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BLACKHEART
12-08-2002, 10:29 PM
I hear so much hype here, about the Predator shafts. I gave some thought about this today, after playing in my Sunday afternoon league. After reviewing my win in my mind, I can say that not one shot was missed because of squirt, throw, shaft distortion or deflection. I missed because I'm not as good as I used to be. I don't see as well as I used to. I don't prepare as well as I used to. In other words I can't blame the shaft for any missed shots. I for one don't like the Predetor shafts. I don't like the way they hit. I don't like that they are hard to repair. I don't like that they are made in Taiwan for practically nothing & that they are so expensive. As far as I can decern not one of the better players in any of the leagues( 5 days a week),in my community uses one. In fact very few of the top professional players in the world uses one. If these shafts are so good, why don't the pros use them? If I were a pro & a new shaft could give me an edge to win lots of money....I'd have one..., BUT THEY DON"T...JER (there I've gotten that off of my chest)

nAz
12-08-2002, 10:39 PM
HMMM i know of a couple of pros that use them and like them but would probably never have got one it if not for the Free Shaft given to them by guess who.

i know this guys who loves them. says its an expensive habit, tells me that he didn't buy a shaft he bought a stroke. maybe he is right, to each his own.i wish i thought of it before pred. did lol

I guess its all in peoples mind once they hear about deflection, squirt they start missing shots and they think they need a pred. or red/black dot.
ahh what do i know. all i do its aim and shoot. Like Flako says "sometimes they go in sometimes they dont" /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rod
12-08-2002, 11:55 PM
Jer,
That pretty well sums it up for me also for many of the same reasons. I have no idea on how many pro's use them but surely that percentage is very low. I don't like the price as mentioned and the reasons why. I also don't like the smaller shaft size.

John G
12-09-2002, 12:53 AM
I was trying to think of something to add but you pretty much said it all. And like you I've been doing this a long time. It's a shame that some folks would rather be lied to then face the truth

nAz
12-09-2002, 12:59 AM
Think ill buy a predator.
No really i would buy one if it was under $90 (shaft) $170 is outrages.
id rather Buy lesson with that money and learn to get a smoother stroke

Chris Cass
12-09-2002, 01:13 AM
Hi nAz,

How'd you like a shaft that costs $260.? That's really brutal and although the cuts are greatly apart and they stay straight. Wood is wood, I'm thinking.

Now, if it was a Barry Szamboti cue, I couldn't argue. Even, Dennis Searing shafts are cheaper than that, I'm thinking?

Jon Kucharo let me hit with his. He also had one given to him. I came to the same conclusion. I'm not ready to change my game for a shaft. I don't knock anyone for doing it or liking any piece of new equipment or technology. I'm old school and that's it.

Regards,

C.C.

nAz
12-09-2002, 01:20 AM
$260 OUCH!
i don't know about wood being wood, don't think you can shoot right with a shaft made of really dense wood?

~ naz can shot with a $19 models pool cue (two piece) lol

Chris Cass
12-09-2002, 01:43 AM
Hi nAz,

I can shoot with a broomstick but mention money and the S.W. comes flying out. LOLLOL

Regards,

C.C.~~she's a model?

TonyM
12-09-2002, 01:47 AM
I can tell you with absolute certainty, that they ARE NOT made in Tiawan!

Certainly you are entitled to your opinions, and not everyone would or even should like them. But please don't make statements that are blatently false!

Tony

Cueless Joey
12-09-2002, 01:53 AM
These pros use Pred and are not paid to do so;
Bustamante, Luat, Lining, Pagulayan, Corr and Mika.
Mika shoots with a Capone and 314. He doesn't sell Predator shafts. He just uses it.
Of course there's nothing wrong with regular shafts but they aren't much cheaper than Preds. Preds sell for 180 and are guaranteed . My opinion is you can't get a shaft with the long taper that 314's have and maintain low squirt.

BLACKHEART
12-09-2002, 08:04 AM
TonyM, I don't want to get into an arguement, but THEY ARE MADE IN TAIWAN. Aside from that, being made in Taiwan in itself doesn't make them good or bad. My point was that if they are mede there & made so cheaply, then the sale price is exorbitant. The point of my posting is not to slam a prduct. It's just my opinion that "I DON'T LIKE THEM" & gave my resons why.This board for the most part, is made up of new & intermediate players. To give them the impression that to play good pool, you have to invest in one of these shafts, I think is misleading...JER

Ralph S.
12-09-2002, 08:37 AM
A friend of mine has a 314 shaft and I shot a few racks with it and I didnt think it was all its cracked up to be. As far as I am concerned my McDermott shoots just as well as the 314 and I sure my eventually new BLACKHEART will too!
Ralph S. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

silverbullet
12-09-2002, 08:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> I hear so much hype here, about the Predator shafts. I gave some thought about this today, after playing in my Sunday afternoon league. After reviewing my win in my mind, I can say that not one shot was missed because of squirt, throw, shaft distortion or deflection. I missed because I'm not as good as I used to be. I don't see as well as I used to. I don't prepare as well as I used to. In other words I can't blame the shaft for any missed shots. I for one don't like the Predetor shafts. I don't like the way they hit. I don't like that they are hard to repair. I don't like that they are made in Taiwan for practically nothing &amp; that they are so expensive. As far as I can decern not one of the better players in any of the leagues( 5 days a week),in my community uses one. In fact very few of the top professional players in the world uses one. If these shafts are so good, why don't the pros use them? If I were a pro &amp; a new shaft could give me an edge to win lots of money....I'd have one..., BUT THEY DON"T...JER (there I've gotten that off of my chest) <hr /></blockquote>

Glad to see you here jer. Your sticks are the prettiest, no doubt. As far as preditor(which I like the feel and the unilock thing) or anything else, I really dont see a difference,but dont like whippy shafts. Maybe that is a preference &lt;G&gt; Scott says it is the stroke not the cue. Eva Lawrence says the tip is the most important part of the cue.

I know I am a beginner, but I have seen you experienced people battle which cues are better, cept noone says anything bad about blackheart cues. One thing I agree with that jer said. When I miss a shot, it is me, not the cue.

Laura

silverbullet
12-09-2002, 08:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TonyM:</font><hr> I can tell you with absolute certainty, that they ARE NOT made in Tiawan!

Certainly you are entitled to your opinions, and not everyone would or even should like them. But please don't make statements that are blatently false!

Tony <hr /></blockquote>

then where are they made? cuz i got a predbk from ww for christmas. i looked at all the websites too. What shaft is 260? I saw the unilock pred shaft that fits on the sneaky pete for 196 or 25 more if you want a moori, or 176 for the other pred shaft....

about all i have decided so far is i dont like the cuetecs i have seen cuz they were whippy. maybe good ones too dont know.

Laura

dave
12-09-2002, 09:30 AM
YOU WON ?! Oh my god! It must be that bionic implant you been jabbering about the last few days.
Quess I need a new shaft. Squirt. Yeah that's it! That's my problem. Couldn't be that I don't practice or that I have my head up my ass. Where's my wallet?

