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View Full Version : Can the way that Efren and Busty play be Taught ?



bigbro6060
12-16-2002, 11:44 PM
I personally don't think so, it's like John McEnroe's tennis serve. His brilliance made it work for him but everyone who tried to emulate him failed.

I think only the breaks of Efren and Busty could be copied

phil in sofla
12-17-2002, 12:29 AM
Taught to children growing up over there, yes. To people already playing? I don't think so.

Cueless Joey
12-17-2002, 03:31 AM
I wouldn't recommend it. These two are freaks. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Better mimick Parica, Archer, Davenport, Hall or Strickland.

JohnnyP
12-17-2002, 04:42 AM
Can you guys clue me in on what they do? I haven't seen them play.

landshark1002000
12-18-2002, 03:42 AM
This is a great original question. Your post goes right to the heart of the main issue in pool instruction today.
In a strange way, Bustamante and Reyes play just like everybody does. Only R and B are WAY MORE
talented too. But their style is just as "natural" as any amateur. They may be more relaxed and fluid than the
rest of us. But, in my opinion, that's because they aren't playing a self-conscious game of pool. And self-
conscious is the point.
The Strickland group are all students of "modern" instruction. They have a "shot routine". And an
essential step for them is to mentally double-check their approach, stance, and stroke. Like an astronaut
going thru his pre-launch checklist, the Strickland group is repeating a mental exercise prior to release. This
technique makes the player very self-conscious.
The difference with them and B and R is simple. Bustamante and Reyes have no mental "mantra". And
nobody else does either; until they get "instructed". The assumption is that this mantra will block out
distracting thoughts. But B and R have no mantra. And the only distracting thought is: "How'd they win that
title and get that big check? You can't WIN without a mantra."
So the forty-thousand dollar question? Is this modern pool instruction for everyone? The Phillipine players
don't use it. And, despite this, they take home the money. But our instruction books and a lot of
instructors promote it as the "best method". Some even call it the "correct" way to play.
It's sold and packaged in books by best-selling Champions (with ghost writers). They say, this is the right
way to approach the table, make a bridge, stroke, and aim. It's all been photographed, so it must be right.
Lots of us think they're right. After all, he's a champion; he knows what's right.
Then naturally playing Bustamante shows up, nabs the purse and some of us start wondering.

Icon of Sin
12-18-2002, 10:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigbro6060:</font><hr> I personally don't think so, it's like John McEnroe's tennis serve. His brilliance made it work for him but everyone who tried to emulate him failed.

I think only the breaks of Efren and Busty could be copied <hr /></blockquote>

Efren's got a great break, decent spread on a soft hit plus the 1-ball almost drops in the side everytime... i think his break would be the hardest thing to emulate.

bigbro6060
12-18-2002, 05:33 PM
In the last say 15-20 years, techniques in sports have been studied scientifically way way more than they were in the past. There is no doubt that the elite talent always rises to the top, like Efren and Busty have. They have been playing literally for decades and so their technique has become part of them. Taking Tennis as an analogy again (i've studied and played a lot of tennis in the past), in the 70s and 80s, players had a lot more style differences and idiosyncracies. E.g. Jimmy Connors flat/sliced two handed backhand, McEnroe's serve, Edberg's kick serve, Borg's looping topspin forehand. Connors got to the top in spite of a ordinary serve, Mcenroe in spite of fairly ordinary groundstrokes and Edberg in spite of probably one of the worst professional forehands in history !

Now just about all junior tennis players nowadays are taught the 5 segmented semi western forehand, popularised by Agassi and others. You will rarely now find a young player who doesn't play like this. There is no doubt it's a more effective shot that any forehands of the past but of course the individual style has gone.

Whether this will translate to pool, i'm not sure. It would be sad to see a heap of taught clones but if a certain technique has proven more effective than others, whose going to choose anything different ?

silverbullet
12-18-2002, 06:55 PM
Watch 'a river runs through it' paying special attention to where the older brother is saying about the younger relating to his fly fishing that he had broken into a rhythm of his own and it was like art in motion.

havent had as much experience in pool as other sports but in the sports i have participate, if a person has a different style and does not win, people say their fundamentals are poor. if they win, people want to copy them.

i dont know very many pool instructors but the ones i have known, randy and scott have a leeway for personal style. randy goes so far as to teach a person find a person style in certain areas of pool school. scott also talks about doing what works and is natural. seems they have certain fundamentals they are adament on but their is room for style. i imagine many good instructors help a person find their style.

blu

landshark1002000
12-18-2002, 11:44 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif YES! "A river runs thru it", is a great analogy. The STYLE of B and R is the thing. Their personality has merged with their fundamentals. You can teach their fundamentals, I believe, (break it down from photos). But to reproduce their style would impose a strange pressure on your personality to try and fit their mold.
Re: The Science of Sports... This has been going on since the invention of photography, 150 years ago, when the camera first captured the motions of people and animals. It was discovered that horses at a gallop always had one hoof on the ground at all times. And the first time that pole vaulting and running were examined.
This "science" has also explored pool's mental game. With the resulting addition of the "checklist" prior to release of the shot. This is a very rational, "Western" approach. Alternatives that come out of a non-scientific approach are seldom discussed in recent pool literature. For many players, this vacuum has lead to the assumption that alternatives are inferior. But, as I said earlier, Bustamante and Reyes both enjoy very profitable careers using a different method. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif