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View Full Version : When will they scrap it?



Mr Ingrate
12-29-2002, 01:47 PM
I watched a replay of this year's May BCA women's semi-final and final. A ball was made on the break (using the soft break) every time, without fail. The balls were racked with the Sardo rack and the 9-ball was on the spot. It occured to me that the reason for moving the rack up in the first place was because a ball was being made on the break every time when the 1-ball was on the spot. Guess what? No change. What's next? The last ball on the spot?

I also watched the World Pool Master reruns that are being shown on Sportsnet in my area. They were using regular racks and there were a number of times that a ball wasn't made on the break. Hard breaks, great to watch!

The Sardo's seem to be nice people, but isn't it time to scrap their device. I think this is one of those ideas which look great on paper, but fail upon implementation.

Creating divots in the rack area to make the device work smacks of modifying the playing surface to me. Let someone put a tip on a cue that isn't leather or synthetic leather and the BCA would be all over them.

I don't see anywhere in the BCA rule book that allows for the 9-ball to be racked on the spot. Yet, they rack that way for their pro tournament in Las Vegas. I guess advertising dollars trump the rule book.

I almost hate to bring the subject of the "Sardo Tight Rack" up again, but I can't believe it will ever gain any real acceptance.

silverbullet
12-29-2002, 02:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Mr Ingrate:</font><hr> I watched a replay of this year's May BCA women's semi-final and final. A ball was made on the break (using the soft break) every time, without fail. The balls were racked with the Sardo rack and the 9-ball was on the spot. It occured to me that the reason for moving the rack up in the first place was because a ball was being made on the break every time when the 1-ball was on the spot. Guess what? No change. What's next? The last ball on the spot?

I also watched the World Pool Master reruns that are being shown on Sportsnet in my area. They were using regular racks and there were a number of times that a ball wasn't made on the break. Hard breaks, great to watch!

The Sardo's seem to be nice people, but isn't it time to scrap their device. I think this is one of those ideas which look great on paper, but fail upon implementation.

Creating divots in the rack area to make the device work smacks of modifying the playing surface to me. Let someone put a tip on a cue that isn't leather or synthetic leather and the BCA would be all over them.

I don't see anywhere in the BCA rule book that allows for the 9-ball to be racked on the spot. Yet, they rack that way for their pro tournament in Las Vegas. I guess advertising dollars trump the rule book.

I almost hate to bring the subject of the "Sardo Tight Rack" up again, but I can't believe it will ever gain any real acceptance. <hr /></blockquote>

I was looking into a 9 ball rack and could not fine one that racked as tight as a good triangle rack. I asked about the sardo and was told by most ccbers to not use it. I would not to put those dents into my cloth that i have personally paid for.

Laura

jjinfla
12-29-2002, 02:25 PM
Hi Dave, Hope all is well with you and are enjoying yourself up in the cold, cold northland. I was thinking the same thing watching Alison soft break the Sardo. She was hardly using any force at all and two three balls were falling. And the 9 was on the spot. Of course the Sardo is being used and touted because of the money he brings to the game. I know of no one using it around here. One TD was sponsored by it and given one free and he couldn't get the players to use it. It would be a great idea if you could use it without programming the table. But having to actually pound the balls until there are dents on the table is just nuts. When someone buys one they should be given a card that proclaims: "You are an idiot!". Jake

Troy
12-29-2002, 02:33 PM
There's no question where I stand on the "SARDINE GIZMO". The contraption should have been discarded the day it was created. Were it not for advertising dollars, NONE would be in use except for maybe those bought as a novelty and soon left to collect dust.

Racking other than with the head ball on the spot is a travesty. Those organizations condoning this should be ashamed.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Mr Ingrate:</font><hr> I watched a replay of this year's May BCA women's semi-final and final. A ball was made on the break (using the soft break) every time, without fail. The balls were racked with the Sardo rack and the 9-ball was on the spot. It occured to me that the reason for moving the rack up in the first place was because a ball was being made on the break every time when the 1-ball was on the spot. Guess what? No change. What's next? The last ball on the spot?

