PDA

View Full Version : Eight ball rules



Hopster
12-14-2002, 06:32 PM
Hey guys
I dont play in a league or anything, just casual with friends. What are the standard rules concerning if someone shoots at a ball and doesnt hit it, does the next person get ball in hand or is ball behind the line or what? Whats the standard ruling ?
Also if youre shooting at the eight and you dont make contact, do you lose or is it ball in hand for the next player ?
I know if you scratch shooting at the eight, you lose.
There are so many damm rules and variations, you need a lawyer to decipher everything before you break. lol
Then someone one days says something about Slop. Now i play a bit of straight pool and all you got to do is call the ball and the pocket, period. It goes in, it dont matter if it hits every other ball on the table, so long as it goes in the hole you called, thats it. Now some guy says you got to call every carom and whatnot in eight ball. Whats the story on this one ?
Any help would be appreciated.
I like nine ball better,a lot simpler.

Rod
12-14-2002, 06:43 PM
Rules depend on where your playing sometimes. Here is a link to the rules- http://www.bca-pool.com/play/

Barbara
12-14-2002, 07:00 PM
And Hopster, if you get a little confused in a situation, maybe we can get houstondan and his sidekick, Richard Rhorer, or even Bruce Baker, Patti Ireland, or Roger Glenn to sign on and help us out with the verbage.

Just naming some of the ones that wrote the rules...

Barbara /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hopster
12-14-2002, 08:11 PM
Thanks for the link, Rod. It helped make quite a few things clearer.
One question. It says that combination shots are legal except when using the eight ball unless you have another ball that you can use.
Am i to interpert this as you can use a solid colored ball to make a stripe if you have stripes ? I always thought you had to make contact with a ball from your group first.
Otherwise, everything else is pretty cut and dried.

12-14-2002, 08:23 PM
what barbara doesn't mention is that she is a bca-certified referess. took the tests and everything. she probably knows more about the rules than any of us.

clearing up a couple of things mentioned:

scratching on the 8 is not loss of game unless the 8 went in. it's ball in hand.

you always have to hit a ball of your suit first until they are all gone. it's ok to use the 8 as the middle ball in a 3 (or more) ball combo as long as one of yours was the first hit.

8 on the break is not a win.

even if the table is open, hitting the 8 first is a ball in hand foul.

and, yes, interpreting some of the rules does get pretty sticky.

dan

Rod
12-14-2002, 10:11 PM
Hopster, you can use a solid to pocket a stripe or vise versa. Note this is only after the break when the table is considered open.

Hopster
12-14-2002, 11:29 PM
Thanks again, Rod and Dan. You cleared up most of what was unclear. I just started playing again after about a 7 year layoff and there arent many straight pool players out here. They mainly play nine ball and one pocket and eight ball. Of the three i like eight ball the best. One pocket seems just too boring to me.Im sure it isnt, its just that ive never played it.
Anyway, once again, thanks.

Cueless Joey
12-15-2002, 01:13 AM
Hops, quit playing 8-ball. It's a great source of arguments. Plus, it might not improve your game ( shorter distance between balls and too many balls to shoot at). /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Play 9-ball.

Leviathan
12-15-2002, 10:13 AM
Jeez, Joey, you had me going--I choked on my coffee!

He's kidding you, Hopster: 8-ball is a great game, with plenty of opportunity for intelligent planning, subtlety, and shotmaking. The short-distances, too-many-balls business would apply equally to straight pool, and smart players agree that straight is a great teaching game.

As for arguments about rules--you play with fools, you're gonna get arguments, IMO. I should know; I always play with at least one fool.

D.M.

Cueless Joey
12-15-2002, 10:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Leviathan:</font><hr> Jeez, Joey, you had me going--I choked on my coffee!

He's kidding you, Hopster: 8-ball is a great game, with plenty of opportunity for intelligent planning, subtlety, and shotmaking. The short-distances, too-many-balls business would apply equally to straight pool, and smart players agree that straight is a great teaching game.

As for arguments about rules--you play with fools, you're gonna get arguments, IMO. I should know; I always play with at least one fool.

