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View Full Version : one of my hardest shots



silverbullet
12-19-2002, 01:35 PM
I think shooting long is pretty okay for me as long as the cb and ob are at different ends. Can pretty often make a medium difficulty long cut. My problem is if I have to go long and both ob and cb are at the same end of the table.

I do not have the wei so bare with me. The ob is at the spot at opposite end from the kitchen. the cb is about a foot to 18 inches behind at about a 45-60% angle. I have great difficulty making this shot even though if they are at opposite ends, have made the 60% cut fairly okay, more than 50% of the time by looking at throw.

I have a feeling that throw must be a bigger problem or there is something else going on. like I said before, I do not use english but use centerball because I am not skilled enough to know how to predict how much oe to use.

i also tend to hit the ball hard enoough to pocket and get shape. I think that if i hit it harder, like fred said, the throw would be reduced. If that is part of your recommendation, how then do I keep the cb from zinging all over the place so that it ends up where I want it to not be.

I know it is no good to miss the shot and get good shape, but I also know it is no good to make the ball, leave myself bad, end up in a difficult safety position and ultimately leave my opponent good. When I am playing really good people, I have to think ahead about these things. If I cant figure out how to play the shot, I usually play safe or try to tie up a pocket or something , or I can cheat and hit the opponent's ball and tie up another one of them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Please suggestions. This type of shot seems to come up more than one would think and I would like to learn how to make it.

Thanks in advance. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

blu

Fred Agnir
12-19-2002, 03:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr> I think that if i hit it harder, like fred said, the throw would be reduced. If that is part of your recommendation, how then do I keep the cb from zinging all over the place so that it ends up where I want it to not be.<hr /></blockquote>
Aaack! If I misled you to think I'm encouraging you to hit the ball harder, I apologize and retract any such folly (until you get more advanced).

Fred

smfsrca
12-19-2002, 03:22 PM
From your description this sounds like a back cut spot shot.
Regardless of the distance from the object ball, 18" or from the kitchen, try center ball with a small amount of follow, say half a tip. Aim using the edge of the cue ball to the edge or a small portion at the edge of the object ball. Shoot it this way until you can shoot consistenly without hitting it thick (overcut or make). Don't be afraid of the scratch. When your stroke is smooth and the ball goes into the heart the cue ball will just miss the scratch and rebound off the foot rail. If you can't see natural shape by shooting it this way then consider looking for the safety play either now or on the next shot. If you miss by hitting to thin it frequently comes up relatively safe.

Steve in CA
Steve

heater451
12-19-2002, 03:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr> . . .I do not have the wei so bare with me. The ob is at the spot at opposite end from the kitchen. the cb is about a foot to 18 inches behind at about a 45-60% angle. I have great difficulty making this shot even though if they are at opposite ends, have made the 60% cut fairly okay, more than 50% of the time by looking at throw.

I have a feeling that throw must be a bigger problem or there is something else going on. like I said before, I do not use english but use centerball because I am not skilled enough to know how to predict how much oe to use.

i also tend to hit the ball hard enoough to pocket and get shape. I think that if i hit it harder, like fred said, the throw would be reduced. If that is part of your recommendation, how then do I keep the cb from zinging all over the place so that it ends up where I want it to not be.

I know it is no good to miss the shot and get good shape, but I also know it is no good to make the ball, leave myself bad, end up in a difficult safety position and ultimately leave my opponent good. When I am playing really good people, I have to think ahead about these things. If I cant figure out how to play the shot, I usually play safe or try to tie up a pocket or something , or I can cheat and hit the opponent's ball and tie up another one of them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Please suggestions. This type of shot seems to come up more than one would think and I would like to learn how to make it.

Thanks in advance. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

blu <hr /></blockquote>You don't "need" the Wei table--it's posted here:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

Instructions and such here:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2_help.html

(Basically, just click/drag the balls and arrows as you want them, and click over the "copy" button. This will copy the variables to your Windows 'clipboard', so that you can paste them as a text string into your post. To view, you copy the code from a post, go to the table, and click the "paste" button. note: Drag balls off the table, to remove them completely.)