I also watched the World Pool Master reruns that are being shown on Sportsnet in my area. They were using regular racks and there were a number of times that a ball wasn't made on the break. Hard breaks, great to watch!

The Sardo's seem to be nice people, but isn't it time to scrap their device. I think this is one of those ideas which look great on paper, but fail upon implementation.

Creating divots in the rack area to make the device work smacks of modifying the playing surface to me. Let someone put a tip on a cue that isn't leather or synthetic leather and the BCA would be all over them.

I don't see anywhere in the BCA rule book that allows for the 9-ball to be racked on the spot. Yet, they rack that way for their pro tournament in Las Vegas. I guess advertising dollars trump the rule book.

I almost hate to bring the subject of the "Sardo Tight Rack" up again, but I can't believe it will ever gain any real acceptance. <hr /></blockquote>

Fred Agnir
12-30-2002, 08:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Mr Ingrate:</font><hr> I watched a replay of this year's May BCA women's semi-final and final. A ball was made on the break (using the soft break) every time, without fail. The balls were racked with the Sardo rack and the 9-ball was on the spot. It occured to me that the reason for moving the rack up in the first place was because a ball was being made on the break every time when the 1-ball was on the spot. Guess what? No change. What's next? The last ball on the spot?<hr /></blockquote>
I'll say my two cents of peace.

The soft break was used before the Sardo ever came about. The way Corey Deuel has studied the break, I think he would have gone to the softer break regardless of the Sardo. He went to the hard break in one-pocket where there was no Sardo, if that's any indication. And I really think it was Corey Deuel that drove that idea home.

Most of the pro-tournaments televised before the Sardo, the wing ball or one ball was still the one to go the vast majority of time. It was always a matter of finding the spot. I have many old tapes where the corner ball only misses one time throughout the entire match. And, that's about the same as with the Sardo.

The idea of moving the entire rack with the 9-ball on the spot was used well before the Sardo was introduced, specifically because the 9-ball rack caused a great amount of "wing-ball in the corner" breaks.

The rest of us mere mortals wouldn't become world champions because of the Sardo.

Fred

Mr Ingrate
12-30-2002, 12:18 PM
Hi Jake,

Victoria (the land of the "Newly Wed and Nearly Dead") is the warmest spot in Canada. So far no snow and temperatures around 50 with quite a bit of sun. Cloudy today and about 45 today. Certainly not as warm as "God's Waiting Room".

Could the Sardo device have been invented so Earl couldn't complain about the rack?

Icon of Sin
12-30-2002, 01:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The idea of moving the entire rack with the 9-ball on the spot was used well before the Sardo was introduced, specifically because the 9-ball rack caused a great amount of "wing-ball in the corner" breaks.

The rest of us mere mortals wouldn't become world champions because of the Sardo.

<hr /></blockquote>

So its not a bad idea afterall, hmmm, i was looking into getting one of these until i saw this thread

Now with that post that I quoted Im thinking about it once again... found a place online that has them for 127.XX thats the cheapest I saw it, but I forgot the website /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I saw that someone was complaining about the dimples it can put in the cloth, this same thing happens when you use another ball to smack down on one so it doesnt roll off the spot, you have to do this when racking occasionally. I dont think the dimples the sardo makes (if any) would be as bad as smacking one ball into another to make it hold still... but im still a newbie too and never experienced a sardo first hand

Fred Agnir
12-30-2002, 01:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Icon of Sin:</font><hr>So its not a bad idea afterall, hmmm, i was looking into getting one of these until i saw this thread

Now with that post that I quoted Im thinking about it once again... found a place online that has them for 127.XX thats the cheapest I saw it, but I forgot the website /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif
<hr /></blockquote>

http://www.billiardsexpress.com

Fred

Icon of Sin
12-30-2002, 01:33 PM
Damn, that was quick, and thats it /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

12-30-2002, 02:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Icon of Sin:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
I saw that someone was complaining about the dimples it can put in the cloth, this same thing happens when you use another ball to smack down on one so it doesnt roll off the spot, you have to do this when racking occasionally. I dont think the dimples the sardo makes (if any) would be as bad as smacking one ball into another to make it hold still... but im still a newbie too and never experienced a sardo first hand

