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View Full Version : Corey's 2 ball shot from the Mosconi Cup



Tommy_Davidson
01-01-2003, 03:07 PM
> Did anyone see that phenomenal shot on the 2 ball by corey deuel during his match with Steve Davis from the Mosconi Cup? It was as impressivean offensive shot as I've seen in quite a while. I'm going to try and diagram it on the WEI table. Here goes. START(
%AO7O4%BL0C4%CK8O4%DM8N1%EP5Z3%FL8P0%GL8N7%HN7N8%I M7O3%JL8M5
%KK8P6%LK8N1%ML8Q2%NK8Q8%OK8M0%Pu6E7%Qr0X0%WM2D1%X t9E6%[M1C7
%\N2B3%eB9a4%_N4B9%`P6G8%av2U5%bv2U7%cu0V7%dr9X4
)END > My diagram may not be the best indicator,as this was the first time I've diagrammed a shot using this WEI table. Corey shot down on the cue ball with LEFT english,overcut the ball into the pocket,the cue ball went to the rail then curved in a radical arc to the end rail,where the left spin killed the cue ball to spot A,leaving him straight in on the 5. I've never seen this shot attempted at that distance,with the cue ball that close to the rail,much less pocketed with position. Anyone else see it? Maybe they can clarify if perhaps I saw something different than what happened. Tommy D.

JohnnyP
01-01-2003, 04:18 PM
Thank's for bringing this up. I've played the tape back a few times, and can't figure it out. When viewed from above, it looks like he's aiming to miss the ball by six inches.

jjinfla
01-01-2003, 05:19 PM
That was an amazing full table draw shot. Grady Matthews starts out his video with one. I still think those shots are done with mirrors or magic. LOL. Did you see the shot Earl made on the 7 ball? He got out of line and found himself having to bank the 7 cross side. Only problem was that the 8 ball was at the end of the table to his left and the 7 was to the right of the center pocket and the CB was to the right of the 7. He banked the 7 ball into the side pocket, then the cue ball followed to the side rail, bounced off a few inches, stopped and made a 90 degree right turn and rolled down to the end rail. A truly remarkable shot. I have read about making shots like that but have never been able to do them. Jake

Kato
01-02-2003, 10:23 AM
I was in my room and I just heard my roomate going, "no, no, that can't be, that didn't happen" for about 5 minutes!!!!!! 2 nights ago he showed me the shot and tried it about 10 times, never making it or drawing the ball. I'll try it tonight but I just can't see it being possible. The cloth was probably helpful though.

Kato

Ken
01-02-2003, 11:05 AM
It was a little different. I've played the tape in slo-mo and don't see any radical arc. The cue ball simply goes off the cushion and back at an angle toward the side rail in response to the backspin. It hits the side rail and goes into the 4 thus stopping near the corner pocket. It is not killed by left english since that would be running english off the side rail. He cued the ball in the center and there was no english involved. The 3 ball was the next ball.

I just tried the shot and made the 2 on the first try but only backed the cue ball up about 2 inches. It stopped about one diamond out toward the center of the table. I would have had an easy bank but no straight in shot on the three. I suspect that is the best I could do and will not risk missing it 50 times to get a better result. Sometimes I just get lucky (in pool, that is).
KenCT

Fred Agnir
01-02-2003, 11:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr> The cloth was probably helpful though.

Kato <hr /></blockquote>
Cloth, ball cleanliness, the lights, they all help. Having world-class cue delivery might be useful, too.

I saw Ginky shoot the following full-jump and draw shot (a shot in Mike Massey's standard repertoire) at a Joss tournament, no cameras, lights, just good tournament conditions:

Goto the Instroke Wei Table (not the RSB Wei Table)
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/instroke/instroke_table.html

START(
%AT3E3%Br5O2%Ia7F3%Pl7F8%T]5E6%WV6E6%Xk5F5%_q2W1%`[4K9%aU4E5

)END

Supposedly, the following is part of Mike Massey's show:


http://www.omniscium.com/artsy/ShotArchive/ShowShot.asp?ShotID=25

Fred

thepoolnerd
01-02-2003, 11:43 AM
I've seen Corey practicing and seen him do similar shots. He can shoot a similar frozen cueball shot at a hanger on the other side of the table and draw back 9 feet to the end rail or at another hanger. I was laughed at when I told people about it, until the Mosconi cup. Great stroke.

Kato
01-02-2003, 12:01 PM
He does have an absolutely ridiculous stroke no doubt. Like Voodoo said previously about him running something like 7 racks in a row against the 12 ball ghost on a tricked up table. Cory can play a 'lil.

Kato

Ross
01-02-2003, 02:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> It was a little different. I've played the tape in slo-mo and don't see any radical arc. The cue ball simply goes off the cushion and back at an angle toward the side rail in response to the backspin. It hits the side rail and goes into the 4 thus stopping near the corner pocket. It is not killed by left english since that would be running english off the side rail. He cued the ball in the center and there was no english involved. ... <hr /></blockquote>

Ken, I agree with you that the cue ball did not arc, but I think Corey did use bottom left english for several reasons:

1. With center draw the cue ball would come back at a much shallower angle.
2. It appears that way when he strokes it on my Tivo slo-mo. He appears to be aiming to the left of the 2, hits the cb on the left which squirts a bit to the right to hit the 2 dead on.
3. I was able to duplicate the shot on Virtual Pool only when I used bottom left. (Note that the left english only affects the draw angle if the cue is elevated significantly.) Also, I had to move the cue ball off the rail about a 1/2" to make it work. Apparently VP would not let me deform the cushion as I shot through it.

