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rrmgin
12-28-2002, 03:43 PM
From today's N.Y. Times

December 28, 2002
Two Killed in Fight Over Pool Game
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


Filed at 4:03 p.m. ET

GIBRALTAR, Mich. (AP) -- A bar fight over a pool game erupted into shooting that left two men dead and three wounded in this small town south of Detroit, police said Saturday.

A man who was roughed up in a fist fight after ``somebody accused somebody of cheating'' allegedly returned to Drinks Saloon late Friday with a gun and opened fire, Gibraltar Police Chief Paul Lehr said. A 26-year-old man was in police custody Saturday.

Investigators recovered a 9 mm semiautomatic handgun, Lehr said.

Killed in the shooting were Charles Stull, 35, of Carleton and Douglas Kruszewski, 33, of Rockwood, Lehr said.

Curtis Marcinkowski, 32, was in critical condition Saturday; Steven Purdy, 24, was in serious condition; and Kristian Peters, 33, who was shot in the arm, was undergoing surgery Saturday.

The shootings were the first homicides in Gibraltar, a town of 4,300 about 25 miles south of Detroit, since Lehr became police chief eight years ago and the only multiple homicides there that he knew of.

The deaths followed another multiple homicide in the Detroit area last weekend in which a jeweler from Livonia, his three children and his mother were fatally shot in an apparent robbery.

9 Ball Girl
12-28-2002, 04:00 PM
Great. Just what we need in the world of pool. Sigh. http://64.207.13.28/mysmilies/otn/sad/loki1.gif

Why is it that that would make the paper? I've never seen anything that boosts the reputation of pool in any major paper. Except for when Jeanette Lee was in town for something and it was in the New York Newsday in the Entertainment Section.

snipershot
12-29-2002, 02:07 AM
wow, I've never heard of anything like that before, I've heard of and seen many fistfights before, but nothing like that.

I wonder if it was just over pool or if there was something else that might have factored in this occurring. It's things like this that give pool a black eye.

PQQLK9
12-29-2002, 11:38 AM
Here's a link to a pool room fatality in 1920...(I have the same surname as the victim)
http://dbs.ohiohistory.org/africanam/page.cfm?ID=9147

12-29-2002, 11:49 AM
Although fatalaties were rare while on the road in the 70's fighting your way out of town was not. I have had a pistol pulled on me over a $5 game of 8 ball in a bar, been threatened with many knives and just generally physically intimidated. These days there is much more control in pool rooms and in most bars due to the increased popularity as well as the fact that it is none too good for business when your patrons feel threatened! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif However anywhere that drugs and alcohol are commonplace trouble is bound to follow.

Jimbo

Popcorn
12-29-2002, 01:25 PM
Those same people would react like that if one cut the other off in traffic. It has nothing to do at all with pool. That is the world we live in today. Unlike Jimbo, I played on the road in the late 60s and 70s and almost never had a problem, much less fighting my way out of town. I don't know what he was doing, but I was playing pool. Most often played the better players in town and may have disguised my speed a little, but people don't usueally want to kill you over money, it is usually something else you did. I traveled a few times with guys that seemed to make enemies everywhere, but I think it was because they had no idea what they were doing. They were always trying to victimize weak players as if they were fools and were often afraid to play anybody that could play. I never worked like that. You could almost always beat the best players in most towns and people would bet on them. You may bust the whole place if you could win and that is a lot better then hustling a drunk in a bar who can't even play and has no money anyway. Most towns had bars where the action was and a challenge game going on. That was the place to be. I also would often drive well out of my way to play a guy I had heard about. This was gun fighting though and had nothing to do with winning money. Gas was $.35 to $.50 a gallon a motel $12 bucks, it was fun and you could actually make a pretty good living. I never thought of it as dangerous. I met lots of girls, played lots of pool and had a lots of fun. Looking back, I was shortly back from Viet Nam and can not think of a better thing for me to have been doing at the time. Playing pool again may have brought me back to sanity. This may be a thing of the past though, I can't honestly say what it would be like doing it today. I suspect there are more good players now and going into a place asking if they have anybody around who plays, might not be so easy, even for a very good player. I don't think players today are so prone to playing when someone comes around either. Back then, if you were a pool player, you were expected to play, that's is what pool players do. Today they play on leagues and local tournaments. They get off on that without much risk, times are different.

wolfsburg2
12-29-2002, 01:39 PM
i like hearing positive pool stories like yours. it makes me fell good about pool. i hope to one day be good enought o play the best players in a given town.

12-29-2002, 02:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Those same people would react like that if one cut the other off in traffic. It has nothing to do at all with pool. That is the world we live in today. Unlike Jimbo, I played on the road in the late 60s and 70s and almost never had a problem, much less fighting my way out of town. I don't know what he was doing, but I was playing pool. Most often played the better players in town and may have disguised my speed a little, but people don't usueally want to kill you over money, it is usually something else you did. I traveled a few times with guys that seemed to make enemies everywhere, but I think it was because they had no idea what they were doing. They were always trying to victimize weak players as if they were fools and were often afraid to play anybody that could play. I never worked like that. You could almost always beat the best players in most towns and people would bet on them. You may bust the whole place if you could win and that is a lot better then hustling a drunk in a bar who can't even play and has no money anyway. Most towns had bars where the action was and a challenge game going on. That was the place to be. I also would often drive well out of my way to play a guy I had heard about. This was gun fighting though and had nothing to do with winning money. Gas was $.35 to $.50 a gallon a motel $12 bucks, it was fun and you could actually make a pretty good living. I never thought of it as dangerous. I met lots of girls, played lots of pool and had a lots of fun. Looking back, I was shortly back from Viet Nam and can not think of a better thing for me to have been doing at the time. Playing pool again may have brought me back to sanity. This may be a thing of the past, I can't honestly say what it would be like doing it today. I suspect there are more good players now and going into a place asking if they have anybody around who plays, might not be so easy, even for a very good player. <hr /></blockquote>

Those are some interesting observations Popcorn considering you have no clue as to my personality, demeanor or playing style. I always played full speed, never tried to unwittingly hustle another player in my life. I did however go anywhere and everywhere that pool was played from Georgia across the southwest to Central Texas. That includes bars, poolrooms and quaint places with names like Johnny Rebs. Most people were very friendly but some were not, I am surprised you never saw any trouble. Methinks your memory is clouded by rose colored glasses or else you were very fortunate. Personally I always gave walking money to my opponnents and generous jelly rolls to other players I won money on.

If I implied that trouble was a way of life or a daily occurance that was not my intention. But in a total of 23 years on the road I was bound to experience a few uncomfortable situations and witness many more. That aside I enyoyed my experiences very much as well as making an extremely good living and making friends throughout the southwest.

Jimbo

ps: I was playing pool too Popcorn. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Popcorn
12-29-2002, 02:49 PM
I did not mean to imply anything, but I am sure you knew the same kinds of guys. When you would leave everybody would hate you, they just have a way of rubbing people the wrong way. I never liked that, I often went back to the same places and was always welcome there. I thought nothing of turning down a game if I thought the guy was a problem. I think I was good at avoiding trouble. That does not mean it was not out there.