<hr /></blockquote>

just so you know, here's the deal on the dimples. when you buy the rack, it comes with instructions, a template and an eyedropper. it directs you to "train" the cloth by putting a drop of water at each ball location then use 2 balls to pound in the dimple. 9 or 15 very deep holes. after that you can just throw the rack away and the balls will rack fine by just sliding them into the holes. you will, however, get some very funny slow rolls thru the mine-field.

all based on personal experience and training by one of the sardo bros. the little one. nice guy. bad gadget.

dan

Icon of Sin
12-30-2002, 03:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
it directs you to "train" the cloth by putting a drop of water at each ball location then use 2 balls to pound in the dimple. 9 or 15 very deep holes. after that you can just throw the rack away and the balls will rack fine by just sliding them into the holes. you will, however, get some very funny slow rolls thru the mine-field.

<hr /></blockquote>

I seriously doubt that they do this in tournaments otherwise the pros would be complaining left and right about the rolls they are getting when going through the rack area, just last week I saw Helena Thornsfeld (sp?) complain cause the was a tiny spec of dirt near her objest ball and made a ref clear it.

i think if it were to alter the table this bad, it would not be used in tournaments at all.

i understand you had training with it, but did the sardo rep really show you all this and say that you could even not use the rack to rack the balls and instead just slide them onto the newly created dimples?

I doubt anything that would modify the table to that level would be used in a pro calibur tourney such as the mosconi cup.

cheesemouse
12-30-2002, 03:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Icon of Sin:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
it directs you to "train" the cloth by putting a drop of water at each ball location then use 2 balls to pound in the dimple. 9 or 15 very deep holes. after that you can just throw the rack away and the balls will rack fine by just sliding them into the holes. you will, however, get some very funny slow rolls thru the mine-field.

<hr /></blockquote>

I seriously doubt that they do this in tournaments otherwise the pros would be complaining left and right about the rolls they are getting when going through the rack area, just last week I saw Helena Thornsfeld (sp?) complain cause the was a tiny spec of dirt near her objest ball and made a ref clear it.

i think if it were to alter the table this bad, it would not be used in tournaments at all.

i understand you had training with it, but did the sardo rep really show you all this and say that you could even not use the rack to rack the balls and instead just slide them onto the newly created dimples?

I doubt anything that would modify the table to that level would be used in a pro calibur tourney such as the mosconi cup. <hr /></blockquote>

Aghhhhhhhh the innocents of youth...ain't it cute... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

12-30-2002, 03:50 PM
Aghhhhhhhh the innocents of youth...ain't it cute... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

he seriously doubts?????????? i'm getting this kind of crap from some effete twit???

ok, kid, i made it all up. go buy one and god bless you.


dan

Drake
12-30-2002, 04:22 PM
I just got 5 new Open Accustat tapes for Christmas. They interview Dalton after he beats Nevel...and Shannon really lets everyone know that he hates soft breaking and feels that 10 ball would be the best game using the Sardo. Call me silly....but I've always felt that ALTERNATE BREAKS is the way to go.

Ken
12-30-2002, 04:35 PM
I watched Carmine (the little one?) train two tables. He pounded on only the one ball.

I asked Tipton about that and he said he only trains the one ball lightly before a tournament and he claims that is all you have to do on new cloth. He said the more vigorous training is necessary only on badly worn cloth.
KenCT

Icon of Sin
12-30-2002, 04:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
he seriously doubts?????????? i'm getting this kind of crap from some effete twit???

ok, kid, i made it all up. go buy one and god bless you.


<hr /></blockquote>

what the hell is your problem man, im just trying to stree my opinion about somthing, which is what posting message boards or a message board is all about... but instead you have to revert to name calling when I dont take you 603 post seniority to heart.

maybe im not really the youth in this topic...

sorry i offended anyone with my opinion about this product i have never seen before... but i doubt calling me an "effete twit" in a poor attitude justifies my critcism. You really know how to make a guy feel welcome

Icon of Sin
12-30-2002, 04:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I watched Carmine (the little one?) train two tables. He pounded on only the one ball.

