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View Full Version : Where to strike CB for max accuracy on long cuts?



Leviathan
12-11-2002, 07:34 AM
I find that I shoot spot shots and other longish cut shots most accurately when I strike the CB with about 3/4 of a tip of follow. Where do the better players prefer to strike the CB when playing these shots?

D.M.

Tom_In_Cincy
12-11-2002, 08:08 AM
or of a tip of high is about normal for me on long shots. I find that this little bit of top on the cue ball makes it roll better, keeping it on track.

silverbullet
12-11-2002, 08:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Leviathan:</font><hr> I find that I shoot spot shots and other longish cut shots most accurately when I strike the CB with about 3/4 of a tip of follow. Where do the better players prefer to strike the CB when playing these shots?

D.M. <hr /></blockquote>

A little follow. Sometimes a little english if wanted for shape on next shot with relatively slow stroke speed. Have to be careful with eng though on long shots since I am not too strong there are sensitive variations.

Oh yeah, you asked for advanced. Dang it, I am not advanced but might be 20 years from now if I live that long LOL

blu

Eric.
12-11-2002, 09:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr>
A little follow. Sometimes a little english if wanted for shape on next shot with relatively slow stroke speed. Have to be careful with eng though on long shots since I am not too strong there are sensitive variations.


blu <hr /></blockquote>

Blu,

Wouldn't English on a long shot, hitting with a "slow stroke", cause the CB to swerve and therefore missing the shot? I believe you want to hit it pure (no side whatsoever).

Eric &gt;just my opinion

Fred Agnir
12-11-2002, 09:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Leviathan:</font><hr> I find that I shoot spot shots and other longish cut shots most accurately when I strike the CB with about 3/4 of a tip of follow. Where do the better players prefer to strike the CB when playing these shots?

D.M. <hr /></blockquote>
That's the going rule of thumb. It's the natural roll shot described by Byrne, Jewett, and others.

Fred

Chris Cass
12-11-2002, 10:53 AM
Well,

As usual I'm lost. I just need to know where I need to be next then, I'll figure where I need to hit it. I guess?

Regards,

C.C.

silverbullet
12-11-2002, 01:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr>
A little follow. Sometimes a little english if wanted for shape on next shot with relatively slow stroke speed. Have to be careful with eng though on long shots since I am not too strong there are sensitive variations.


blu <hr /></blockquote>

Blu,

Wouldn't English on a long shot, hitting with a "slow stroke", cause the CB to swerve and therefore missing the shot? I believe you want to hit it pure (no side whatsoever).

Eric &gt;just my opinion <hr /></blockquote>

thanks eric.by slow speed, some would call it med as it is my personal stroke speed. have used very little likt one tip to ,cheat the pocket but any more than that, i leave to the xperts. i can hit it straight but a slt inside is easier imo to prevent a scratch than a stop shot when the ball is so close to the pocket entrance and dead center unless you want to try to kick the tit LOL. ww likes A LITTLE OUTSIDE and i quit arguing with him oabout it. i think it comes down to knowing your stengths and weaknesses. along with the spin of the cb away from the pocket or rather away from the rail, it also depends what shape you want and direction and angle you want the cb coming off the rail. stroke speed is important to create the desired position.

another thing, there are safety considerations depending on where their balls are, even if i miss the ball a tad, i may be leaving a pocket tied up and leaving them bad and long.

o f course eric, you probably know all this already(and were just trying to be helpful to me) and i apologize if i am seeming to give advice to a more advanced player. this is just what has worked for me so far and i may change later, who know.

really im not good enough to explain this very well, just do what seems right. look to,cc, randy g and other xperts to xplain in more technical terms

blu

silverbullet
12-11-2002, 02:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Well,

As usual I'm lost. I just need to know where I need to be next then, I'll figure where I need to hit it. I guess?

Regards,

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>

Sounds like a plan!!!!

blu

Eric.
12-11-2002, 03:43 PM
Silver,

On long cut shots(the original post) you want accuracy. Putting English on the CB reduces accuracy, especially at long distances. If you're using English on a long cut shot with a medium stroke, one or both will happen:
You'll miss the cut shot due to spinning off the aim line or the English will wear off and if you are fortunate to still pot the ball, you may not see enough spin to get where you intended to. Best bet-concede perfect po on the long cut shots and use CB speed(high or low English is OK) to get as close as possible to where you want to be. Don't forget, if you don't make the shot, perfect position becomes "Leave".

Eric &gt;DISCLAIMER-not a BCA Cert. instructor, portions of this broadcast cannot be reproduced without express consent of the NFL, use under adult supervision and DO NOT drive while reading this post.

Leviathan
12-11-2002, 05:52 PM
Thanks for your very helpful replies.

So good players use center top when this will yield good position, and they use whatever English is called for when center top won't yield good position. Makes perfect sense. I usually begin my practice sessions with 15 left-to-right spot shots and 15 right-to-left spot shots; I think I'd better start shooting some spot shots with right and left English also.

--Duke Mantee

Train hard, fight easy (Field Marshal Suvarov)

silverbullet
12-11-2002, 06:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> Silver,

On long cut shots(the original post) you want accuracy. Putting English on the CB reduces accuracy, especially at long distances. If you're using English on a long cut shot with a medium stroke, one or both will happen:
You'll miss the cut shot due to spinning off the aim line or the English will wear off and if you are fortunate to still pot the ball, you may not see enough spin to get where you intended to. Best bet-concede perfect po on the long cut shots and use CB speed(high or low English is OK) to get as close as possible to where you want to be. Don't forget, if you don't make the shot, perfect position becomes "Leave".

Eric &gt;DISCLAIMER-not a BCA Cert. instructor, portions of this broadcast cannot be reproduced without express consent of the NFL, use under adult supervision and DO NOT drive while reading this post. <hr /></blockquote>

Interesting. If the long cut is a distance from the corner pocket, I never use english. If the long cut is in the pocket, I use english or a combo of hitting the tit and the ball or say 1 inch from the tit,to kick the ball in depending on the shot.

to add in another kink, some use a tad of oe on almost every shot, long or short to coompensate for throw. these are mostly proficient folks and i do not have a high accuracy for this method so compensate for throw but use centerball except in rare situations.

i havent reached the point in my pool career where i like oe. every book will say oe is easier than ie but it just seems the opposite for me. but anyway, seldom use any of it and guess one day will learn all that complicated stuff.

I did do an experiment with these though with and without eng(centerball follow,rt and lt on a straight in shot catecorner the long shot. All of it worked fine but i still think as cc says, it depends on the next shot, what you need to get shape on.

Now I am VERY careful with english. 90% of my shots are centerball with sometimes high or draw, using rails and speed for most position. still in a learning curve on this. just reallly starting to work on position so rarely use eng as that adds another variable and requires proficiency and it can be a crutch too as other pointed out to me. long shots are a strength for me. i have more trouble with side pocket shots. if given a choice on a shot between the two i will send a difficult long shot to the pocket. so have been practicing side shots too....gees guess it will never end...there is so much to learn....

thanks for your info and

silverbullet
12-11-2002, 06:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Leviathan:</font><hr> Thanks for your very helpful replies.

So good players use center top when this will yield good position, and they use whatever English is called for when center top won't yield good position. Makes perfect sense. I usually begin my practice sessions with 15 left-to-right spot shots and 15 right-to-left spot shots; I think I'd better start shooting some spot shots with right and left English also.

--Duke Mantee

Train hard, fight easy (Field Marshal Suvarov) <hr /></blockquote>

are your spot shots in the pocket or on the headspot.coming from a nonexpert point of view the english becomes more risky the farther the ob is from the pocket. also ball speed is a factor with a slower speed increasing the margin or error due to giving the cb more opportunity to spin away from the ob, i think....i think . if i am wrong....randy or someone can correct.

i am only a regular person.

blu

Leviathan
12-11-2002, 07:16 PM
Silverbullet: By spot shot, I mean a shot in which the OB is placed on the foot spot and the CB is placed behind the headstring. I practice shooting spot shots from positions A and B in the diagram below.--Regards, D.M.