SpiderMan
12-09-2002, 09:38 AM
The shafts are not made in Jacksonville?

SpiderMan

silverbullet
12-09-2002, 09:39 AM
oh did i say that the cue i got from jere hits really good too? it and it has a great ferrule and sumo wb tip on it.

blu

stickman
12-09-2002, 09:59 AM
I'm glad you got that off your chest, JER. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I have a friend with an expensive Predator cue. The butt is beautiful, with some very pretty wood and inlays. He's let me shoot with it, and to be honest, I'd love to have something like it, but not because it helps my game at all. I like it because it looks so good. I don't feel that a Predator shaft would give me a competitive advantage, but if it helps someone elses game I'm happy for them. As far as price goes, I can buy two extra shafts for my Viking and have change left over, plus I won't have to take these shafts to someone to have them custom fitted.

12-09-2002, 11:44 AM
excellent post!!!!! squirt, deflection, eyesight, table speed/condition are just some of the fallback excuses needed to explain why we /they lost
a few weeks back i played in a 9 ball race to 7 double elimination tourny with many TOP players using anything from house cues to medium priced cues. it was the average type players using the hi dollar cues. seen many red dots, black dots &amp; predator cues.
the guy who won ran an unbelievable number racks, at least 2 sets were 7 &amp; out. in his opinion he had the very best pool tools in hand. an "its a george case" &amp; a "dufferin" sneeky pete.
this guy was a world class player, Cliff Jorner. is this called "keeping it simple"?

Perk
12-09-2002, 11:49 AM
How many players grab broomsticks? I think we have all been there before. Ever mark a house stick in some way shape or form as to easily find it again?

&lt;--shoots with anything with a "good" tip on it, but I prefer my Predator.

Fred Agnir
12-09-2002, 12:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote TonyM:</font><hr> I can tell you with absolute certainty, that they ARE NOT made in Tiawan!
<hr /></blockquote>

then where are they made? <hr /></blockquote>
The Predator Shafts are made by Predator Cue (fka Clawson Cues) in Jacksonville, Florida. The butts are made elsewhere. At one point, the butts were made by Falcon Cues, which is headquartered in Taiwan. But, they (Falcon) also have manufacturing in Canada. I don't know if Falcon still makes the Predator Cue butts.

Fred

Harold Acosta
12-09-2002, 09:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> I hear so much hype here, about the Predator shafts. I gave some thought about this today, after playing in my Sunday afternoon league. After reviewing my win in my mind, I can say that not one shot was missed because of squirt, throw, shaft distortion or deflection. I missed because I'm not as good as I used to be. I don't see as well as I used to. I don't prepare as well as I used to. In other words I can't blame the shaft for any missed shots. I for one don't like the Predetor shafts. I don't like the way they hit. I don't like that they are hard to repair. I don't like that they are made in Taiwan for practically nothing &amp; that they are so expensive. As far as I can decern not one of the better players in any of the leagues( 5 days a week),in my community uses one. In fact very few of the top professional players in the world uses one. If these shafts are so good, why don't the pros use them? If I were a pro &amp; a new shaft could give me an edge to win lots of money....I'd have one..., BUT THEY DON"T...JER (there I've gotten that off of my chest) <hr /></blockquote>

YEEEHAAH! I knew I was not alone about Predator Shafts! I've taken quite a beating on this subject before, and now the truth is coming out!

[b]<font color="blue">Billiards is a passionate sport for the mind and soul!</font color>
http://www.thebilliardstour.com/images/starscrash.gif

eg8r
12-09-2002, 09:56 PM
LOL, Harold, I was waiting to see how long it would take for you to post. You have taken a beating, so now it is time to shine. You are not the only one. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

eg8r &lt;~~~My bad play is why I missed, not the cue I play with

Harold Acosta
12-09-2002, 10:19 PM
I'm hoping Tom in Cincy see this post too!

Yeehah!

[b]<font color="blue">Billiards is a passionate sport for the mind and soul!</font color>
http://www.thebilliardstour.com/images/starscrash.gif

Cueless Joey
12-09-2002, 10:34 PM
Do cuemakers' opinions really count? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
After all Predator is hurting a ton of cuemakers out there.
I sense a little irony in Jer since he himself markets a laminated shaft. Flat one, I believe. Or some people would call plywood. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BLACKHEART
12-09-2002, 11:56 PM
Joey; you are right, I do make a plywood type, laminated shaft. I also have a full time job &amp; only make Qs part time. Since I don't rely on my Q making, to support me &amp; my family, my opinion about these Predator shafts are not influenced by a competitor attatude. My attempt to make a laminated shaft, is as an alternative to the traditional maple wooden shaft. We are cutting down quality maple trees faster than new ones can grow. Even the trees that are growing, are inferior to old growth trees, because our global warming has caused trees to grow faster, that the older growth trees. This results in shaft wood that is lighter in weight &amp; growth rings that are farther apart. I truely believe that the laminated (plywood) approach to shaft making will be our only alterative for a quality wooden shaft. The performance of this type of shaft is really favorably comparably to a solid piece of maple. My objections to the Predator shafts are as stated.....AND NOTHING MORE THAN MY PERSONAL OPINION...JER

TonyM
12-10-2002, 12:26 AM
The shaft segments are glued-up, and turned to size in the Florida plant. The ferrule and low end mass treatments are also done in Florida. The blanks are sent to Falcon's Missisauga, Ontario (Canada) plant for the final joint collar and insert installation.

So the entire 314 shaft is 100% North American Made.

Falcon still make the butts for the Predator cues (including the BK cue) except for the P2, which is made at the Florida location.

They might not be for everyone (to each his own) but let's make it clear, they are a home grown product (the 314 shaft), not an import!

Good ole American ingenuity if you ask me.

Tony

TonyM
12-10-2002, 12:33 AM
Jer, it's not about arguments or even opinions. I've seen Falcon's operation first hand, and a good freind was recently at the Jacksonville operation. The 314 shafts are 100% North American made. From the Maple , to the machining.

I've seen it with my own eyes Jer, and I'm no dummy. Who ever told you they were made in Tiawan doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground! Lol!

I could care less if you like 'em or hate 'em, that's your choice.

But how would you like it if someone said that Blackheart cues were actually Chinese imports? (I know, they aren't!).

Get off your chest whatever you like, but make sure you have the correct story first!

Tony

12-10-2002, 12:34 AM
i've been watching this thread and figured it's ok to just let people vent and not try to get in their way or convince them of something they just don't want to know. saw the line about no pro players using predator and let it go even though i know from personal knowledge of many who use the pred even though they either don't put the pred. decal on it or have it taken off. go to the pred website. see the names and pictures. and there are a lot more who won't admit it but if you take a close look at their cue you'll see that it's radially laminated. must be one of the other radially laminated cues, huh??

so now, since meucci and, i guess, a couple of other folks are selling laminated blanks cheap we're seeing makers coming out with "their own" shafts. got one here.

to each his own, i guess.