I asked Tipton about that and he said he only trains the one ball lightly before a tournament and he claims that is all you have to do on new cloth. He said the more vigorous training is necessary only on badly worn cloth.
KenCT

<hr /></blockquote>

So the table isnt severly modified in a pro tourney by this device like i suggested.

cheesemouse
12-30-2002, 05:37 PM
Sin,
You've been around long enough so we can't buy the poor welcome stuff. This is a old retread subject. If you are seriously interested you can do an archive search and read the 100 thousand words written on the Sardo rack....It is a piece of crap but ,hey, don't take our word for buy one and report back... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

12-30-2002, 05:39 PM
<hr /></blockquote>

what the hell is your problem man, im just trying to stree my opinion about somthing, which is what posting message boards or a message board is all about... but instead you have to revert to name calling when I dont take you 603 post seniority to heart.

maybe im not really the youth in this topic...

sorry i offended anyone with my opinion about this product i have never seen before... but i doubt calling me an "effete twit" in a poor attitude justifies my critcism. You really know how to make a guy feel welcome <hr /></blockquote>

you come on here and call me a liar and i'm supposed to make you feel welcome? i watched him pound in all 9 divots and felt the cloth after. this was on a tourney table at a tourney. wpba. they made the divots deep because the balls would not hold position without that after a little play on the table.

i don't doubt that they have gotten so much flack about the holes that they have tried to make it work without them but all you have to do is get a copy of the booklet they include with the rack to see for yourself.

i was trying to be helpful by giving you a first hand report on exactly what goes on. there are plenty of others here who have seen the exact same thing.

anyway, like i said, buy one. be happy.

dan

Scott Lee
12-30-2002, 06:06 PM
Sin...dan is absolutely correct here! As far as it having any effect on the play...there was a tv match between Jeanette Lee and someone else (might have been Jennifer Chen) sometime in the past year, where Jeanette slow rolled the CB through the rack area. The CB actually rolled INTO one of the divots, and left her hooked on her next shot! This would NOT have happened if not for the dents in the cloth. She was visibly upset, but what can ya do? As I recall, she still won the match, but this is just one example reinforcing what everyone has been telling you...and
proof that when used in pro matches it MAY have a negative effect. Tell you one thing for sure...the Sardo rack is NOT easy to use. It takes practice just to use the darn thing correctly...and like dan said, once the cloth is "trained" you can rack a perfect rack without using it at all! I have done it myself.

Scott Lee

Icon of Sin
12-30-2002, 07:56 PM
you know, i dont even care about the damn rack anymore, to hell with it, but you guys are saying dan has the right to call me a degenerate or a twit... i think that is a little messed up.

he did his part and voiced his opionion about the rack in a non rude manner, then i voiced mine in a non rude manor. Then he is allowed to call me a twit and cheese is allowed to call me a youth... i dont understand this???

you guys have both definately swayed my opionion into not buying one of course but the fact of the matter is why did we have to revert to name calling???

dan, i take your word for it, from looking at your post count i see of course that you been around, but is this how you would treat all your peers?


I really like this place, and i like the guys here, even you dan... just the name calling thing seemed a bit out of line...

this is going to be my last post in this thread so I can avoid further confrontation, i like this place and i care to stay as long as everyone will still have me...

Scott Lee
12-30-2002, 08:14 PM
Sin...Part of it is that this subject has been hashed over so many times (i.e.: search archives on Sardo Rack), that we were just trying to give you the "heads up". dan meant no disrespect...just that you were saying things that have already been disproven (i.e.: "they wouldn't use it if it really screwed things up"...sort of what you said). The Sardo Rack is used because they paid big bucks for people to use them. We like having you here...try not to take serious offense, when things are pointed out to you. Almost ALL of us would never 'attack' another poster, unless they had been somewhat out of line with they're info!
All of us here want to pass on as much "truth" in billiards as we are able to. Keep posting!

Scott Lee

Icon of Sin
12-30-2002, 08:17 PM
i know i said my last post was gonna be my last...

Scott... the man called me a twit....

this is my last post in this topic...