START(
%AO7O4%BB0\9%CB2B0%DA8A9%EB1]0%FB1B0%GB3\9%HB2B0%IA9B1%JB3B1
%KB4]0%LB2A9%MB4]0%NB4]0%OB3A9%PB4]0%Qi2W7%Ri3F0%eB9a4
)END

Chris Cass
12-12-2002, 04:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr> look to,cc, randy g and other xperts to xplain in more technical terms
blu <hr /></blockquote>

BW,

There's nothing wrong with telling someone how, you would shoot it or what, you would do in any situation. Just put IMHO or IMO. That is good enough and doesn't sound as if your schooling someone who knows it already. IMO

As for experts like myself go. I'm not an expert, nor a BCA Master instructor either. I'm a player as anyone here is. So, when using my name and I appreciate your compliment. Please don't lump me in with RandyG. he's a Master BCA instructor and that can be insulting to him. Don't ask why, if he charges you double next time. LOL It also wouldn't be a bad idea to capitalize his name. I think he's earned it. IMHO BTW, did you see how technical my advice was? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~thinks G-force stands for RandyG. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Eric.
12-12-2002, 01:09 PM
Good luck to you in your pursuits.

Eric

Perk
12-12-2002, 01:29 PM
Its funny that this question on where to strike the CB for a long cut shot, that no one here yet has mentioned the stroke. The stroke plays an important part on where a person can contact the CB...

I agree that slightly above center allows for the CB to keep its natural roll and eliminate any accidental english applied by an improper stroke.

&lt;---had heard that accuracy is higher with a less elavated cue, and using the top part of cue ball keeps the cue almost parallel....

dave
12-12-2002, 05:35 PM
I'm with you on this one Chris! The english (if any) or the tip placement on the cue ball that I choose is determined by the path I need to get shape. I'm always surprised to read that people put a certain type of spin/english in order to make a certain type of shot. This really limits your pattern play options. Usually there are choices available. There ARE exceptions, such as the need to masse' a ball in order to get the hit or the use of spin to counteract throw; but on the vast majority of shots, english is determined by the path to position on the next ball. JMO

dddd
12-12-2002, 10:39 PM
earlier here posted was the right mindset.
shoot the shot needed to play the next shot, be as accurate as you can, but one without the other is useless.

Fred Agnir
12-13-2002, 08:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Well,

As usual I'm lost. I just need to know where I need to be next then, I'll figure where I need to hit it. I guess?

Regards,

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>
I wanted to respond to this post, since I see follow-ups that went off the original path with some misunderstanding.

The original question was basically asking where you hit the cueball on long shots where your only concern is to make the ball. A spot shot was the example.

I will be so bold as to say that every decent player has figured out that cinching a long shot like this is done with a natural follow shot, which is struck somewhere in the 75% height of the cueball.

Fred

dave
12-13-2002, 09:05 AM
"I find that I shoot spot shots and other longish cut shots most accurately when I strike the CB with about 3/4 of a tip
of follow. Where do the better players prefer to strike the CB when playing these shots ? " D.M.
________________________

"The original question was basically asking where you hit the cueball on long shots where your only concern is to make the ball. A spot shot was the example."
________________________


No it doesn't. The original question says nothing about the only concern being making the shot. Seldom will I shoot a shot with no regard for the resulting position; even a spot shot during practice. This is not to say that I disagree with you that top spin on a long shot might not be helpful to some people on long shots IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS, though.

Fred Agnir
12-13-2002, 09:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dave:</font><hr>
"The original question was basically asking where you hit the cueball on long shots where your only concern is to make the ball. A spot shot was the example."
________________________


No it doesn't. The original question says nothing about the only concern being making the shot<hr /></blockquote>

You might want to read the name of the thread.

Fred

silverbullet
12-13-2002, 01:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> As for experts like myself go. I'm not an expert, nor a BCA Master instructor either. I'm a player as anyone here is. So, when using my name and I appreciate your compliment. Please don't lump me in with RandyG. he's a Master BCA instructor and that can be insulting to him. Don't ask why, if he charges you double next time. LOL It also wouldn't be a bad idea to capitalize his name. I think he's earned it. IMHO BTW, did you see how technical my advice was? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

RandyG certainly does deserve to have his name in caps or maybe we could give him an honorary degree in addition to Master BCA . Instead of giving him a PhD, We could give him a PD for pool doctor so he would be Randy G, Master Bca Instructor, PD /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

12-15-2002, 08:32 PM
i hit them pretty much the same as you described 3/4 follow. sometimes ill get some wacky idea to use english to get shape on the next ball.....but most of the time i figure if i can pull this shot outta my keyster no matter where the cue ball ends up i can make that shot too LOL

Troy
12-15-2002, 09:12 PM
Use of backhand english will greatly reduce CB "swerve".

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr>.....giving the cb more opportunity to spin away from the ob, i think....i think . if i am wrong....randy or someone can correct.

i am only a regular person.
blu<hr /></blockquote>