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rackmup
11-27-2002, 02:16 PM
In the first installment, we batted around the topics of:

When this happens (sitting out) to you, what do you do? Do you go home or stay? Get mad or let it go?
How do you feel when your Captain sits you for the night and you think you should be playing?
Do you mind sitting or do you think you should play every week?
If you knew ahead of time that you weren't going to be on the night's playing roster, would you stay home?

Let's dig a little deeper...which league do you play in? And, do you play in multiple league formats?

I'll start.

I play in a BCA "bar table" traveling league on Sunday afternoons, A BCA league on Sunday night's that is 'in house' and plays on 8' footers and finally, I play on an APA team on Monday nights that plays primarilly on 8' footers.

I dislike the Sunday afternoon league because the equipment varies greatly from place-to-place and the teams aren't handicapped and some of them are "stacked" so badly, we don't have a chance of winning.

The Sunday evening league is handicapped, although I have no idea how it works (it is more of a team handicap than it is an individual handicap) and I enjoy this league a lot. The competition is more even and it's simply fun.

The APA league team I play on is a new team for me. I've been there for two weeks now but have known the team members for several months. They have some good players and some not-so-good players but then, that is what you need on an APA team. I look forward to playing with these guys and the league seems to be of mostly equally talented players with a few 'standouts'.

Do you play in the APA?

TAP?

A BCA structured league?

How do you feel about a league that allows 'slop'?

Do you agree with your league's handicapping methods?

What is the most ridiculous rule you feel your league enforces (i.e., marking your pocket to indicate where you are going to pot the 8 rather than simply calling it)?

We all complain about various aspects of our respective leagues but do we do anything about it? Do you serve as an Operator of a league? Do you own a league franchise? Do you serve on a rules or handicapping committee?

Or do you just complain?

Regards,

Ken

Kato
11-27-2002, 02:44 PM
Non handicapped 8 ball league on Wednesday nights. Everyone can play. We travel and equipment varies. I do happen to play with a great group of guys that I look forward to seeing every week. We win together, we lose together, we have fun together. No sandbagging, ever. No reason.

Kato

stickman
11-27-2002, 03:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr>Do you play in the APA?


TAP?


A BCA structured league?


How do you feel about a league that allows 'slop'?


Do you agree with your league's handicapping methods?


What is the most ridiculous rule you feel your league enforces (i.e., marking your pocket to indicate where you are going to pot the 8 rather than simply calling it)?

We all complain about various aspects of our respective leagues but do we do anything about it? Do you serve as an Operator of a league? Do you own a league franchise? Do you serve on a rules or handicapping committee?<hr /></blockquote>

I play APA 9ball on Monday nights, and APA 8ball on Thursday nights. I'm okay with slop. I don't slop very many balls in at all, and blush on the rare occassions that I do. Not always, but most of the time, the better player will win anyway. The handicapping system works if people don't deliberately circumvent it. I'm okay with that also. I realize that I can't control what others do, and not everyone has my ethics. I just play my own game and enjoy myself.

The mark your pocket rule in 8ball is alright, once you get used to it.

Overall, I'm happy playing, despite the faults.

smfsrca
11-27-2002, 04:00 PM
I ran a BCA league for 2 years. In the second year it was the biggest BCA league in California. Our team carried the state flag in the opening ceromony at Las Vegas. So much for credentials.

On league rules - What ever your rules are make sure everyone knows and has a copy available. If you are the league operator it is your job to know those rules well and stick by them. Don't be arbitrary. Don't say you play by a particular set of rules when you don't even know what the rules are. If you write your own rules try to avoid controversy. Write your rules so they encompass the spirit of the game and don't simply create an arbitrary technicality. For example, if you require marking of pockets also allow coaching to remind a player to mark the pocket.

On league politics - As a league operator you can't avoid politics because the organization of people and procedures is political. Keep your politics confined to a need to know basis. Most players just want to play, they don't want to be involved in the process of runnning a league. If you make playing a burden they simply won't come back and your ranks will diminish and eventually dissolve. Remember, as a league operator you probably play all the time. For most league players this is there one night out, don't ruin it for them.

On handicapping - No handicapping system is free of controversy. There are only some that are less so than others. If the majority of your players are satisfied with the handicap than you are doing good. Try to slightly favor the weaker players over the stronger so the stronger players don't become apathetic. For instance, if 2 teams play exactly their averages the weaker team should win the night.