...and j.e.r., my respect for you is too great after so many years to dump on you...but you really should have disclosed that laminated shaft stuff. really, i hear they're not bad. almost as good as a predator.



dan

Cueless Joey
12-10-2002, 12:34 AM
Jer, flat laminated shafts have been around for decades. Not a single pro uses one. I am intrigued that you see any need for it. Would they hit any better than regular shafts?
If all the good maple get consumed, I guess we'll have to switch to purpleheart shafts coated in white. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

rackmup
12-10-2002, 12:44 AM
Well...as a Predator BK owner, I will say that I like the way it hits. My breaks are stronger and I like that.

What I do not like is the fact that to replace the soft ferrule, I have to send it to Predator or risk voiding my warranty.

And, I am certain that none of you will believe this but it is true:

Since buying my Predator BK, I haven't made any fewer than six balls on the snap on ANY break, I have never lost a match (in over 5 months) and I have pocketed more than $746,000 dollars gambling while breaking with my Predator BK.

So there.

Regards,

Ken (likes his BK but not so much that I am willing to s-t-r-e-t-c-h the truth and it was $746,010 until I lost a GAME (not a match) to eg8r.)

Cueless Joey
12-10-2002, 01:04 AM
Right and you're the father of Shania Twain's baby. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BLACKHEART
12-10-2002, 01:42 AM
My source for the Taiwan conection is a very respected wholesaler in the billiard community. His name is JIM OSWALD of BILLIARDS &amp; BAGALS in GRISHAM OREGON. Jim has 1500 pool Qs on hand at all times &amp; has been a promoter of custom Qmakers for decades. Jim is my sourse for the story that Preditor shafts are made in Taiwan. If he is wrong then I am wrong. Again, my objections to these Qs &amp; how they play are strictly a personal opinion. I DON'T LIKE THE WAY THEY PLAY. I confess that as a Qmaker of 16 years I am still learning my craft. I am humbled at any attempt to group me or my Qs with those whom I respect as masters of this trade. I reiterate that my attempt to make a laminated(plywood type) shaft is an attempt to COPY nature &amp; produce a grained piece of wood that mimmicks the natural wood product that I once took for granted as standard. I don't try to improve on it, stiffen it or achieve more or less deflection. When I can no longer buy quality shaft wood, I would like to have a satisfactory substatute...JER

Chris Cass
12-10-2002, 02:00 AM
Not to mention, good business sence.

Regards,

C.C.~~likes JER too.

BLACKHEART
12-10-2002, 02:17 AM
Maybe some background info would help shed some light on this shaft issue. I usually buy my shaft wood, as hard maple blanks in a 1" diameter dowel, 30" long. In a box of one hundred dowels I find about 50 of these has the quality &amp; color required for high end Qs. Of these, about 1/2 have grain that is both high quallity &amp; don't have color &amp; texture defects that would render them less than desireable for high end Qs. On the other hand my laminated plywood shafts are vertually 100% useable as quality high end shafts, that are barely desernable from quality standard maple shafts. For me that means that 100% of these pieces of wood would be useable &amp; graded close to or equal to natural maple. The kicker is that I don't have to throw anything away AND they play like a REGULAR GRAINED MAPLE SHAFT. To me this is the way shafts will be made in the future. THEY COPY THE PLAY OF NATURAL MAPLE. The Predator's engineering is much more unque &amp; imaginative. They have also introduced a solid rod into the last few inches behind the tip &amp; ferrule. Indeed they have invested time &amp; money into THEY'RE idea of a better mouse trap. I JUST DON'T HAPPEN TO LIKE IT. I felt a need to express my own opinion. THAT'S ALL...JER

12-10-2002, 02:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> The Predator's engineering is much more unque &amp; imaginative. They have also introduced a solid rod into the last few inches behind the tip &amp; ferrule. Indeed they have invested time &amp; money into THEY'RE idea of a better mouse trap. I JUST DON'T HAPPEN TO LIKE IT. I felt a need to express my own opinion. THAT'S ALL...JER <hr /></blockquote>



solid rod???

nope. no solid rod. just a hole. i think they fooled around with some filler materials( nothing like a solid rod. that would beat the mass reduction idea.) at one point but it's just a hole.

dan

Brent
12-10-2002, 03:01 AM
Hi. A bit offtopic again..like always in my case but since u all here Id like to know a few things. I got a pretty cheap cue. Well I dont play so good that Id need a good cue but as for the shaft...how big is the bifference if I bought a new shaft for my cue. And If I decided to do that then what shaft to buy that would fit /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif ..oh one more thing..I dont have a lot of mone to buy some predator beast /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Ok thnx for replying.

Brent

silverbullet
12-10-2002, 03:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TonyM:</font><hr> Jer, it's not about arguments or even opinions. I've seen Falcon's operation first hand, and a good freind was recently at the Jacksonville operation. The 314 shafts are 100% North American made. From the Maple , to the machining.
&lt;snip
Tony <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Tony. Glad to see my bk is american made. Awhile back Blackheart said he saw less warpage in shafts made in us.

blu

silverbullet
12-10-2002, 03:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote houstondan:</font><hr>...and j.e.r., my respect for you is too great after so many years to dump on you...but you really should have disclosed that laminated shaft stuff. really, i hear they're not bad. almost as good as a predator.

dan

<hr /></blockquote>

I have so much respect for jer and the care he takes in his craft. Did he tell you he runs a demo, less expensive stick to check the settings before starting on the more expensive custom one? This really impressed me and jers sticks are one of a kind.The cue I got from him was one of his demo models he runs before the expensive one, I think. This is the only way I could afford to get into a blackheart right now. Jer, correct me if I am wrong.

i think there will always be some goings on between custom cue makers and companies like preditor. Sone people want a one of a kind, beautiful cue that also hits well and that is why they have a Blackheart custom made. Others just want a decent due. I see a market for both.

I see personal preference as being the biggest factor. We have in our house a preditor sneaky pete(ww) and the blackheart I bought. Qs previously mentioned, the bk is a christmas present.

Both cues weigh 19 oz and are 13mm. To my untrained eye, the sp seems a little more butt slenderor than the blackheart. The sp has more taper in its shaft. The blackheart is not rigid but is a little stiffer than the sp. The blackheart appears to have come with a very good ferrule and sumo water buffalo tip which hits well and straight. The sp came with a decent ferrule and crappy tip that had to be replaced with a good one. Other than being a beautiful stick and hitting well, we know the blackheart came from a craftsman who cares about his work while the sp are produced in greater quantity and look the same.