D.M.
<hr /></blockquote>
Lev, I used to play this 8-ball tourney. Bar tables with "bar" rules. I got sick of it and printed the BCA rule book of their site. The fools were shocked about the ball in hand rules, you don't win snapping the 8-ball on the break, you don't lose missing the 8 and scratching, open table after the break no matter what, hit the rail after contact etc. Mind you this was a 5-dollar double elimination race to ONE tourney with free pizza. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Prolly the only regular tourney I made money of. I quit it after two months. Too many fools there /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Ken
12-15-2002, 10:50 AM
Bar eight ball is a far more precise game than BCA eight ball. Bar rules have the advantage of changing to fit the intent of the players whereas the BCA cannot change their rules often. In bars a far more gentlemanly form of the game is played. You are expected to play your balls with the intention of winning the game, not putting your opponent in a difficult position. That is what is known as "dirty pool". You don't see pro players even attempting some of the great shots bar players might make.

Bars are on the cutting edge of the game and the rules are modified to bring out the best aspects of the game. Slop is not allowed and you must call all aspects of your shots. The BCA version of the game is far too easy with the "ball in hand" anywhere rule and the foregiveness of making errors when shooting the eight ball.

The BCA is in the dark ages and needs to advance the game by modernizing their rules in order to foster greater interest in pool.
KenCT

cheesemouse
12-15-2002, 10:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> Bar eight ball is a far more precise game than BCA eight ball. Bar rules have the advantage of changing to fit the intent of the players whereas the BCA cannot change their rules often. In bars a far more gentlemanly form of the game is played. You are expected to play your balls with the intention of winning the game, not putting your opponent in a difficult position. That is what is known as "dirty pool". You don't see pro players even attempting some of the great shots bar players might make.

Bars are on the cutting edge of the game and the rules are modified to bring out the best aspects of the game. Slop is not allowed and you must call all aspects of your shots. The BCA version of the game is far too easy with the "ball in hand" anywhere rule and the foregiveness of making errors when shooting the eight ball.

The BCA is in the dark ages and needs to advance the game by modernizing their rules in order to foster greater interest in pool.
KenCT <hr /></blockquote>

Please tell me your not serious Ken... /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif If your serious you take my breath away... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Cueless Joey
12-15-2002, 11:02 AM
Ken, thanks for clearing that up.
Btw, have you ever met Mr. Bar?
I still haven't met him or seen any of his rule book. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I was playing this fool one time and I scratched on the break. He then says "we'll keep playing even though you lost already". I asked him what rulebook did that come from. He says "pro" rules. I asked the fool if he knows where they hold the world 8-ball. He had no clue. I proceeded in naming the world 8-ball champs since Efren won it in 96 and up. He shut up we played and I told him what the rules are.

Tom_In_Cincy
12-15-2002, 11:49 AM
Ken,
If your reply is tounge-n-cheek, good one.. otherwise, by your reasoning, I would never be able to play in a bar again. The competition would be too tough.

But, if a bar room player would like to come to a pool hall and play by the World Pool Association Rules.. I would be happy to compete, I might have a chance.

Leviathan
12-15-2002, 12:35 PM
Have you ever noticed that tables play funny after pizza-league nights? Strange but true.

And then there's the dark, mysterious jungle of APA-rules 8-ball. The owner of our local room wants to hook up with APA, but he can't get in touch with them 'cause I won't tell him how to spell "APA".

D.M.

Wally_in_Cincy
12-16-2002, 07:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Leviathan:</font><hr> Have you ever noticed that tables play funny after pizza-league nights? Strange but true.

And then there's the dark, mysterious jungle of APA-rules 8-ball. The owner of our local room wants to hook up with APA, but he can't get in touch with them 'cause I won't tell him how to spell "APA".

D.M. <hr /></blockquote>

To me APA rules make more sense than BCA rules. And they are much easier for new players to accept and understand. I understand the BCA is the self-appointed rules maker, but that does not mean they make the best rules. JMO

Ryan
12-16-2002, 12:52 PM
Even though the BCA rules call for a ball in hand after a scratch on the 8 (assuming the 8 doesn't drop), I would love to see someone try to bring this up in a "rough" bar when money is on the line.

Yes, they are the "rules", but they aren't the rules that the majority of people follow. When playing in a bar setting, you had better make sure the rules are understood before you start putting money on the line. If you start whipping out BCA rules against a disgruntled opponent after the fact, you might end up with some trouble.

BCA rules aren't worth anything unless each party understands them.

