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landshark1002000
12-27-2002, 01:49 AM
Has anybody seen a book that was just about 8 ball? There are books about lots of other pool games, but I've never found one on 8 ball.
Yes, I've seen chapters by Byrne, Capelle and others. 9 ball, 14.1, snooker, and billiards all have their own titles. What's up with 8 ball? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

The Rhino Chaser
12-27-2002, 03:21 AM
Larry Schwartz has written a book called the 8 Ball Players Handbook. You can get the book through Accu-Stats. Haven't read the book, so I can't tell you anything about the book.

Wally_in_Cincy
12-27-2002, 01:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark1002000:</font><hr> Has anybody seen a book that was just about 8 ball? There are books about lots of other pool games, but I've never found one on 8 ball.
Yes, I've seen chapters by Byrne, Capelle and others. 9 ball, 14.1, snooker, and billiards all have their own titles. What's up with 8 ball? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I think 8-ball is looked down on by the pool cognescenti as an amateur banger game. Maybe that's why no major book has been written solely about it. Personally I believe it's a quite challenging and enjoyable game. Strategically IMO it is harder than 9-ball.

As The Rhino Chaser stated, Larry Schwartz wrote a book called "The 8-ball Handbook". It's short but it's a worthwhile read and inexpensive.

George Fels' book "How Would You Play This?" contains many 8-ball scenarios and suggested strategies for playing them.

Maybe Phil Cappelle's next book will be "Play Your Best Eight Ball"

9 Ball Girl
12-27-2002, 01:34 PM
You mentioned Capelle. Did you mean his Play Your Best Pool book? That one covers 8 and 9 ball strategies.

http://billiardspress.com/playyourbestpool.jpg

PQQLK9
12-28-2002, 09:48 AM
"The Eight Ball Book" by the Monk

landshark1002000
12-28-2002, 07:15 PM
Thanks. Capelle's 56 pages IMO are the best written about the TACTICS of eight ball. For STRATEGY, Robert Byrne has a great chapter that concludes with a checklist. These are both excellent books. Both handle eight ball with a chapter.The question was, why whole books are so rare.
Phil Capelle is planning an eight ball book. It's been a year and a half since he mentioned it, but I'm sure he'll publish it eventually.
Personally, I think Capelle and Byrne are the best writers in pool today. They have their interests. They write about the things that are important to them.
My interest is eight ball. I'd like to see it receive the kind of promotion, prize money and pro tour as there is in other english speaking countries like the UK or Australia.
The lack of books says something about how we regard the game here. Byrne says, in a battle between equals, the eight ball player with the better strategy will win. I'd like to read more about this strategy. But there's no book out there.
He also writes that eight ball is the most popular game played on home tables or on bar tables. If its that popular then there's a need and a market right here in the States.

landshark1002000
12-28-2002, 07:18 PM
Thanks. I'll contact Accu-stats.

12-28-2002, 08:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark1002000:</font><hr> Thanks. Capelle's 56 pages IMO are the best written about the TACTICS of eight ball. For STRATEGY, Robert Byrne has a great chapter that concludes with a checklist. These are both excellent books. Both handle eight ball with a chapter.The question was, why whole books are so rare.
Phil Capelle is planning an eight ball book. It's been a year and a half since he mentioned it, but I'm sure he'll publish it eventually.
Personally, I think Capelle and Byrne are the best writers in pool today. They have their interests. They write about the things that are important to them.
My interest is eight ball. I'd like to see it receive the kind of promotion, prize money and pro tour as there is in other english speaking countries like the UK or Australia.
The lack of books says something about how we regard the game here. Byrne says, in a battle between equals, the eight ball player with the better strategy will win. I'd like to read more about this strategy. But there's no book out there.
He also writes that eight ball is the most popular game played on home tables or on bar tables. If its that popular then there's a need and a market right here in the States.

<hr /></blockquote>

A primary reason may be that proper 8 ball strategy varies so greatly dependent on which set of rules you happen to be playing. The differences change how tp best play the game so much that it would be a major project. IMO 8 ball requires as much knowlwdge (though different knowledge) to play expertly as one pocket.