Considering both to be 19 oz and 13mm,The diferences that matter to an ordinary pool player imo, thicker vs thinner butt, the matter of the taper in the shaft (a factor with small hands), accessibility ie catelog vs being on a waiting list for a blackheart (remember these are ordinary joes wanting a decent cues not appreciative necessary of fine art}and the unilock system.

blu

Popcorn
12-10-2002, 07:19 AM
I see no point to this thread? Every time this subject comes up, a line is drawn in the sand and everyone takes sides. If someone wants to use a Predator shaft and believe it helps them, so be it. Those who don't like them that is their choice, don't buy one. There is not right or wrong, what is the point? Is it the price you object to? I just don't get this thread every time it comes up. It reminds me of a couple of guys in a bar arguing about sports teams.

eg8r
12-10-2002, 07:25 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Quote houstondan:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...and j.e.r., my respect for you is too great after so many years to dump on you...but you really should have disclosed that laminated shaft stuff. really, i hear they're not bad. almost as good as a predator.

dan


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have so much respect for jer and the care he takes in his craft. Did he tell you he runs a demo, less expensive stick to check the settings before starting on the more expensive custom one? This really impressed me and jers sticks are one of a kind.The cue I got from him was one of his demo models he runs before the expensive one, I think. This is the only way I could afford to get into a blackheart right now. Jer, correct me if I am wrong.

i think there will always be some goings on between custom cue makers and companies like preditor. Sone people want a one of a kind, beautiful cue that also hits well and that is why they have a Blackheart custom made. Others just want a decent due. I see a market for both.

I see personal preference as being the biggest factor. We have in our house a preditor sneaky pete(ww) and the blackheart I bought. Qs previously mentioned, the bk is a christmas present.

Both cues weigh 19 oz and are 13mm. To my untrained eye, the sp seems a little more butt slenderor than the blackheart. The sp has more taper in its shaft. The blackheart is not rigid but is a little stiffer than the sp. The blackheart appears to have come with a very good ferrule and sumo water buffalo tip which hits well and straight. The sp came with a decent ferrule and crappy tip that had to be replaced with a good one. Other than being a beautiful stick and hitting well, we know the blackheart came from a craftsman who cares about his work while the sp are produced in greater quantity and look the same.

Considering both to be 19 oz and 13mm,The diferences that matter to an ordinary pool player imo, thicker vs thinner butt, the matter of the taper in the shaft (a factor with small hands), accessibility ie catelog vs being on a waiting list for a blackheart (remember these are ordinary joes wanting a decent cues not appreciative necessary of fine art}and the unilock system.
blu <hr /></blockquote> I am not sure where this is going. Glad you love your Blackheart cue but did this post have anything to do with why people have a love/hate relationship with Predator. The original post was about how Jer does not blame his pocketing ability on the shaft when most people will. In your post you quoted houstondans remark about Jer not disclosing to people that Jer himself also sells his own laminated shaft, then you do not even talk about it.

I hear a lot of people tell me how their game has increased dramatically just because they changed cues. This is BS and I have asked many of them after having the cue for a while if anything has changed and they all tell me, not really I just went back to playing the way I did before. Many times when someone gets a new cue they play better right away, maybe it is the excitement, but in time they will revert back to their normal way of playing.

eg8r

Ward
12-10-2002, 07:31 AM
I have two Predator shafts on my Woodworth cue, I bought the shafts and had Mr. Woodworth fit them to my cue. I play with them daily and love them.

They are not for everyone but again that is why there are more than one cue maker, everyone has there own opinion about what makes a good hitting cue.

If you don't like them fine don't use them. Just don't tell me that they are not any good because I LOVE them.

Later

Ward
12-10-2002, 07:35 AM
I like Moori tips too..

later

eg8r
12-10-2002, 07:39 AM
I am not knocking anyone, just pointing out something funny.
[ QUOTE ]
The shaft segments are glued-up, and turned to size in the Florida plant. The ferrule and low end mass treatments are also done in Florida. The blanks are sent to Falcon's Missisauga, Ontario (Canada) plant for the final joint collar and insert installation.

So the entire 314 shaft is 100% North American Made.<hr /></blockquote>Would you be so quick with your 100% North American Made label if the joint collar and insert installation was done in Mexico? I guess the shafts are not completely American (USA) made, instead just merely North American made. I know it probably does not matter to anyone that plays with the cue because quality is not based on where something is made but more on the person putting it together. I just thought it was funny to see something labeled as NorthAmerican made.

eg8r /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

rackmup
12-10-2002, 07:55 AM
(That wasn't supposed to leak out. Darned media!)

Ken (She wants to name the baby after me, even if it's a girl. She loves me.)

nAz
12-10-2002, 08:00 AM
She must love you to name a girl Rackmup /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

~Naz thinking of whittling a piece of maple to make a new shaft

silverbullet
12-10-2002, 08:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I see no point to this thread? Every time this subject comes up, a line is drawn in the sand and everyone takes sides. If someone wants to use a Predator shaft and believe it helps them, so be it. Those who don't like them that is their choice, don't buy one. There is not right or wrong, what is the point? Is it the price you object to? I just don't get this thread every time it comes up. It reminds me of a couple of guys in a bar arguing about sports teams. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree or how many fairies can dance on the head of a pin?
Jer makes a fine cue.And it is the prettiest by far. It is weighted good, shoots good etc...
Preditor has a cue that feels good to me too but then they are all pretty much okay (unless the butt is too large for my hands)my bias is i like a good tip but maybe that is in my head too

I did experiments with all the cues in my house,including the warped ones, either they are all great or it is the stroke man....and the mind

if you dont agree, ask cc, ask scott,randy g and other master bca instructors you might have. i have rid the fence on this one but cannot anymore. shoot with what you want to shoot. nothing is any better or any worse. its in the mind man and mostly in the stroke....



blu

Fred Agnir
12-10-2002, 08:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I hear a lot of people tell me how their game has increased dramatically just because they changed cues. This is BS and I have asked many of them after having the cue for a while if anything has changed and they all tell me, not really I just went back to playing the way I did before. Many times when someone gets a new cue they play better right away, maybe it is the excitement, but in time they will revert back to their normal way of playing. <hr /></blockquote>
I think this is true, for the vast majority of times when someone has the "new cue syndrome." I would like to add however that some people actually have figured out what they'd like out of a cue, be it a different weight, balance, shaft taper, butt taper, etc. and that the new cue with those difference implemented can actually result in a better game for that individual.

Fred &lt;~~~ shoots better with his Schuler, but not with his other newer cues.

stickman
12-10-2002, 09:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr>And, I am certain that none of you will believe this but it is true:

Since buying my Predator BK, I haven't made any fewer than six balls on the snap on ANY break, I have never lost a match (in over 5 months) and I have pocketed more than $746,000 dollars gambling while breaking with my Predator BK.

So there.

Regards,

Ken (likes his BK but not so much that I am willing to s-t-r-e-t-c-h the truth and it was $746,010 until I lost a GAME (not a match) to eg8r.)<hr /></blockquote>

If they'll put that in the gaurantee, I'll buy two. LOL

Question: What happens when you meet someone else using a Predator?

Jim~~~~Not knocking anyone's choice. Some people like a Rolls Royse, some like a Lamborghini. I drive a Ford. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fred Agnir
12-10-2002, 09:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote stickman:</font><hr>
If they'll put that in the gaurantee, I'll buy two. LOL

Question: What happens when you meet someone else using a Predator?<hr /></blockquote>
The world ends due to the disruption of the space/time continuum, I suppose. Or something.

Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't want to test it

12-10-2002, 11:11 AM
For all of you that want clarification on the "information" that Predator shafts are made overseas, let me clear the air.

