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nAz
11-27-2002, 01:37 PM
what do you guy/gals pay for APA membership and weekly dues?
in Brooklyn the APA charges $21 member fee and $7 for every week you play. not including table time

rackmup
11-27-2002, 01:43 PM
DFW APA:

$20.00 yearly membership fee
$6.00 weekly dues.

Regards,

Ken

Ludba
11-27-2002, 01:43 PM
In austin, tx it's $20 membership and $5 per game (9-ball and/or 8-ball) per week.

=k=
11-27-2002, 02:39 PM
phoenix area 20.00 yearly dues 6.00 wk due.. although we could have went to 7.00 for a higher pay out.. k

stickman
11-27-2002, 03:15 PM
Southeast Kansas:

$20.00 yearly membership fee
$6.00 weekly dues.

bluewolf
11-27-2002, 03:24 PM
$20 yearly membership fee. 1 hr free time practice before practice. $7/wk only if you play. There is no additional table time and if you dont play, then you got that free hour to practice.

This is APA 8-ball league at Champions in Rockville, Md. i havent played the 9-ball apa so nothing to say bout that.

Laura

ChrisW
11-27-2002, 04:11 PM
E. Washington
$25 yearly
$5 weekly + Quarters

WaltVA
11-28-2002, 12:22 AM
Tidewater Virginia - $20 membership, $6/week.

Walt in VA

Scott Lee
11-29-2002, 01:40 PM
Chris...The APA designates $20 as the annual membership fee. Anything extra is going into the L.O.'s pocket! $5 extra, imo, is way out of line, unless they are providing something extra for the players (i.e.: special tournaments, added $$$, pay-back for league play, etc.)! For example, I believe the Spokane APA L.O. has appx. 150+ teams in his area. That means that 150 x 8 = 1200 members x $5 = an extra $6000/yr. in his/her pocket! That makes for a VERY nice vacation somewhere! LOL JMO

Scott Lee ~ former APA L.O.

nAz
11-29-2002, 02:07 PM
LO here told me he should have made it $10 a week since it so much work.
Im like what work????? lol j/k he did do a lot to get it going, but i cant see anyone paying $10 a week even in NY.

Maybe i should start a Brooklyn BCA league hmmm

What do you guy/gals pay for BCA Membership and dues?

9 Ball Girl
11-29-2002, 02:32 PM
When I played in the BCA league, I paid $60 for the year. There were no weekly payments.

BLACKHEART
11-29-2002, 03:47 PM
Sometimes the higher weekly fee has a portion going towards a fund that helps pay for the qualifying teams trip to Vegas or higher level play...JER

Scott Lee
11-29-2002, 10:25 PM
Jerry...Not SO! At $5 a week per player, there is $1 allocated toward the fund to send teams to the nationals, coming out of the weekly fees. This is WAY over that, and doesn't concern weekly fees. It is an extra add-on that the L.O. is adding into the annual membership fee. It is pure profit, unless, like I said, they are doing something extra for the players. I hate to see L.O.'s taking advantage of their players. I know the Spokane L.O. quite well (if it is still the same guy as 10 yrs ago), and it doesn't seem likely that he would do that for no reason, other than to fill his pockets. However, stranger things have happened! LOL

Scott

ChrisW
12-02-2002, 10:05 AM
Spokane has only had 1 LO so its the same person.
It has been awhile since I knew where all of the fees went.
I can't say for sure how the fees are allocated. We do get some money paid back to the teams but to get any "real" money back you have to do well in the yearly league playoffs.
I have a lot of respect for my LO for how he does business and don't think he would simply raise the membership simply because he could.

Chris

SpiderMan
12-02-2002, 11:09 AM
I think we pay $20 a year in Dallas. The weekly dues are usually covered by the sponsoring establishment's owner, who writes a monthly check to the LO.

Coin tables in Dallas are mostly $1 a game! Spent the past weekend in Memphis and it was only half that!

SpiderMan

nAz
12-02-2002, 03:26 PM
Table time here ranges from 1.50 - 2.00
Damn I can remember when cost a quater on a 7 ft. table17 years ago /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Rod
12-02-2002, 03:44 PM
nAz, amazingly there is a nice bar 4 blocks from my house, well that's not amazing. What is amazing they have a quarter table! I haven't been in there for over a year. Most tables here are 50 cents to 75 cents. Some of the upscale places can get a little higher. Those places in your area must pay a premium for there real estate.

nAz
12-02-2002, 04:07 PM
ye they pay lot in NYC.
The NY Mob likes to take you for all they can around here!
c what they try to do to Tony Sopranos? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
12-02-2002, 07:41 PM
Marty,

So Memphis has become a 4 bit pool town?

