quite as good when I'm trying to make the ball or hit a particular part of the ball.
Most of the systems I use are based upon reflections with compensation for english and speed. I don't know what literature to direct you to as I learned most of my systems from knowledgable players.
Steve in CA
Sometimes I go strictly on feel but sometimes I use a method I got from Jeanette Lee's book which helps a lot. It's somewhat hard to explain so it's probably best that you see the book. Imagine another pool table connected to the one you're playing on. If you are standing on the longer rail, and want to bank it off the far rail and back towards you to the side pocket, Aim the object ball at the far side pocket on the imaginary table. The angle is the same so it should work. Like I said, you should see the book because it is confusing, especially without diagrams, but it helped me.
11-25-2002, 11:05 PM
I'm no Banking or Kicking expert, but what seems to be working for me for most aspects of Pool including Banking, is to use systems/theory to get me into the ballpark and in the right part of the stadium, then using practice and feel to get me to the right seat.
My cueball control has improved so much recently, just because i am getting a bigger and bigger database of shot scenarios and know what is going to happen in each one more and more.
I actually did some banking practice a few days ago and was amazed at how good i was just from judgement. If i missed one, i was almost always able to get it in with a second try, again more info into the database
I do agree with what has been said before that the best Pool players have great memories. I'm lucky i got an exceptional one /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
9 Ball Girl
11-25-2002, 11:06 PM
That system is called The Mirror System and it's not bad at all. Like the previous post stated, imagine a mirror image of the pool table that you're playing on, aim to shoot the OB to the pocket on your "mirror table" and that should send it crossbank into the pocket in your "real table". Hope that helps. I use this system when I have those bank shots that are a little off the angles I can "feel" and it works really well. Good luck! And...
If you can't get that mirror image in your head, then look at the table that's right next to the one you're on. Assuming that the tables are in the same position, that's as good a mirror image you can get. Or if you don't have a table next to yours, then try to look for a spot on the wall, floor, lightbulb, etc.
11-25-2002, 11:49 PM
That's the Image-Table System. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
C.C.~~Wendy know's what time it is.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
/ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif The Mirror System makes perfect sense. I'm going try that tomorrow, only because it's too late for me to try it today. Thanks, 9 Ball Girl and ddb182.
Thanks to everybody else too. Bluewolf, I was surprised to read that you find kicks easier than banks. I can kick well enough to make safeties, avoid fouls, and set up balls in one-pocket, but pocketing anything other than "gimme balls" only happens on my best days.
11-26-2002, 04:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LC3:</font><hr> /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif The Mirror System makes perfect sense. I'm going try that tomorrow, only because it's too late for me to try it today. Thanks, 9 Ball Girl and ddb182.
Thanks to everybody else too. Bluewolf, I was surprised to read that you find kicks easier than banks. I can kick well enough to make safeties, avoid fouls, and set up balls in one-pocket, but pocketing anything other than "gimme balls" only happens on my best days. <hr /></blockquote>
before i got on this forum, i was doing this one rail kick shot to get my ball in. i did not even know what it was called, just that it was one of my favorite shots. Then i started experimenting with the two rails for position. And I have done some three rail kicks for safety. For some reason, banks are hard for me. So far, I only have two in my arsenal.
I think a diamond system would help me with all of this but I need it explained real simple. a couple people have tried, but it just seemed too complicated at the time.
11-26-2002, 04:15 PM
I think I need to read Jeanette's book to understand all of this . What is the name of her book?
11-26-2002, 05:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> I think I need to read Jeanette's book to understand all of this . What is the name of her book?
blu <hr /></blockquote>
Jeanette Lee's book is called 'The Black Widow's guide to Killer Pool'
Now overall it's a good inspirational book because it covers her rise in 5 years from a waitress to the best but for technical info it is a bit basic and limited. The section on Banks is decent enough, really it just shows the mirror system and a formula for Banking which is the same one found here
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