Predator shafts are made entirely in Jacksonville Florida. I should know this fact since I see it everyday when I come to work.

Anyone that thinks differently is wrong. This is not opinion, it is fact.

Anyone who would like to dispute this fact can call me at 888-314-4111.

Vicki
12-10-2002, 11:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> These pros use Pred and are not paid to do so;
Bustamante, Luat, Lining, Pagulayan, Corr and Mika.
Mika shoots with a Capone and 314. He doesn't sell Predator shafts. He just uses it.
<hr /></blockquote>

I can tell you with absolute certainty that Mika does NOT play with a Predator shaft on his Capone cue. He has NEVER played with a Predator shaft on his Capone cue.

silverbullet
12-10-2002, 12:09 PM
i did not mean to post hd on the laminated stuff. i should have just responded but i wanted to say what i said and the way this is set up, you have to respond to a post. shouldve deleted the comment. btw-blackheart described his process in detail with me before i got the cue. i believe he is up and up and would have revealed those details to anyone who asked.

personally, have hit with both. havent been playing serious for too long but both hit good. we are talking functioality, not art.

blu

12-10-2002, 01:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vicki:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> These pros use Pred and are not paid to do so;
Bustamante, Luat, Lining, Pagulayan, Corr and Mika.
Mika shoots with a Capone and 314. He doesn't sell Predator shafts. He just uses it.
<hr /></blockquote>

I can tell you with absolute certainty that Mika does NOT play with a Predator shaft on his Capone cue. He has NEVER played with a Predator shaft on his Capone cue. <hr /></blockquote>

True! BTW, at first i thought Bustamante is also using a Predator shft BUT he is not. Base on what I've seen on TV, his playing cue has a longer ferrule as oppose to Predator shorter ferrule. But his breaking cue's shaft has a shorter ferrule (probably a Pred shaft).

TonyM
12-10-2002, 02:17 PM
Since I've personally seen the operation with MY OWN EYES, I can state with certainty that Jim is wrong. Personal experience trumps hearsay everytime if you ask me.

I think that the Tiawan part of the story comes from Preadators relationship with Falcon cues. Falcon have a plant in Canada, but they also have plants in Tiawan as well.

But the 314 SHAFT itself is not made in Tiawan, period.

As for liking them, or not liking them, ...hey, that's your perogative.

Different strokes and all that.

Tony

TonyM
12-10-2002, 02:26 PM
I like your thinking behind the justification for the flat laminated maple shafts Jer (I think that "plywood" is the wrong term as it refers to alternating 0 degree and 90 degree layers, plus it seems "derogatory" to me!).

I know that Dufferin have made some flat laminated shafts for years. Do you find any long term warpage issues?

I've heard that some players with the new black dot Meucci shafts (flat laminated) are finding some warpage with some of the shafts.

I would have thought that they would be more stable in the long run?

Btw, just as a FYI, there is not a solid rod in the first 6" of a 314 shaft.

It's actually hollow. They drill a hole down the shaft for about 6", and then coat the inside of the hole with an epoxy and sintered coating. But in reality, the first 6" is actually a bit more flexible (and much lighter) than a solid wood shaft. Then the hole is filled with a light weight foam to reduce the sound a bit.

And I agree, it does change the way the shaft plays when compared to a solid wood shaft.

Personally, I prefer the "feel" of a solid wood shaft with a heavy ferrule, but I prefer the reduced squirt of the 314.

If someone could come up with a way to get both, they could retire! Lol!

Tony

BLACKHEART
12-10-2002, 04:30 PM
It seems I'm sorry every time I post here. I started out trying to help less expeiencd players, by pointing out that buying expensive equipment, is not as necessary as the stroke &amp; the practice. There are those here who delight in pouncing on any small mistake. If I have offended anyone I'm sorry. As for my "BLATENTLY FALSE" statements.......I don't know. I may be MISTAKEN or my information may be WRONG, but I never mean to mislead or lie to anyone. I thought I was helping, but you can't look past my mistakes long enough to see my good intentions. If I try to give a simplified example of what the laminated shafts look like.....I get a text book definition of plywood. I give up. I thought I had a small amount of knowledge, that I could share, but there are those who contribute little &amp; delight in trashing others who's aim is only to help. Please don't answer this I'M TIRED &amp; I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO WITH MY TIME. SORRY AGAIN &amp; THANKS...JER

silverbullet
12-10-2002, 04:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> It seems I'm sorry every time I post here. I started out trying to help less expeiencd players, by pointing out that buying expensive equipment, is not as necessary as the stroke &amp; the practice. There are those here who delight in pouncing on any small mistake. If I have offended anyone I'm sorry. As for my "BLATENTLY FALSE" statements.......I don't know. I may be MISTAKEN or my information may be WRONG, but I never mean to mislead or lie to anyone. I thought I was helping, but you can't look past my mistakes long enough to see my good intentions. If I try to give a simplified example of what the laminated shafts look like.....I get a text book definition of plywood. I give up. I thought I had a small amount of knowledge, that I could share, but there are those who contribute little &amp; delight in trashing others who's aim is only to help. Please don't answer this I'M TIRED &amp; I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO WITH MY TIME. SORRY AGAIN &amp; THANKS...JER <hr /></blockquote>

I know the feeling. I have taken hits. Sometimes I felt like I was the ccb personal punching bag.

blu

Popcorn
12-10-2002, 04:50 PM
Your problem with the wood has more to do with your supplier then the availability of good shaft wood. If you are dumping 50% I would find another supplier.

SpiderMan
12-10-2002, 04:51 PM
JER,

Where did you get that information? I just called my friend Chopstick in Orlando. He went to the Jacksonville facility to buy a BK a couple of months ago, and swears the shafts were being made there.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> I for one don't like the Predetor shafts. I don't like the way they hit. I don't like that they are hard to repair. I don't like that they are made in Taiwan for practically nothing &amp; that they are so expensive. <hr /></blockquote>

SPetty
12-10-2002, 05:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mark23:</font><hr> Base on what I've seen on TV, his playing cue has a longer ferrule as oppose to Predator shorter ferrule. <hr /></blockquote>Hi mark23,

I have an older Predator cue with the older shaft and it has the longer ferrule. My understanding is that when they first started making them, they made them with a "normal" length ferrule. They then shortened the ferrule, ostensibly to help reduce the end mass, but I've heard others say that it was a marketing ploy so that you could identify the Predator shaft by sight so that you could see that the pros were using it.

stickman
12-10-2002, 06:20 PM
For what it's worth, JER, I read and appreciate your every post. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Cueless Joey
12-10-2002, 06:47 PM
I know that Busta broke with Pred last year. He sold his breaker to a friend of mine. It was a short ferruled Pred.

Sid_Vicious
12-10-2002, 08:30 PM
Same here...sid

rackmup
12-10-2002, 10:01 PM
It's just a message board. It's like a pool room: people from every walk of life with different opinions. Some know it all, others are just know-it-alls.

Toss the nonsense aside, please the people you can and ignore those that you cannot.

And yes, Silverbullet...you were and still are the 'punching bag' but everyone has their role in the CCB world.

