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12-05-2002, 09:21 PM
I have been playing pool for basically my entire life (on and off so I am really not a great player) and I usually can get some pretty tuff angled shots but I would like to not be in that position. My problem is no matter how hard I try I can't seem to have control over the cue balls position. So basically I'm asking for any tips as what I need to do to get my control down.

12-05-2002, 10:35 PM
Cool Guy,
The best practice tape I have seen to practice position is Robt,Byrnes " POWER POOL WORKOUT" VOL,5. It has great drills for practicing position. You'll shoot like a Pro in no time.
Jack

Perk
12-06-2002, 08:05 AM
Drills can help.....or modify them to your liking...set up the same shot over and over and try to get the cue to a spot on the table each time. Learning different ways to do it. The biggest problem with people just learning how to move the rock is that they wait till they got a tuff shot and then try to move to get position. On EVERY shot you should know or move the CB to a spot, even if a ball is dead in a pocket. This will help you hopefully not get into trouble where you will need an extreme shot to get the CB where you want it.

Alot of times, I toss 2 square napkins on the table. Then I toss a few balls out there, and make the shots trying to get the cue ball to stop ON the napkin. This helps with speed and angles, as well as your stroke consistency. HTH

12-06-2002, 08:15 AM
Why don't you just try practicing with the cue ball....
Here is what I mean by that...I find (for myself anyway) that when I miss shape, it is usually I did not hit where I wanted to on the cue ball. I may have pocketed the ball, but through either lack of stroke or a slight mishit on the cue ball, I don't get the desired shape I wanted. I think if your pocketing balls, your probably in the same boat.....

I can not remember who told me about this drill...(It may have been some Joe Bloe I ran into somewhere) but it is an excellent drill....

Useing only the cue ball, start by shooting the spot shot. roll the cue ball from the spot to the end rail (center diamond) and back over the spot using. center, top, and bottom. then move on to right and left english...(one tip 1.5 tips etc) note how far right or left the ball moves...then pick a spot (a diamond or pocket)and have the ball return to that position... I think you will find it hard to hit your spot at first, but you will lern to "controle" the amount of english. After you master that, move on to two rail, three rail postion rolls... always have a "spot" your trying to finish at and use center, top, bottom, right and left english. there are millions of "rolls" to create.

After a while switch back and forth shooting normal shots and using just the cue ball...I am pretty sure you will notice improved cue ball controle....

BTW.... A "shot" you can use to see if you are hitting where you think your are on the cue ball, is place a ball just past the side pocket close to the rail. place the cue on the spot (opposit end of the object ball) shoot the shot using center english.....medium stroke...the cue ball should come straight off of the rail....If the cue goes forward or back off the rail...your probably mis-hitting the cue ball. try it from both sides...You might find your ok on one side but off on the other...

Chris Cass
12-06-2002, 08:28 AM
Hey cool_guy,

You've got some really good advice so far. All that has extreme amount of value. I would like to suggest you try to learn one pocket. As Perk said, the shot's not over because you make the ob. That's only the middle. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~can have whitey on a string. Also, been known to let him out once in awhile. I live in fear of Murphy's Law and that's not a bad thing when playing.

randyg
12-06-2002, 08:42 AM
Hey Cool Guy: Whenever students explain to me the same senerio you are in, this is the procedure I use with them.

Before drills, tapes and practice, lets look at your cuestick movement. What really controls the cueball? The cue stick. What controls the cuestick? Of course, we do.

There are only three things that we have to do to become a great player. First and foremost, our job in pool is to deliver an excellerating cuestick to a predetermined point on the cueball, and do it all the time. Let's run down a check list.

1. Does your bridge stay firm? (Yes)
2. Does your stance get in the way of your stroke? (No)
3. Does your griphand change pressure during your stroke? (No)
4. Does your elbow move at all? (No)
5. Does your cuetip still point directly at your
initial target after the stroke? (Yes)

After you have check each one of these items out, and you are positive that you are ok, then we can eliminate cuestick movement as your problem. Then we move on to the next set of check lists.

When performing this checklist, an Elephant Cueball is a great help.

Sorry to ramble on, hope something might be of help......randyg

silverbullet
12-06-2002, 09:12 AM
Well, i just love using the rails. i know that there is a lot more to it, but I am still in the fun stage. I am serious too but I want to have fun seriously.

For me, I can get okay position with using the rails (one or two) and stroke speed. If I mess up, it is usually my stroke speed, assuming my stroke met all of randy gs tests. I know are a lot of more complicated stuff like english and three rail position shot, but i aint there yet.then jumps and masses i dont know how to do either.

good luck on your quest. maybe a good instructor would help.lots of really good pool players get good help from them.