Perk
12-16-2002, 01:12 PM
I play in BCA tourneys, and tourneys that use BCA/APA rules pending on where I am at. I also play in a local "Bar" league that uses "Bar" rules.

Call every shot as you see or plan on hittin it. About the only thing you dont have to call is the short rail. Any kiss, bank, combo you use has to be called. Although there is no "safety" play per se, everyone realizes how to make misses look safe. The real players tend to know how to make it look like an accident. It keeps the bar element going. You can runout from anywhere when your opponent makes an attempt at a silly shot.

At any bar you go into around here, everyone justs asks what the bar rules are....usually like this...

Money breaks, No gambling, Call Everything. An unsaid "No" dirty pool. But of course everyone gambles right? Maybe not for money, but for time at table, drinks, status. And "No" dirty pool? The players that play on the table the longest during a fri/sat night know how to play safe without it being safe...

Just my bar room thoughts while sitting at work!

Wally_in_Cincy
12-16-2002, 01:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ryan:</font><hr> Even though the BCA rules call for a ball in hand after a scratch on the 8 (assuming the 8 doesn't drop), I would love to see someone try to bring this up in a "rough" bar when money is on the line.

Yes, they are the "rules", but they aren't the rules that the majority of people follow. When playing in a bar setting, you had better make sure the rules are understood before you start putting money on the line. If you start whipping out BCA rules against a disgruntled opponent after the fact, you might end up with some trouble.

BCA rules aren't worth anything unless each party understands them. <hr /></blockquote>

I guess my point was that APA rules more closely resemble "Bar rules" than BCA rules do.

Yep I know all about those "bar-room rules" /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif and I would never whip out a BCA or APA rule book in that setting. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Alfie
12-16-2002, 02:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> To me APA rules make more sense than BCA rules. <hr /></blockquote> Specifically which rules make more sense and why?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> And they are much easier for new players to accept and understand. <hr /></blockquote>
I agree that they are a bit simpler, but only a tad bit, IMO. It's not like you have to be a genius in order to understand the BCA rules.

Wally_in_Cincy
12-16-2002, 02:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Alfie:</font><hr> Specifically which rules make more sense and why?
<hr /></blockquote>

The rules that are contradictory to the bar-room rules I grew up with are these:

1. 8-ball on the break is not a win.

2. If you make only solids (or stripes) on the break the table is still open.

3. 8-ball in wrong pocket is not a loss.


I do like the call-pocket rule in BCA though. I wish APA had that.

SPetty
12-16-2002, 03:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> The rules that are contradictory to the bar-room rules I grew up with are these:

3. 8-ball in wrong pocket is not a loss.
<hr /></blockquote>hahahaha - someone's been yanking Wally's chain again!

Wally, 8-ball in the wrong pocket is a loss in every single set of rules I've ever seen, read or heard. (Except for the BCA 8 on the break rule, but that's not what you're referring to, right?)

Alfie
12-16-2002, 04:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> The rules that are contradictory to the bar-room rules I grew up with are these:

1. 8-ball on the break is not a win.

2. If you make only solids (or stripes) on the break the table is still open.

3. 8-ball in wrong pocket is not a loss. <hr /></blockquote> (#3 above is not a BCA rule, but I know the one you mean.)

Are you saying that the rules you grew up with make more sense than the BCA rules? If so, how so? What makes them the better rule set?

Wally_in_Cincy
12-17-2002, 07:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Alfie:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> The rules that are contradictory to the bar-room rules I grew up with are these:

1. 8-ball on the break is not a win.

2. If you make only solids (or stripes) on the break the table is still open.

3. 8-ball in wrong pocket is not a loss. <hr /></blockquote> (#3 above is not a BCA rule, but I know the one you mean.)

<font color="red"> mea culpa for not doing better research. IIRC in BCA if you scratch on the 8 it's not a loss. That must have been what I was thinking of. </font color>

<font color="green"> here it is: </font color>

<font color="blue">....When the 8-ball is the legal object ball, a scratch or foul is not loss of game if the 8-ball is not pocketed or jumped from the table. </font color>

Are you saying that the rules you grew up with make more sense than the BCA rules? If so, how so? What makes them the better rule set? <hr /></blockquote>

I didn't say they were better. I personally disdain bar-room rules. They make it easier for the crappier player to win. I just said APA rules were more like what most recreational players are familiar with.