Me? I'm the CCB wise guy.

Regards,

Ken

TonyM
12-11-2002, 12:48 AM
Hey, whoa, hang on a second Jer. I didn't mean to make you feel picked on!

As I said, I thought your explanation of why you use a laminated shaft was a good one.

And the only problem that I had with your initial post was the "made in Tiawan" comment.

As for the "plywood" comment, I only wanted to point out that many people cringe when they hear the word plywood, as it brings up a negative connotation. So I thought that you might want to make it sound a bit more technical. If you have no problem with "plywood" then by all means, call it whatever you want to!

I meant no offense.

Regards,

TonyM

silverbullet
12-11-2002, 01:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> It's just a message board. It's like a pool room: people from every walk of life with different opinions. Some know it all, others are just know-it-alls.

Toss the nonsense aside, please the people you can and ignore those that you cannot.

And yes, Silverbullet...you were and still are the 'punching bag' but everyone has their role in the CCB world.

Me? I'm the CCB wise guy.

Regards,

Ken <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah well I am getting set to change my punching bag status. Life is about choices and what a person is is what they to a certain extent attract. A person can either continue to attract it or to walk away.I am choosing not to be a 'punching bag' anymore.

I am a strong woman and deserve respect for being a woman and a person. I am not a beginner at pool anymore,either. Neither do I have a desire to put myself in a box and call myself a 2,3 or 4. I Yam what I Yam.

You are right, ken, in a dysfunctional family, everybody has roles. And the rules are dont talk, dont trust, dont feel. Well I broke all the rules. Yes I am very sensitive and I do not know why people want to flame me or hurt my feelings. Personally, unless they are fust being funny or speaking the truth in love, they are just being ass*oles pure and simple.

i stopped being member of dysfunctional relationships a long time ago and if all this group is is a dysfunctional unit, then I will be like others and cut bait and see you (inclusive) on the tables some day.

I guess you struck a cord ken. Personally, you are one of the good ones here. But I have come to the point of a decision. Personally, attacking people regardless of their status,is pure unadulturated BS.

I am not even speaking out of emotion here, but I have made a decision.

Laura aka Bluewolf, Nakota Nation, Wolf Clan

Rich R.
12-11-2002, 05:21 AM
Jer, you always provide the best information at your disposal and most of the time it is good information that we can all learn from.
Please do not take offense when some one has facts that prove one small point to be incorrect. We all get misinformation once in a while.
Also, do not take offense when some one disagrees with you. Every one has their opinion and none is more or less valued than the rest.
As I consider you one of the more knowledgeable people here, I urge you to continue to post. We can not afford to lose more knowledgeable people.

silverbullet
12-11-2002, 06:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> Jer, you always provide the best information at your disposal and most of the time it is good information that we can all learn from.
Please do not take offense when some one has facts that prove one small point to be incorrect. We all get misinformation once in a while.
Also, do not take offense when some one disagrees with you. Every one has their opinion and none is more or less valued than the rest.
As I consider you one of the more knowledgeable people here, I urge you to continue to post. We can not afford to lose more knowledgeable people. <hr /></blockquote>

ditto to all of that. Jer, you are an artist, not just a custom cue maker. I have never seen more beautiful cues in my life. You also helped me at a time when my cues were warped, I was trying to replace, and gave me a great deal on a blackheart. I never forget a kindness to me. And now, once my bills are all payed up, (getting there),I want to get one of your custom cues.

blu

dave
12-11-2002, 09:28 AM
I have known Jerry for over 17 years. In all my dealings with him, in that time, he has always acted with integrity and fairness. There is not one person here who has not inadvertently passed on incorrect information while acting in good faith. Jerry has no personal agenda here other than to help people here understand the cue making process and to socialize a bit. He was merely expressing a personal opinion about a product on the market. Anyone who characterizes his statements as self serving is grossly mistaken and thoughtlessly reactionary. Jerry, you know what this board is like; take a deep breath, count to ten.

Fred Agnir
12-11-2002, 10:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dave:</font><hr> I have known Jerry for over 17 years. In all my dealings with him, in that time, he has always acted with integrity and fairness. <hr /></blockquote>
Was this ever questioned? I don't see it.

[ QUOTE ]
He was merely expressing a personal opinion about a product on the market.<hr /></blockquote>
And a few people corrected a misleading assertion. Not a big deal.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who characterizes his statements as self serving is grossly mistaken and thoughtlessly reactionary.<hr /></blockquote>
Again, I don't see where anyone did this. It's almost like I see someone fighting an invisible opponent.

Fred

dave
12-11-2002, 11:45 AM
Fred, someone, in an earlier post, implied that Jerry's statement about the Predator shaft was possibly motivated by the fact that he is a cuemaker (competitor?). That is why I made that statement. Perhaps I'M the one being reactionary to an interpretation of someone's intent. If so, I apologize. I'm to lazy too search through the posts and dig it out.

Fred Agnir
12-11-2002, 12:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dave:</font><hr> Fred, someone, in an earlier post, implied that Jerry's statement about the Predator shaft was possibly motivated by the fact that he is a cuemaker (competitor?). That is why I made that statement. Perhaps I'M the one being reactionary to an interpretation of someone's intent. If so, I apologize. I'm to lazy too search through the posts and dig it out. <hr /></blockquote>
Yep. It was Cueless Joey, but he also put the grinning icon which means he was just being a little cheeky.

Fred

rackmup
12-12-2002, 12:41 AM
Respectfully Laura, you ARE still a beginner at pool. Be honest with yourself and just look back at some of your posts and that 'beginner' status stands out like a sore thumb.

That being said, I would hope you develop that tough 'outer shell' needed to survive in the real world. For heaven's sake Laura...this is just a message forum that means nothing in the real course of things.

There will always be someone to disagree with or who might disagree with you but to take it so personally AND to call yourself a pool player, just don't fit.

Part of the game at a competitive level...any competitive level, almost always involves a degree of chatter from someone in the room. If you are 'sensitive', perhaps pool was the wrong choice unless you relegate yourself to the basement of your home and only play there.

If you choose to leave the board (which you threatened to do before and never did) so be it but at least do this:

Make a decision and stand by it. That is where respect is earned. What's the old saying?..."The wishy-washy will not inherit diddly-squat."

Regards,

Ken (not going anywhere!)

silverbullet
12-12-2002, 03:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> Respectfully Laura, you ARE still a beginner at pool. Be honest with yourself and just look back at some of your posts and that 'beginner' status stands out like a sore thumb.

That being said, I would hope you develop that tough 'outer shell' needed to survive in the real world. For heaven's sake Laura...this is just a message forum that means nothing in the real course of things.

There will always be someone to disagree with or who might disagree with you but to take it so personally AND to call yourself a pool player, just don't fit.

Part of the game at a competitive level...any competitive level, almost always involves a degree of chatter from someone in the room. If you are 'sensitive', perhaps pool was the wrong choice unless you relegate yourself to the basement of your home and only play there.

