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View Full Version : tough ending (and a rules question)



sack316
12-20-2002, 11:35 PM
just letting y'all know my Tuesday night team made an awesome comeback the second half and snuck in the playoffs, but alas we lost toe the #1 team by the closest of margins (51-49... APA team score). On a positive note I won 16-4, which is the closest anyone has come to me since I joined this board (ah the magic of this board). This did bring up a question from one match though. In the final match my teammate needed I think 3 points to give us enough to win the team match, his opponent needed 4 to close out the game. My teammate gave ball in hand to the opponent with the 7, 8, and 9 remaining (9-ball). As he was doing his practice strokes I swear I saw him tap the cue ball and it appeared to move. He instantly cocked and shot the 7 and made it. I called him on this, but nobody else was watching close enough to see it. Their coach called a timeout and went to talk to his guy.Now another guy from another team had told us calls like that belong to the shooter, and of course he said he didn't tap it. I'm guessing his coach went and told him the same thing about it being his call. He proceeded to run the rest of the balls. Is it true that the call goes to the shooter, or does it vary from league to league? This really has got to me obviously because ball in hand would have almost surely meant we would have won. Any insight on this from you guys?

Scott Lee
12-21-2002, 03:49 AM
It is true that the call goes to the shooter, in the event of a disagreement. What you observed was definitely a foul (and btw, it doesn't have to move, just touching it is a foul), but couldn't be proved unless more people saw it! It's just like the rule that APA doesn't play push shots as a foul, because it causes too many arguments. APA is a beginner's league by-in-large, and they're lax about rules like this.

Scott Lee

CarolNYC
12-21-2002, 05:31 AM
Im sorry to say this but your opponent was a "dawg"-it does go to the shooter, but he should have stepped back and said he fouled-I would have jumped all over that one!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
12-21-2002, 11:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>
........It's just like the rule that APA doesn't play push shots as a foul, because it causes too many arguments....
<hr /></blockquote>

So that's why. LOL

Yeah one of my teammates committed a push shot foul at the city tourney one time with a ref watching. Despite the other team's objection, the ref refused to call a foul. He said "If I call that foul it will be the first time it's ever been called in this league". /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Back to sack316's original question. The shooter displayed a galling unsportsmanlike act. I've seen this foul many times in our league and I have never seen anyone with the cojones to try and deny it.

I believe in APA an unresolvable disagreement results in starting the game over but I don't have a rule book handy.

Sid_Vicious
12-21-2002, 11:18 AM
I learned a good lesson once in this subject. I was asked to join a top team here for a state tournament(they were short and I qualified but was a raw beginner) and during the events I double hit a CB and played through. The opponent asked if it double hit and I was so intense on carrying my weight for these champion players, that I stubbornly said NO it did not. Well the look I got from my own team mates was enough to make me shrink a couple of feet, and I NEVER again bullied the truth on a foul I made on the CB. You suffered someone like me, back when winning was the only thing in my mind...sid

Alfie
12-21-2002, 03:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> I believe in APA an unresolvable disagreement results in starting the game over but I don't have a rule book handy. <hr /></blockquote> rule book
http://www.poolplayers.com/materials.html

12-24-2002, 11:31 AM
I was involved in a similar dispute earlier in the year when my opponent, while using a bridge, nudged the CB. One of my teamates saw it and so did I. We called it immediately and he denied it. Since this was an 8-ball shot in the playoffs, I wouldn't give in. I know what I saw. The dispute resulted in a re-rack and you know what? That SOB made the 8 on that break. Arbitrarily, I won the match. But as for your question, it is the shooters call. However, since I wouldn't let it go, we reached a comprimise of a re-rack.

John G
12-24-2002, 03:51 PM
It's a funny thing about winning, for me it's only satisfying if I get your best game and I beat you fairly.
People that I'm around now probably don't know know how strongly I feel about winning because I keep that animal in a cage but who wins is always important. But not at any cost. It's sad that people who cheat don't realize that the've won nothing. The've stolen something. They make take it home but it will never be thiers, it belongs to someone else. When I win, I want it to belong to me, become a part of me, feed upon it and grow. What a sad commentary for cheaters to be so needful that they will sell themselves so short.

sack316
12-24-2002, 09:39 PM
I appreciate the responses and you guys being and disgusted about it as I was. One thing I forgot to mention was after the match he felt the need to come up to me at my table and explain himself and "what might have happened or might not have happened". Anyway, my feeling was if he was so sure he didn't then why would he need to come explain himself to me who otherwise is a complete stranger? Guess maybe he was still trying to convince himself too. Oh well, it was a team that we had been warned about taking any shortcuts they can, so I guess we bare some of the blame too for not paying close enough attention. I'll be at their finals match watching closely from the side of their oppenent (who is a team that is good friends with ours, and they share the same hatred for their ways that we do). So here's hoping they get squashed!
Hope all of you have a merry Christmas and that Santa brings you many break and runs.