Laura

Alfie
12-06-2002, 11:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr> Hey Cool Guy: Whenever students explain to me the same senerio you are in, this is the procedure I use with them.

Before drills, tapes and practice, lets look at your cuestick movement. What really controls the cueball? The cue stick. What controls the cuestick? Of course, we do.

There are only three things that we have to do to become a great player. First and foremost, our job in pool is to deliver an excellerating cuestick to a predetermined point on the cueball, and do it all the time. Let's run down a check list.

1. Does your bridge stay firm? (Yes)
2. Does your stance get in the way of your stroke? (No)
3. Does your griphand change pressure during your stroke? (No)
4. Does your elbow move at all? (No)
5. Does your cuetip still point directly at your
initial target after the stroke? (Yes)

After you have check each one of these items out, and you are positive that you are ok, then we can eliminate cuestick movement as your problem. Then we move on to the next set of check lists.

When performing this checklist, an Elephant Cueball is a great help.

Sorry to ramble on, hope something might be of help......randyg <hr /></blockquote> Hey Randy, what is on the next set of checklists?

Scott Lee
12-06-2002, 11:32 AM
cool_guy...Randy G's advice was the best! In order for drills to have any bearing, you must FIRST know what a stroke is, and how to fix yours, if it is not "perfect"!
My advice: Seek out a BCA certified instructor and get a "stroke lesson". In 22 years of teaching I have run across many students(of all ages) who, like yourself, have been playing most of their lives...but STILL don't really know what a stroke is. The "perfect" stroke is what builds consistency in being able to hit the CB equally well, regardless of the difficulty of the shot, or the speed of the stroke! When you build consistency into your stroke, your confidence rises at the same rate...because you are then able to DEPEND on your stroke to deliver whatever you need. But until you HAVE this stroke, doubt is always creeping into your mind, about whether or not you can "call up" the needed stroke. This is equally true for pocketing the OB, as well as controlling the CB!

Scott Lee

Wally_in_Cincy
12-06-2002, 12:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Alfie:</font><hr>
Hey Randy, what is on the next set of checklists? <hr /></blockquote>

Chris Cass
12-06-2002, 12:40 PM
Hey Randy,

You don't know how good it makes me feel to see one of your posts again. Thanks.

Best Regards,

C.C.~~everything you've said is totally true. can't wait to see you again in Vegas next yr. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

12-06-2002, 01:20 PM
thanks for all the awesome tips. I try them out later on probably.

12-06-2002, 04:18 PM
***Obligatory Disclaimer***
I'm not any kind of instructor, nor do I claim to be.
The following contains observations and/or opinions that
may not agree with those of anybody else.
***End of Disclaimer***
I pretty much agree with what everybody has said.
Beyond solid fundamentals, I second the vote for Robert Byrne, if for no other reason, I learned a lot from his "Standard Book of Pool and Billiards". It does a great job of explaining the physics of the game, and the effects of spin, speed, etc... You might even want to get volumes one and two of his video series to go along with the book, though I've only seen #2 and it didn't seem to get to the level that I recall in the book.
In addition to learning and understanding the physics behind the motions, experiment with them so you can get a feel for how the balls reacts. I don't necessarily mean by playing a game, or even with object balls at times. Start by just bouncing the cueball off the rail. A common test for a straight stroke is to shoot the cueball straight from the head of the table to the foot rail. If the cueball consistently comes back and hits your cue's tip, you're shooting pretty straight. Once you've got that down, start putting spin on the cueball and watch how it reacts when it comes off the cushion vs. a center hit with different speeds. Run the cueball off the long rail at an angle and watch how it almost seems to speed up when you use outside, or "running" english, and opens up the angle. Watch how using inside, or "reverse" english, makes the cueball come off the rail at a sharper angle, with much less speed. Watch how speed also changes the angles and that higher speeds can reduce the effects of spin. Finally, learn how to combine the two (spin and speed) to get the cueball to go where you want.
When shooting object balls, start with straight in shots. Work on making the cueball stop dead after contact, either with a firm center hit or a slight draw, depending on the distance of the shot and the speed required. Then work on consistent follow and draw to various distances. In reality, for position you rarely want straight in shots, what you want is angles. Having an angle gives you an opportunity to move the cueball around the table whereas straight in is, well... straight in. For cut shots, imagine the cueball and the object ball frozen in time at the moment of contact. Draw an imaginary line through the centers of the two balls, and then draw another imaginary line perpindicular to the first at the point the two balls are touching each other. Basically, that second line is the line that the cueball will follow after striking the object ball. I say basically, because there are a variety of factors that will affect how the cueball moves after hitting the object ball. If the cueball is to follow that line, it pretty much has to be sliding (no top or bottom spin) at the moment of contact. Top spin will make the cueball path bend forward of the line. Even natural forward roll will make the path bend forward ever so slightly, depending on the speed of the hit and the angle. Backspin will draw the cueball back away from the line. How hard the cueball is hit will determine how far it will travel along the line before spin takes over. A somewhat softer hit will allow the cueball to respond sooner, thereby increasing the curve off the line, while a harder hit will cause the cueball to travel further along the line before spin can take over and change the cueball's course. Obviously, these are just some of the basic premises of moving the cueball; there are many nuances and infinite variables that come into play. All this depends on the angle, the speed of the shot, and the amount of spin used. The trick is being able to use them together as one cohesive element. Practice it enough, and you'll start putting the cueball where you need it. Keep in mind however, that speed control is the key to position play much more often than spin or english. Take a look at people who have good cueball control; they rarely use what you'd call a "hard" hit. It's normally somewhere between a touch and a tap, and maybe sometimes firm, but never is it hard. These players put the cueball anywhere they need it by using a combination of speed, angles and english, not brute strength. Take an objective look at your shooting, and remember, it's cueball control.
Hope some of this helps!
Chris