I have considered publishing an 8 ball book myself but in order to complete the project I will probably simply choose one set of rules on which to concentrate my strategy and casually refer to some needed adjustments based on typical variations. Guess it is time to access my wordprocessor and contact Conjelco Publishing! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Jimbo

landshark1002000
12-28-2002, 10:16 PM
That's a good point, Jimbo. The rules vary. Standardization would help.
Re: your 8 ball book. Do you have a chapter outline yet?
I' d like to hear more about Conjelco, too.

landshark1002000
12-28-2002, 11:01 PM
You've read this handbook. Does Schwartz distinguish between tactics and strategy (or grand strategy)?
Phil Capelle said his 8 ball chapter (Play Your Best Pool)wasn't trying to develop or explain an overall grand strategy of the game. His focus was more on the tactical situations that are typical in regular play. IMO he accomplished this goal.
Robert Byrne (New Standard Book of Pool and Billiards pg.165) has an exceptionally good list of tactical do's and don'ts. But again, there isn't an attempt to develop an overall strategic theory.
Does Schwartz discuss the goal of the break shot, ball group development, how the opponent ball group's eclipse zones play defense against the mobile cue ball,the two primary pockets, how blockades control the pace of the game, the significance of trouble balls, key ball theory, ball distribution after the break, tablezones, the blockade zone at the pocket, or other general principals that apply to grand strategy?
Does he discuss any of the general mental game issues?
I guess, if his book doesn't introduce new ideas not already found in the other two books (mentioned above), it's unlikely he's gone beyond a description of tactics.
So, I'm wondering, is this slim volume a primer on grand strategy or another discussion of the tactics of eight ball?

silverbullet
12-29-2002, 10:18 AM
Jimbo,

Are you serious about writing/publiishing an 8 ball book? Have you written other pool books. Or were you being funny? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

ps ccbers tend, well at least some of us do, to buy books written by other ccbers

bw

12-29-2002, 11:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr> Jimbo,

Are you serious about writing/publiishing an 8 ball book? Have you written other pool books. Or were you being funny? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

ps ccbers tend, well at least some of us do, to buy books written by other ccbers

bw <hr /></blockquote>

Yes I was quite serious. I have written quite a few general articles about pool that have been published both regionally and nationally. Since 8 ball was one of my better road games it still holds a fondness in my heart. The last article I had published was in November in The Intelligent Gambler, published by Conjelco, which I mentioned earlier. Their URL is www.conjelco.com (http://www.conjelco.com), and they sell/publish many different books and newsletters but focus primarily on poker and BJ books. I believe if I had a solid foundation for an 8 ball book they would promote and publish it for me. Then again I may be mistaken but I do not believe that is the case.

Jimbo

ps: To answer an earlier question I have many notebooks full of strategy on 8 ball but no formal outline for a book.

Wally_in_Cincy
12-30-2002, 07:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark1002000:</font><hr> You've read this handbook. Does Schwartz distinguish between tactics and strategy (or grand strategy)?
Phil Capelle said his 8 ball chapter (Play Your Best Pool)wasn't trying to develop or explain an overall grand strategy of the game. His focus was more on the tactical situations that are typical in regular play. IMO he accomplished this goal.
Robert Byrne (New Standard Book of Pool and Billiards pg.165) has an exceptionally good list of tactical do's and don'ts. But again, there isn't an attempt to develop an overall strategic theory.
Does Schwartz discuss the goal of the break shot, ball group development, how the opponent ball group's eclipse zones play defense against the mobile cue ball,the two primary pockets, how blockades control the pace of the game, the significance of trouble balls, key ball theory, ball distribution after the break, tablezones, the blockade zone at the pocket, or other general principals that apply to grand strategy?
Does he discuss any of the general mental game issues?
I guess, if his book doesn't introduce new ideas not already found in the other two books (mentioned above), it's unlikely he's gone beyond a description of tactics.
So, I'm wondering, is this slim volume a primer on grand strategy or another discussion of the tactics of eight ball?
<hr /></blockquote>

Geez dude, just buy the freakin' book /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. It's only like $7.95.

It's only about as voluminous as a thin magazine, but you can probably find something worthwhile in it.

BTW I think strategy and tactics are extremely close to being synonyms, unless you're referring to strategy as an overall plan, and a tactic as a small part in the execution of the plan. I prefer <font color="red">"strategery" </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

landshark1002000
12-30-2002, 01:29 PM
You know the difference between grand strategy and tactics.
Does Schwartz discuss grand strategy?