I suppose I could go on but I need to go practice.
Steve

9 Ball Girl
11-27-2002, 04:03 PM
Hi Ken!

On Monday nights I play on a traveling APA 8 ball team. Equipment varies but that's part of the charm of playing on barboxes.

Tuesday nights I play on a non traveling APA 8 ball team. We play on 9 footers.

That's it for now but in the Spring, I'll be back in action:

Monday and Tuesdays will be the APA teams I mentioned above, probably anyway. Wednesdays I'll probably join my BCA 8 ball team again, barboxes. Thursdays I'll probably start playing in the 9 ball tourney again, 9 footers. And I might just have to join the TriState Tour (9 ball, 8 ball, 14.1) for the weekends, and later on, NEWT. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ChrisW
11-27-2002, 04:24 PM
Monday: In-house bca 8-ball with handicap.
I like playing on nice tables every week
the handicap is not really much of a factor since
its a 4 person team round robin format.

Tuesday: APA 9-ball. Don't like some of the bars and tables.
9-ball slop doesn't bother me.
biggest APA gripe is all the damn bickering.

Thursday: Local traveling 8-ball. My favorite.
No handicap.
Very little whinning.
call pocket.
FOUL ON ALL BALLS. So tuck in your shirt!
4 person team with round robin.
All cash goes back to the players.

Chris___(if I wasn't happy with a league I wouldn't play in it)

Tom_In_Cincy
11-27-2002, 04:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> In the first installment, we batted around the topics of:

Do you play in the APA? <font color="red">Yes.. I quit at a SL7 in 1998 </font color>

TAP? <font color="red"> Never played in this league </font color>

A BCA structured league? <font color="red">Quit playing in BCA 8 ball league last year, quit playing in a BCA 9 ball league 2 years ago </font color>

How do you feel about a league that allows 'slop'? <font color="red"> Slop is a term used by players that usually lose, if the rule is 'slop' and you don't like it, don't play, its that simple </font color>

Do you agree with your league's handicapping methods? <font color="red"> always did APA and BCA.. handicap methods are applied the same to everyone.. but if you have a league of 10 teams and everyone of those teams have only the highest handicap of 5.. most of those 5s will end up being 7s. Are they really a 7? </font color>

What is the most ridiculous rule you feel your league enforces (i.e., marking your pocket to indicate where you are going to pot the 8 rather than simply calling it)?
<font color="red">Letting beginners play. There ought to be a separate division for beginners, intermediate and advanced players. </font color>

We all complain about various aspects of our respective leagues but do we do anything about it? <font color="red">I did voice my opinions, and nothing was done </font color>

Do you serve as an Operator of a league? <font color="red"> Never did, but always thought I could do a better job of it than the current league Operators. </font color>

Do you own a league franchise? <font color="red"> no, but TAP has contacted me to run one in Cincy</font color>

Do you serve on a rules or handicapping committee? <font color="red"> never did.. and I asked to, but the positions were already filled</font color>

Or do you just complain? <font color="red"> Never complained.. just offered my opinions </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

jbullerjr
11-27-2002, 11:01 PM
Ken,

I have played in BCA leagues since '94.

I have never played in the APA.

First year of leage play was on Steve Herberts'(Abear) team.

We were in the C handicap division, second year B Masters, third year A Masters. This was the SWEL league.
Although not a big fan of handicaps, they really did help us out in the earlier years.

We have played in a Sunday afternoon, BCA, traveling, bar league for the past 4 years.

My team has remained pretty much the same for the last 5 years. Well, out of the 8 we have, 5 have been here for 5+ years.

I can't think of a silly rule that is enforced by my league.

I have not replied to your other post, so here are some thoughts on it.

We are first an foremost a team. We all want to win and are willing to pull ourselves or sit out if we are not playing well.
Our captin has a schedule that allows everyone a chance to play an equal/or as close to amount of weeks.
Most of my players will show up even if they are not scheduled to play (keep score, cheerlead, fill in for someone who is having a bad day, etc...).

It is the team work that gets us success, we have won our finals 3 out of the last 4 years(3rd place last year).

J.

WaltVA
11-28-2002, 12:59 AM
I have played on a sucession of APA 8-ball teams over the last 10 years; currently play 8-ball Tuesday and Wednesdays. Invited to join a Monday night APA 9-ball team about a year ago,and am enjoying it. Have never played TAP or BCA formats.

Don't really have a problem with the slop rules; don't seem to be a factor in most higher-level matches. Handicapping seems to work out fairly well. There are one or two teams who are known to try to sandbag, but most other captains know them and will write up a new player to get them to their correct S/L quickly. The L/O and the handicap review committee will also quietly take a look at new players.