If you choose to leave the board (which you threatened to do before and never did) so be it but at least do this:

Make a decision and stand by it. That is where respect is earned. What's the old saying?..."The wishy-washy will not inherit diddly-squat."

Regards,

Ken (not going anywhere!) <hr /></blockquote>

beginner, smaginner. it is all relative. i am a beginner compared to allison fisher or any top pro.. what do you define as a beginner. a 4 a apa 2 an apa 6? you are froom what i heard pretty good. maybe all of those are beginners to you.

something has happened in the last month or two. i no longer call myself a beginner.you can if you wish.i feel no further need to justify what i am doing in pool or how much I have improved or anything.there is a lot more to a person anyway.

being sensitive. yeah, but what does that have to do with pool. a sensitive person is more vulnerable no matter where they go but it can happen to be a strength also.

what so tuff about pool or pool halls.i have been in those places and never had a problem. they leave me alone.

if i do go away it wont be because my feelings are hurt . it will be because of choice, weighing the negative against the positive. like i said ken, you are a good guy. and i dont mind teasing and i dont mind a heated discussion .

i told you i was not going to be in the role of 'ccb punching bag'. even fighting (metaphorically) may not change that but i have made a decision which is not about being wishywasy or hurt feelings and i am not crying.the decision is about seeing whether that role can be change and evaluating ccbs role in my life, ie whether i still need to be here or it is time to cut bait.

well, what more can i say except i hope this board will be a pleasant place for pool lovers to hang out.

blu

Elvis
12-12-2002, 09:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>I hear a lot of people tell me how their game has increased dramatically just because they changed cues. This is BS and I have asked many of them after having the cue for a while if anything has changed and they all tell me, not really I just went back to playing the way I did before. Many times when someone gets a new cue they play better right away, maybe it is the excitement, but in time they will revert back to their normal way of playing.
eg8r<hr /></blockquote>

This is also the same thing I explain to my wife every time I buy a new cue /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

silverbullet
12-12-2002, 10:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Elvis:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>I hear a lot of people tell me how their game has increased dramatically just because they changed cues. This is BS and I have asked many of them after having the cue for a while if anything has changed and they all tell me, not really I just went back to playing the way I did before. Many times when someone gets a new cue they play better right away, maybe it is the excitement, but in time they will revert back to their normal way of playing.
eg8r<hr /></blockquote>

This is also the same thing I explain to my wife every time I buy a new cue /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

This is deep. We look outside ourselves for the sources of our troubles &lt;G&gt;. It is the cue,etc etc. I looked and changed so many things and many of them had nothing to do with the source of the trouble which I had to learn to believe I could play pool. I learned a lot from scott and randy but bottom line i had to bellieve in me.

dont know how that switch came on but when it did, balls went in holes. sometimes i could see my stroke was a little shaky or my alignment was a little off but the balls went in...and now ww does not understand the change...but i know....i had to believe in me...

this is not about the lessons, the drills, the teachers (although god bless and thanks)or even about my level of skill.. this is about something else.....i believe

blu

Perk
12-12-2002, 10:52 AM
I find in buying new equipment for any sport, for me its pool/bowling/golf its another excuse to place more time into playing. If I can slip something past my fiance, then I have reason to spend 5 hours at the PH instead of 1 or 2...Or sub on bowling leagues more than just my normal one day a week...Or golf more scrambles/tourneys in the summer......

As far as pool goes...buyin a new cue for most is just status...look at how many people have the same cue they have used for 10...20...years....

Just my thoughts...(Didnt even put my push for Predators in)

silverbullet
12-12-2002, 11:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Perk:</font><hr> I find in buying new equipment for any sport, for me its pool/bowling/golf its another excuse to place more time into playing. If I can slip something past my fiance, then I have reason to spend 5 hours at the PH instead of 1 or 2...Or sub on bowling leagues more than just my normal one day a week...Or golf more scrambles/tourneys in the summer......

As far as pool goes...buyin a new cue for most is just status...look at how many people have the same cue they have used for 10...20...years....

Just my thoughts...(Didnt even put my push for Predators in) <hr /></blockquote>

i am sure that it is all in the head but if you spend a lot for equipment, you are right, you feel guilty if you are not using it.

i am 50. sometimes i have slight shakes so i do like the unilock aspect. do other brands have that too?can custom cue makers put that unilock thingie on too?

although there are personal preferences/or needs, apart from specail considerations i think 'it isnt the wand, it is the magician'

the preditor works good (so do others) but ya gotta admit jer's are much prettier and they hit nice too /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

blu

Popcorn
12-12-2002, 11:51 AM
Although I have a few cues, the cue I use the most I have had for more them 20 years. I have had several new shafts made and bought a few used. I don't know if it is just me, but I never like a new shaft when I first get it. There is something about a new shaft where it does not play like an older shaft. It seems the longer you use it the better it gets. It may be the wood changes from hitting balls or it get seasoned from chalk and hand oils I don't know but I like my older shafts much better. By the way I never deep clean a shaft, just keep it wiped off and smooth. I like the imbedded chalk and power. I believe in some way it may case harden the shaft, and maybe that is the reason they seem to play better. I like the way it looks and feels as well. I hate white shafts. Am I alone?

silverbullet
12-12-2002, 12:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Although I have a few cues, the cue I use the most I have had for more them 20 years. I have had several new shafts made and bought a few used. I don't know if it is just me, but I never like a new shaft when I first get it. There is something about a new shaft where it does not play like an older shaft. It seems the longer you use it the better it gets. It may be the wood changes from hitting balls or it get seasoned from chalk and hand oils I don't know but I like my older shafts much better. By the way I never deep clean a shaft, just keep it wiped off and smooth. I like the imbedded chalk and power. I believe in some way it may case harden the shaft, and maybe that is the reason they seem to play better. I like the way it looks and feels as well. I hate white shafts. Am I alone? <hr /></blockquote>

sounds like that old pair of tennis shoes i finally had to retire to the shelf. couldnt throw them away, they had been such loyal companions. and when i walk by them and see them, i feel sad and i want us to run again free like the wind.

yeah, the old shaft was your old friend, i am thinking. the new one is llike an imposter until you break it in. i am sure there is some physics reason to this, popcorn, but i aint no physics xpert like randy but sure do see the emotion of hving to retire an old friend and takin up an imposter in his place.

imo, dispassionately, a cue or shaft is just a piece of wood but emotionally now we become lovers, our cue and I, we become one.

I have ta love ya guy. didnt know you had such sentimentality in ya /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

blu

SpiderMan
12-12-2002, 12:41 PM
There are quite a few people manufacturing these now, and probably it's not a bad idea for cheaply getting a "high grain count" blank. I've thought about ordering some of them from Atlas myself, just to have a look-see.

I have to wonder, though, if these flat-lams wouldn't have much greater stiffness in the edge direction than in the flat direction, even more so than "real" grain.

I really prefer the idea of radial lamination for symmetry and warp resistance, but obviously that requires much more tooling and a more complex process to make. Even non-predator radial blanks are expensive. Since Predator also has a patent on the reduced-end-mass tachnology, I can understand them wanting to get their money before the intellectual-property protection runs out.