Scott Lee
12-03-2002, 02:10 AM
Chris...I'll tell it like it is! An APA L.O. should NET in his pocket $5.00 per team per week. This after paying everything, including money set aside for teams to go to Vegas, and trophies (etc) for local playoffs. I always was VERY upfront with my players. I asked them pointblank, "Is it worth to you, to pay me $1.00 a week for me to provide you with a fun, fair environment in which to play league pool in?" The answer was always unequivicably YES!

I know your L.O. pretty well also, and I agree that it is unlikely that he would be ripping off the players. Perhaps he is taking that extra $5/player, on the annual membership fee, and adding it to City Cups, and other tournaments, which is certainly legitimate. Could that be the case? If so, you guys should have some pretty good payouts in your annual end of session meets. I know for a fact that he has special tournaments for team captains, and that "king of the hill" tourney for all the 7's! BTW, did you get the private message I sent you?

Scott Lee

Alfie
12-03-2002, 05:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> I'll tell it like it is! An APA L.O. should NET in his pocket $5.00 per team per week. This after paying everything, including money set aside for teams to go to Vegas, and trophies (etc) for local playoffs. <hr /></blockquote> How much does the national office get from each team each week?

SpiderMan
12-03-2002, 09:54 AM
Tom,

In all but one place I played, the coin tables were 50 cents. One night I hit a spot out east on Mendenhall, next to the East End Grill, that was seventy-five.

SpiderMan

9 Ball Girl
12-03-2002, 10:20 AM
The most expensive bar box I've ever played on was during my BCA nights, $1.75! The least expensive was $1.00.

ChrisW
12-03-2002, 12:36 PM
Yes we do have a pretty good "City Cup" and Captain's tournaments. The "king of the hill" or "Best of the best" we call it is for top shooters overall not just for 7's.
I wish there were 7's tournaments. He tried it once about 4 years ago and there was about 3 of us that showed up.
Chris

SpiderMan
12-03-2002, 01:02 PM
Pretty amazing. If that coin box takes quarters, then it must be as wide as a serving tray (or a Texas belt buckle). $1.00 is currently the highest I've paid, but unfortunately most of the DFW-area boxes are up there.

As I mentioned, most are still 50 cents in the Memphis area.

SpiderMan

Scott Lee
12-04-2002, 01:04 PM
Alfie...APA League Operators pay a 20% 'royalty' of the weekly team fees assessed and collected. They are required to send in a check in that amount EVERY WEEK! LOL Talk about money in the bank! They (national office) get ALL of the $20 annual membership dues...which amounts to appx. $4,000,000 a year (and this is WITHOUT the weekly royalties). For that you'd have to add another $90-$100,000 PER WEEK into the home office coffers! LOL Now you know one reason why APA tries to get all their L.O.'s to run league play 42 weeks a year (naturally this is for the profit motive for the league operator too!). Seems like they could EASILY up the ante in the national tournaments they advertise as "$1,000,000 ADDED"! Tell you one thing for CERTAIN...Terry Bell and Larry Hubbart have VERY nice homes on a lake outside St. Louis (not that they haven't earned them! LOL).

Scott Lee

nAz
12-04-2002, 01:54 PM
Is there a way for a regular member of the APA to find out how much Money the upper echelon is raking in?
im just curious, but i would love to see their finacial records lol

Wally_in_Cincy
12-04-2002, 01:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Alfie...APA League Operators pay a 20% 'royalty' of the weekly team fees assessed and collected. They are required to send in a check in that amount EVERY WEEK! LOL Talk about money in the bank! They (national office) get ALL of the $20 annual membership dues...which amounts to appx. $4,000,000 a year (and this is WITHOUT the weekly royalties). For that you'd have to add another $90-$100,000 PER WEEK into the home office coffers! LOL Now you know one reason why APA tries to get all their L.O.'s to run league play 42 weeks a year (naturally this is for the profit motive for the league operator too!). Seems like they could EASILY up the ante in the national tournaments they advertise as "$1,000,000 ADDED"! Tell you one thing for CERTAIN...Terry Bell and Larry Hubbart have VERY nice homes on a lake outside St. Louis (not that they haven't earned them! LOL).