Most rules seem OK once new players get used to them.

Have been a team captain, division rep, served on the Board of Governors, protest and handicap committees. Am a certified referee and usually volunteer to work our end-of-session tournaments. Our L/O is generally approachable about potential problems and open to suggestions for improving the league.

Walt in VA

11-28-2002, 04:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> In the first installment, we batted around the topics of:

When this happens (sitting out) to you, what do you do? Do you go home or stay? Get mad or let it go?
How do you feel when your Captain sits you for the night and you think you should be playing?
Do you mind sitting or do you think you should play every week?
If you knew ahead of time that you weren't going to be on the night's playing roster, would you stay home?

Let's dig a little deeper...which league do you play in? And, do you play in multiple league formats?

I'll start.

I play in a BCA "bar table" traveling league on Sunday afternoons, A BCA league on Sunday night's that is 'in house' and plays on 8' footers and finally, I play on an APA team on Monday nights that plays primarilly on 8' footers.

I dislike the Sunday afternoon league because the equipment varies greatly from place-to-place and the teams aren't handicapped and some of them are "stacked" so badly, we don't have a chance of winning.

The Sunday evening league is handicapped, although I have no idea how it works (it is more of a team handicap than it is an individual handicap) and I enjoy this league a lot. The competition is more even and it's simply fun.

The APA league team I play on is a new team for me. I've been there for two weeks now but have known the team members for several months. They have some good players and some not-so-good players but then, that is what you need on an APA team. I look forward to playing with these guys and the league seems to be of mostly equally talented players with a few 'standouts'.

Do you play in the APA?

TAP?

A BCA structured league?

How do you feel about a league that allows 'slop'?

Do you agree with your league's handicapping methods?

What is the most ridiculous rule you feel your league enforces (i.e., marking your pocket to indicate where you are going to pot the 8 rather than simply calling it)?

We all complain about various aspects of our respective leagues but do we do anything about it? Do you serve as an Operator of a league? Do you own a league franchise? Do you serve on a rules or handicapping committee?

Or do you just complain?

Regards,

Ken <hr /></blockquote>

I play on a traveling, non-handicapped 8-ball league. They go generally by "Vegas rules" with a few exceptions.. 8-ball scratch is a loss, and we play ANY fouls, not just cueball fouls.. but we don't have to mark the 8-ball.. just call it.

I am on one of the "stacked" teams I guess, but there isn't any sandbagging, and anyone can play on any team, and have as many good players as they want.. so we do.

It's alot of fun.. but this game, like any other game, is more fun if you are winning. If you aren't, then either figure out a way to win, or just accept losing. I've heard there is alot of sandbagging in the APA. I dunno.. If you aren't enjoying leagues, then maybe just play a tournament or two a week instead.

silverbullet
11-28-2002, 07:00 AM
I think leagues are great (despite their faults) to get beginners started and for people who just want a fun night out, once or twice a week. I guess these are the people who are either comfortable with their sl or due to personal circumstances cannot put the time on the table, they would like to.And of course, there are those who like league play and are excellent players.

I like the idea of non-handicapped leagues for the better players. Also if someone is really serious about getting more competition, there are always tournaments around. IMO, this is also a great opportunity to see good players and learn from them.

Laura

cuechick
11-28-2002, 10:33 AM
I have played in APA for the last 6 years and have few complaints. I think it is the best orgainzed league of it's kind and that the handicapp system if done correctly is one of the most accurate systems for judging skill, though no system is perfect and much of it relies on the integrity of the participents. I am a SL-6 and have been priviledge to play on 2 very competitive, bonded teams. I have also played on a few lesser teams; but always approached APA as FUN first.
It is to me a social league, more than a serious competitive league. Not to say I don't take it seriously, I am too competive by nature. But I put my most serious training into indivual tournaments. Though, I think team competition is the best training for that in the end. It always easier to play for yourself than to have the weight of your team on your shoulders...
I am very happy they have an active APA league close to where I will be living in GA. I have already contacted the league operator and knowing I will have an easy way to get to know people when I move there is a terrific benifit of the program (though it feels a little like a blind date!).
As far as rules that seem silly such as marking the pocket, I beleive these rules have delveloped over time for very good reasons. This is 'bar' pool and I can imagine marking the pocket took away any arguments as does 'slop'. I also believe slop is part of they handicapp system, that gives lesser skilled players another, chance, as is lack of choice after pocketing a ball on the break...I do prefer the BCA rules, but understand why the APA does it the way they do.