Fred Agnir
12-30-2002, 01:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark1002000:</font><hr> You know the difference between grand strategy and tactics.<hr /></blockquote>

No.

Fred &lt;~~~ wonders what the punch line is

landshark1002000
12-30-2002, 01:53 PM
Thanks for the conjelco address. Is there a contact there, someone who covers pool books?
My book outline is complete. The BCA says they'll help with marketing. And I'm writing the final draft.
The Arizona Republic has published several of my (non-pool) articles recently. Billiards Tabletalk, an Arizona regional pool newspaper, has published a series of my eight ball articles.
I'm looking for a book publisher.
P.S. I'd enjoy discussing 8 ball with you.

landshark1002000
12-30-2002, 02:34 PM
Grand strategy is how the general sees the OVER ALL battle.
Strategy is how middle management(a colonel perhaps?) sees his SEGMENT of the over all battle.
Tactics is how the footsoldier sees his very local, hand to hand portion of the battle.
The battle is the same but the viewpoints are different because of their location and job description.
They each describe very different notions of what's important.They each have different immediate goals and objectives.
Phil Capelle and others have covered the footsoldier and hinted at the colonel's role.
Robert Byrne has done the same but has included an excellent checklist for colonels.
My own book is an attempt to describe the role of the general.

Fred Agnir
12-30-2002, 02:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark1002000:</font><hr> general ...colonel ...footsoldier <hr /></blockquote>
You mean when I play pool, I gotta have partners?

Fred &lt;~~~ thinks pool is much more complex than war.

Fred Agnir
12-30-2002, 02:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr>
ps ccbers tend, well at least some of us do, to buy books written by other ccbers<hr /></blockquote>

Like who?

Fred

Alfie
12-30-2002, 03:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark1002000:</font><hr> Phil Capelle and others have covered the footsoldier and hinted at the colonel's role.
Robert Byrne has done the same but has included an excellent checklist for colonels.
My own book is an attempt to describe the role of the general. <hr /></blockquote> Are you going to talk about the captain and the colonel too?

I can afford only one eight ball book.

12-30-2002, 03:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark1002000:</font><hr> Thanks for the conjelco address. Is there a contact there, someone who covers pool books?
My book outline is complete. The BCA says they'll help with marketing. And I'm writing the final draft.
The Arizona Republic has published several of my (non-pool) articles recently. Billiards Tabletalk, an Arizona regional pool newspaper, has published a series of my eight ball articles.
I'm looking for a book publisher.
P.S. I'd enjoy discussing 8 ball with you. <hr /></blockquote>

Landshark,

The e-mail address on the Conjelco site goes directly to Check Weinstock. He can answer any of your questions and give you an address to send in your proposal. I believe they will want a nearly finished draft rather than an outline before they seriously consider publishing your book. Also be prepared to go through several months of editing, their standards are very high and they turn down most of what is offered to them. Should you be successful the outlets available for retail sales are incredible, plus they are quite generous with the royalties compared to other publishers due to their careful screening of potential publications. Just tell Chuck I referred you to him, he knows me both as Jimbo and Jim Turner. I believe your book would be the first pool book they might publish but do not let that discourage you. Chuck is an avid pool fan and I am sure he will be very interested in your submission.


Best of Luck,


Jimbo

ps: I would enjoy speaking to you about 8 ball as well. If they publish your book do I get an honorable mention? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

landshark1002000
12-31-2002, 03:48 AM
Why buy the milk when the cow is free?
Use the library. Explore pool/billiard books for free.
When the local library no longer has anything new, then ask the librarian how to do interlibrary loan (borrow books from other places).
You’ll decide AFTER….what to buy and what to keep.

Alfie
12-31-2002, 07:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark1002000:</font><hr> Why buy the milk when the cow is free?
Use the library. Explore pool/billiard books for free.
When the local library no longer has anything new, then ask the librarian how to do interlibrary loan (borrow books from other places).
You’ll decide AFTER….what to buy and what to keep. <hr /></blockquote> So the answer is "No"?

landshark1002000
01-01-2003, 03:13 PM
Yes. My book will describe the three roles.
My comment about using the library was intended to let you make your own choice for the ONE pool book to buy. That's a very hard question for any pool player to make. My suggestion is that you try the library first, and then make your own decision.
If money is short then this TIME will be well spent.