As for the shot, and "going long", are you referring to the object ball going to the far corner, say, opposite the corner you are shooting from? That is, are you saying that you are more likely to make the 8 ball at 'A', but not the 9 ball at 'B'? Or, are you trying to back-cut the 9 to pocket 'C'?

START(%HL7G2%Ig7O4%Pn5T3%QM1D8%Rg7L4%SD5Y4%UE5E0%V g5O3%Wi5P6%Xm8S9%YN5G9%Zm6S8)END


If you have to use the english to compensate for throw, in order to also achieve prime position, well, that's what english is there for!

Since the shot(s) can be made in different ways, I don't think anyone can tell you how to shoot it "right". But, for what it's worth, whatever you decide you need to use for a shot, you will either have to practice that type of shot ahead of time, or "practice" when it comes up--which takes longer, but then you get to call it "experience"! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BTW, when using outside english, you are actually kind of 'throwing' the ball back, against the "Contact-Induced Throw (CIT)". Be aware, however, that some of us believe in "Spin-Induced Throw (SIT)", and some of us do not. . . .

Also, assuming that you are missing the 9 ball shot, coded above, then also remember that any deviation from the pocket will increase with distance (from the start point). Therefore, if you hit an object ball at a foot from the pocket, it will have less time/distance to miss, as opposed to a ball from 3/4 down-table. And, yes, speed will affect the deviation as well, due to imparted spin, and the table condition is also a factor.

. . .um, and, uh "lastly", If you can miss the same shot consistently, then you should be able to compensate consistently, and bring your shot percentages up. (Don't let 'throw' confuse you, if you figure out the correction to your aiming, the balls should go. Again, don't worry about using throw, until you are ready to practice positioning.)



====================

tateuts
12-19-2002, 04:44 PM
Being able to shoot down-table shots confidently is critical. I practice these shots all the time. If you can sink them, you can take some pressure off your shape play in 9 ball. In straight pool, you often get stuck with them after a break shot. I also practice thin cutting the object ball along the rail same way, which is more difficult. Don't underestimate what it does to your opponents head when you can these cut these in consistently!

I agree that "throw" is the reason why they are difficult. The slightest error using english is magnified by the distance the OB has to travel. The way I play these shots is to go against the natural instinct to fire the shot in the hole and instead hit them gently. Try it. Just enough speed to smoothly roll the ob down the table and into the hole. The gentle shot allows more room for error and a lot more english control. Even more importantly, it allows you to "feel" the shot. I don't think you can learn it until you can feel it. I hope that helps.

Wally_in_Cincy
12-20-2002, 07:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr>

...........The way I play these shots is to go against the natural instinct to fire the shot in the hole and instead hit them gently. Try it. Just enough speed to smoothly roll the ob down the table and into the hole. The gentle shot allows more room for error............ <hr /></blockquote>

Hi tateuts,

I agree if the table is level. But sometimes shooting pocket speed long shots on a barbox is a recipe for disaster.

Hey Bluewolf are you playing league on barbox or big table?

Fred Agnir
12-20-2002, 07:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> BTW, when using outside english, you are actually kind of 'throwing' the ball back, against the "Contact-Induced Throw (CIT)". Be aware, however, that some of us believe in "Spin-Induced Throw (SIT)", and some of us do not. . . .<hr /></blockquote>
My feeling is that by using spin, you simply reduce the throw. Inside english has the same effect. But, because of swerve and a resultant thicker hit, people tend to think the the spin-throw from inside-english is *added* to the collision throw. This really doesn't make sense (to me) as throw is simply friction. And friction goes down as the relative suface speeds go up.

The details don't matter, however. For the vast majority of players, hitting slow with inside results in a missed shot "short."

Fred

silverbullet
12-20-2002, 08:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>

Hi tateuts,

I agree if the table is level. But sometimes shooting pocket speed long shots on a barbox is a recipe for disaster.

Hey Bluewolf are you playing league on barbox or big table? <hr /></blockquote>

My table is an 8 foot. We play in league on brunswick crown 9 footers.

blu

silverbullet
12-20-2002, 08:35 AM
Thanks for every one's ideas. With the suggestions, a 45% cut? problem solved. A 60% cut? still working on that one. Might have been hitting a little fat. Thanks again.

blu