BTW, on a real table you did better than me. I tried the shot at my local pool hall a few times and never made the ball nor got more than an inch or so of draw. I think if I wanted to (try to?) learn this shot I would use the progressive drill approach. Start with cue ball 1" off the rail and object ball a lot closer, maybe shooting it across the table at first. Gradually bring the cue ball closer to the rail and then gradually increase distance to ob. To complicate things, I could add left or right english along the way.

Rod
01-02-2003, 03:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr> The cloth was probably helpful though.

Kato <hr /></blockquote>
Cloth, ball cleanliness, the lights, they all help. Having world-class cue delivery might be useful, too.

I saw Ginky shoot the following full-jump and draw shot (a shot in Mike Massey's standard repertoire) at a Joss tournament, no cameras, lights, just good tournament conditions:

Goto the Instroke Wei Table (not the RSB Wei Table)
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/instroke/instroke_table.html

START(
%AT3E3%Br5O2%Ia7F3%Pl7F8%T]5E6%WV6E6%Xk5F5%_q2W1%`[4K9%aU4E5

)END

Supposedly, the following is part of Mike Massey's show:


http://www.omniscium.com/artsy/ShotArchive/ShowShot.asp?ShotID=25

Fred

<hr /></blockquote>


Well this goes back a short time ago when a person or more said it was a foul. The claim was since it's a jump shot, it is illegal to strike the c/b below center. LOL I wonder how you go about drawing Ginky's shot without hitting it below center unless your a magician!

Fred I've shot Massey's shot many times, maybe before he did,LOL it's been around a long time, and make it. Just three differences, with the c/b behind the headstring and more angle plus different c/b travel. I'd really have to see him do that with the c/b frozen on the end rail to believe it. A short distance off like position # C is certainly possible. But that angle looks to straight in. I'll have to try similar to C but on new cloth as I'm sure he had.
Here is my version, the c/b does make a big bend as shown. I've never shot it close to the rail but I'll give it a try when the conditions are good. That does make a big difference as you said.

START(
%AH4Z7%ID5D4%Pj1T6%QA9[1%Rf7W5%So1V9%UF0E7%Vm8[4%Wq9U8%XX3C4
%eC4b3%_I7[1%`L6N3%aW5C8
)END
You can copy and paste it to the RSB link.http://www.omniscium.com/artsy/ShotArchive/ShowShot.asp?ShotID=25

For anyone wanting to d/l the wei program to their desktop this is the link. http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/download/pooltable2.exe

Don't use that table with snow because it won't come out right.

Ken
01-02-2003, 04:53 PM
Ross, It does look like he might be putting some left english on it. Tough to tell from the camera angle.

I guess I cheated when I tried the shot. I put the cue ball about a half inch off the rail and I see that it was actually on the rail. It just didn't seem possible to get that much draw with the ball on the rail. I made the 2 again on my fourth try but the cue ball just stuck near where the 2 was. I made the bank on the 3 though.

I tried it with the cue ball on the rail and made the 2 on the first and sixth try but it was all follow for the cue ball. Made the bank on the 3 again though.

On the sixth try the cueball didn't follow to the foot rail but went forward to the left and that's the closest I came to draw. I don't think I'm tall enough to elevate the cue with any power to make that shot.
KenCT

phil in sofla
01-02-2003, 06:34 PM
Goto the Instroke Wei Table (not the RSB Wei Table)&lt;&lt;

Fred:

Better cloth on the instroke version, or what?

Fred Agnir
01-03-2003, 08:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote phil in sofla:</font><hr> Goto the Instroke Wei Table (not the RSB Wei Table)&lt;&lt;

Fred:

Better cloth on the instroke version, or what?

<hr /></blockquote>

Haha! Actually, the snow was impeding my visibility for my jump shot.

Fred &lt;~~~ too many cold rolls on that winter table

Ross
01-03-2003, 03:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> Ross, It does look like he might be putting some left english on it. Tough to tell from the camera angle.

I guess I cheated when I tried the shot. I put the cue ball about a half inch off the rail and I see that it was actually on the rail. It just didn't seem possible to get that much draw with the ball on the rail. I made the 2 again on my fourth try but the cue ball just stuck near where the 2 was. I made the bank on the 3 though.

I tried it with the cue ball on the rail and made the 2 on the first and sixth try but it was all follow for the cue ball. Made the bank on the 3 again though.

On the sixth try the cueball didn't follow to the foot rail but went forward to the left and that's the closest I came to draw. I don't think I'm tall enough to elevate the cue with any power to make that shot.
KenCT <hr /></blockquote>

It is definitely the most difficult shot I've ever seen used in pro competition. I wonder how long Corey had to practice that shot to learn it well enough to use it in competition? I hope a real long time. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif