Banking with English only?

[phil in sofla]

A year or two back, I got Kinnister's tape on spinning in the bank. It's a specialty shot, probably most often used in one-pocket or bank pool. If the object ball is within 1 diamond of any rail, rather than cut the shot a little to get the angle to have it go down that rail to the pocket, you hit it straight into the rail, at a 90 degree angle to it, give it some English, and the (opposite) spin the cue ball induces on the object ball 'turns' the object ball off the rail, to a line to make that bank. Easy to do, works great, and comes in handy at times. If for no other reason, it is simply easy to hit that OB full to the rail, easy to see the center point of the OB opposite the rail you'll hit it into.

That is similar to many kick systems, whereby you go straight into the rail, and get your line off it with varying amounts of English on the cue ball.

Now I'm looking at 'Welcome to the Bank!,' a series of 3 or 4 tapes describing a similar concept of banking, except it isn't limited to an object ball within 1 diamond of the rail, but wherever it might be on the table.

To shoot it back about a diamond, as in the example I already learned, requires the stroke they call '1st gear.' To shoot it back 2 diamonds requires '2nd gear,' obviously, more spin. They have a 3rd and 4th gear as well, where you cue way to the side of the cue ball (and low).

I'm trying to decide if I need to learn this and have it in my arsenal, just in case the situation comes up, but I think it mainly is a gimmick, assuming you have a reliable banking technique already that works well (I do). Except for this claim-- that the system has a double bank method built in, by going 1 gear less than you'd need to bank it across.

Example: if you're shooting straight into the rail close to the side pocket, to bank to the opposite corner, you'd need 4th gear (throwing it 4 diamonds long). To instead have it double bank, to the corner opposite that corner, you'd use 3rd gear. The big running English off the first rail turns to hold up reverse English on the second rail, making the line for the double bank.

Now THAT seems like a very good tool to have indeed. But to learn to bank that way only so as to use the minor application for double banking seems a bit of overkill.

Have you seen/used this concept? Is it anything you use with regularity? (The first elementary kind of spinnig in the bank DOES come up for me fairly regularly).

[stickman]

I haven't seen the tape, but I seldom shoot a bank without english on it. I like to shoot straight on and use english to bring the object ball off the rail at the desired angle. Sometimes I use a combination of cut and english. This is nothing I've been taught, I just figured it out on my own, long ago. Once I began understanding how english affected the angle off the rail of the object ball, I began using it more than cut, and in combination with cut. I shoot banks more by feel than anything.

[Tom_In_Cincy]

I learned that if the angle is bigger than normal.. to use outside english. If the angle is smaller, inside english.

I also had the pleasure of being part of a group of players that were given a 3 hour 'banking clinic' by John Brumback. John agreed about the above statement but taught another way to make banks more accurate. He recommends inside english on lots of shots.

[phil in sofla]

I generally try to have the object ball traveling on a true equal in/equal out line, and use outside bottom English to get the ball off the rail true.

Only rarely would I instead shorten it up by a hard hit and/or inside English, if shape or intervening balls made that necessary, and I don't lengthen it out using the opposite idea at all.

Yet I have heard it claimed that for off angle banks, it is best advised that you use the angle as it is, and make the shot work with English and stroke, which would then be by feel on that stroke.