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, I would say they definitely earned them. They had a good idea and executed it well.

APA is claiming 200,000 members. I wonder how many are "active members" i.e. how many members paid their dues this year?

Scott Lee
12-04-2002, 11:36 PM
naz...Nope, but do the math! $6-$8 million coming in, and only 1 million going out. Add expenses for running events, salaries, etc,...be GENEROUS and say it is another 2 million. Take a million for taxes, and the big dogs are pulling in 2-3 million profit! Not a bad bizness! LOL

Scott Lee
12-04-2002, 11:44 PM
Wally...those are current numbers, with ALL paid members.

Scott

cuechick
12-05-2002, 09:53 AM
Hey Naz &amp; everyone else,
what a lot of people don't know or haven't mentioned, is that the APA is a franchise. it is like buying a Burger King, these operators do not work for the APA but for them selves and have put out a big investment.
It IS a lot of work too, imagine logging in all those score sheets, every inning, every match, picking up, dropping off, fielding questions, complaints, organizing singles events, recruiting new teams....? Have you ever actually kept score?And it is all non stop recruiting to build a new league such as the Brooklyn one.
In Manhattan the dues was and still is just 20.00 a week, though the LO now charges a 20.00 sign up fee per team per season. He knew if he tried to raise the weekly dues people would give him too much s*%t. Even though his was way below the newer fees of 35.00.
No one should work for free, it may be a pastime for you but it is thier job. Ross is a good guy and I do not envy him his position. It is amazing to me how so many players show up every week and do not consider all that is involved in keeping the clock running. As a Captain I had to call every player, pick up the sheets, drop them off, call about any problems...players just tookit all for granted. It was funny for me to see another take the reins and be shocked at the work involved.
LO are the 'Captains' of hundreds of teams!! As they say on MTV "You think you KNOW, but you have NO idea...." /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Have fun Naz and everyone else in any league but maybe take a mintute to really stop and THINK...'what work?' I'd love for you to be a league operator for a day!
Okay, I'm done preaching.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
cuechick

nAz
12-05-2002, 10:47 AM
CueChick i Know Ross and i know how much Hard work he does, its not easy to build up a league in Brooklyn from scratch even with backing from APA. Oh and all the constant complains from players over ratings never ends.

Im glad he is doing it cause it brings out a lot of new players to my Buddy ACs PH and to bunch of local bars in my area, Im just curious how much $$ is generated, reinvested in the league and pocketed through out the APA league.

Ross is not a stupid man he would not be doing this unless he could make a decent living, and there is nothing wrong with that /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif hehehe i just need to stop bothering him, i always tell him that im gonna start a BCA league in Brooklyn hahaha drives him nutz /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

By the are you still playing in the APA?

cuechick
12-05-2002, 11:58 AM
I just moved south but am still on the roster of brooklyn team, I will join a team here in January when the new season begins...I was only responing to your own questions, as far as how much does the APA genorate I assume they make their money off the franchise sale and I guess possilbly royalties according to another post.
It wasn't till my team made it to Vegas and I spoke to other teams that I saw that every league is run differently. Not every league pays their way to Vegas or their team entry fee when they get there, as ours did (Manahttan) at the time...

SpiderMan
12-06-2002, 09:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> naz...Nope, but do the math! $6-$8 million coming in, and only 1 million going out<hr /></blockquote>

Scott,

I'd make that more like only a half million going out. Remember, all of the APA's prizes are inflated 100% by half being in "merchandise value".

For example, one of my Dallas friends won (I think) $4,000 for his 3rd-place finish at nationals. But he only got $2,000. The rest of his money was in "merchandise value", ie he got a cue, case, and a bunch of electronics "valued" at a high MSRP. I think they took a publicity picture of him holding a big carboard check for full value, though.

I suspect that much of the prize merchandise is donated or obtained at deep discounts, at least that's how it would be gotten by a shrewd businessperson.

SpiderMan

Scott Lee
12-07-2002, 02:20 AM
Spiderman...Yep, you're right! I forgot about that!...and the "merchandise thing" goes all the way to 1st Place too!

Scott

Alfie
12-07-2002, 08:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> [snip reply] <hr /></blockquote> Thanks, Scott.