Actually, the $124 or so it costs to get a Predator blank from Atlas isn't unreasonable, considering that it is finish-sanded, ferrule and tip installed, and has the "intellectual-property premium". The same supplier sells an unfinished garden-variety 8-piece radial shaft blank for $70, with no ferrule, no tip, no finish, and no technology.

SpiderMan

eg8r
12-12-2002, 01:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
?..."The wishy-washy will not inherit diddly-squat." <hr /></blockquote> Ken, I have never heard this before, but I think some might not understand it. Lets make it easy and offer another variation for OPC and others...The wishy-WORSHY will not inherit diddly-squat. OPC is adamant that this is the correct way to say "wash."

eg8r /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Popcorn
12-12-2002, 01:26 PM
That has nothing to do with it. It plays better in my opinion.

SpiderMan
12-12-2002, 01:30 PM
Regarding cost, after thinking about it I don't think that Predator is out of line. They have an investment in the intellectual property, and a big investment in tooling. Making that radial splice isn't as simple as glueing together flat layers - note that you can buy a flat-laminated maple dowel 1"x30" pretty cheap, $11 from Atlas, and they charge $70 for "their" radial blank.

Also, the Predator patent will run out in just a few years so they don't have long to recover their investments. Once the patent issue is past, who wants to bet that Meucci and others (who are now dissing the product) won't start offering low-squirt shafts with reduced end mass?

Now the $124 or so it costs to get a Predator blank from Atlas doesn't seem so unreasonable when you consider that it is finish-sanded, ferrule and tip installed, and has the "intellectual-property premium". The same supplier sells an unfinished garden-variety 8-piece radial shaft blank for $70, with no ferrule, no tip, no finish, and no technology. So, a lot of the cost is tied up in making that radial splice, which I do think is better for both stiffness symmetry as well as warp resistance.

If you take that $70 garden-variety radial blank, say that the tapering, ferrule, tip, and finish sanding is worth about $40, then you're up to $110 and there's only $14 difference for the end-mass technology in the Predator.

BTW, I don't shoot with the Predator, but I think the technology is sound and the prices are in line. They innovated, and they have a limited time to (rightfully) charge a premium. This "patent premium" is far less than in other industries. Look at how much NyQuil cost, versus the generic copies now that the patent has run out.

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
12-12-2002, 01:34 PM
Y'all don't know nothin'. In Texas it's WARSH.

SpiderMan

Fred Agnir
12-12-2002, 03:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Y'all don't know nothin'. In Texas it's WARSH.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

With absolutely nothing to do with pool, I offer up the following word: AUNT.

My Michigan relatives say "ant"
My Boston friends say something similar to 'ont' or 'ahhnt' or 'awnt.' It rhymes with the french word for aunt: tante. It also rhymes with "can't" for them: cahhn't.

My Tennesse relatives say "ain't."
and my Conway, MA (farm country) friends say "aren't." (grammatically correct?)

Fred &lt;~~~ if Texas says "Warsh", then Boston drops the 'r' and says "Wash," which would be correct for once.

SPetty
12-12-2002, 04:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> if Texas says "Warsh"...<hr /></blockquote>Okay, I was gonna let this go because Spiderman ain't even from around here, but I can't let the lies and misinformation go on... Texans do NOT say "warsh". The only people I ever heard say that weren't from 'round these parts. I think it's a term from Oklahoma or Alabama or Missouri... /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SPetty~~~born 'n' raised...

OnePocketChamp
12-12-2002, 05:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The wishy-WORSHY will not inherit diddly-squat. OPC is adamant that this is the correct way to say "wash."
<hr /></blockquote>
Now that makes all the sense to me, thanks for including the correct pronunciation! And who ever said that guys from Florida were not sensitive to others feelings. Again, thanks, you are truly a friend.

rackmup
12-12-2002, 05:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf/silverbullet:</font><hr> what do you define as a beginner <hr /></blockquote>

be·gin·ner (bi-'gi-n&amp;r)
noun
one that begins something; especially, an inexperienced person.

or, if you prefer:

novice, apprentice, colt, freshman, neophyte, newcomer, novitiate, rookie, tenderfoot, tyro

Any way you paint it, you are a beginner.

Regards,

Ken (couldn't find a definition for 'smaginner')

dave
12-12-2002, 06:00 PM
WOW! Eleven hundred+ views and eighty+ replies on a thread about a shaft design. I quess my focus needs to be redirected.

Rod
12-12-2002, 08:10 PM
Popcorn, no your not alone, I like old ones as well. Pure white ones are to slick and bright. I like the little bit of drag from an old hand oiled glossy shaft. And yes there is chalk in mine too.

jjinfla
12-12-2002, 08:31 PM
I have had a Pred for about a year and a half and really liked it. Then last week I was at the club practicing and everything was going great when I noticed that my tip seemed more worn than it should be since I just had it replaced a couple months ago. It was then that I noticed that I had inadvertantly put on my original McDermott shaft instead of the Predator shaft. Since I really didn't notice any difference while playing I have to assume that the magic of the Pred exists more in the mind of the player than in the shaft. Jake

Fred Agnir
12-13-2002, 07:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> if Texas says "Warsh"...<hr /></blockquote>Okay, I was gonna let this go because Spiderman ain't even from around here, but I can't let the lies and misinformation go on... Texans do NOT say "warsh". The only people I ever heard say that weren't from 'round these parts. I think it's a term from Oklahoma or Alabama or Missouri... /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SPetty~~~born 'n' raised...
<hr /></blockquote>

Well... lot's of people say it. My mother-in-law says "warsh," and she's from Tenn. Even in Mass., there's areas of people saying "warsh."

I'm sure there's a million people in Texas that say "warsh."

Sort of like "idear" or "often."

Fred

Harold Acosta
12-13-2002, 08:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> It was then that I noticed that I had inadvertantly put on my original McDermott shaft instead of the Predator shaft. Since I really didn't notice any difference while playing I have to assume that the magic of the Pred exists more in the mind of the player than in the shaft. Jake <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">"I have to assume that the magic of the Pred exists more in the mind of the player than in the shaft." </font color>

[b] <font color="red"> EXACTLY!!! </font color>

Scott Lee
12-13-2002, 10:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Your problem with the wood has more to do with your supplier then the availability of good shaft wood. If you are dumping 50% I would find another supplier. <hr /></blockquote>

Popcorn...That is not unusual! Most cuemakers are very particular about the grain, etc., of the shafts they make.
Both Cognoscenti and Samsara reject a considerable percentage of the shafts they are able to get. It is not the supplier...it is the supply.

Scott Lee

SpiderMan
12-19-2002, 06:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> if Texas says "Warsh"...<hr /></blockquote>Okay, I was gonna let this go because Spiderman ain't even from around here, but I can't let the lies and misinformation go on... Texans do NOT say "warsh". <hr /></blockquote>

Sure they do. Drive east on I-30 some weekend. Not only were they born here, they never ventured 10 miles from the placental origin. And they use a "warshrag" every Saturday night, whether they need it or not /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SpiderMan