randyg
12-06-2002, 04:49 PM
CHRIS: Pool School is booked solid. Don't have a lot of time to post, just lurk. Get well and Happy Holidays to you and your great family....randyg

randyg
12-06-2002, 04:51 PM
Well Wally, that's what Pool School is all about. Happy Holidays....randyg

Chris Cass
12-06-2002, 08:04 PM
No doubt. I imagine your booked all yr. round. Still, I'll be very disappointed if I don't see you in Vegas next yr. Happy Holidays to you and yours also. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sincerely,

Chris

Wally_in_Cincy
12-07-2002, 10:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr> Well Wally, that's what Pool School is all about. Happy Holidays....randyg <hr /></blockquote>

Well if you're ever within 300 miles of Cincy let me know. I'll be there.

randyg
12-07-2002, 11:00 AM
Wally: I have a Three Day Pool school scheduled into Cleveland. How close is that? Some time this summer. Hope to see you there......Happy Holidays....randyg

Wally_in_Cincy
12-07-2002, 12:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr> Wally: I have a Three Day Pool school scheduled into Cleveland. How close is that? Some time this summer. Hope to see you there......Happy Holidays....randyg <hr /></blockquote>

From: Hamilton, OH 45015 To: Cleveland, OH

The estimated travel time is 3 hours, 35 minutes for 247.69 miles of travel,

<font color="blue"> Close enough. Please email me re: price, schedule etc. wallacephillips@fuse.net . thanx </font color>

Scott Lee
12-08-2002, 01:00 PM
Randy...It never fails to amaze me! Last night I walked into City Pool Hall in Chicago at midnight (they close at 3am on Sat.) just to shoot some pool. The manager sent a fellow over to play some with me, which I heartily agreed to! I asked him what he wanted to play, and he said sraight pool! I could tell after watching just a few shots, that he really had very little CB control, but made no comment about his play! He, however, whined, and insisted it was because the tables he played on usually were MUCH faster than these (CPH has Simonis 860 on GCIV's)!LOL I knew it was not the table, but was his STROKE...or lack thereof. As I was killing him (100-40) I explained that I was a professional instructor, and offered my card. Then we switched to 9-ball, with him thinking that he would fare better. LOL...he lost 11-2! Another case of a guy who THINKS he has a stroke, but doesn't, and doesn't want to take advantage of trying to learn one. I was surprised that he didn't even inquire about a lesson, but I didn't offer, other than to say that I could show him a few pointers. LOL After he left, two others from adjacent tables came over and asked for lesson appointments! Go figure! BTW, I played with this guy for 3 hours! Nice man, but had NO clue! Some people can't see the forest for the trees! One thing that is nice about your pool school, is that the people who are PAYING to come there, come with open minds, anxious to learn! It's always the same with me, for people who SEEK me out for instruction! Rarely do I come across someone like this guy last night! LOL

Scott

randyg
12-08-2002, 08:13 PM
SCOTT: I also find it very amazing. The Advanced to Great players are all looking for help. The Beginners to Intermedates just don't seem to understand. It must be something that we are doing wrong. We have to appeal to them sooner. Practically all other sport figures (Golf, Tennis, etc.)have coaches and instructors from a early career on. All we can do is to keep up the good work.

Yes, our School is a pleasure. 99% of our students are there eager and ready to fine tune their already solid game.

It's actually tough to give any one of our Instructors a day off, they just don't want one. Pool School is fun. Merry Christmas and check your private email....randyg