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SpiderMan
01-02-2003, 01:55 AM
Anybody have a recently-purchased Hercules tip and a magnifier handy? Can you count the layers?

All of the vendors offering these tips have the same ad copy, 23 layers of pigskin, but the "Hercules" tips I recently got from Atlas have only 11 layers. I called to ask about it, and was told that was the way they were now being supplied.

I'm suspicious, because when I compare the Atlas "Hercules" with a Talisman Pro, they are identical. I mean REALLY identical, right down to the exact color of gold ink and font size used to mark the hardness grade. Even the layer appearance (wavy, like all T. Pros) and total thickness are the same.

I think someone has their inventory jumbled, but then I've never tried to purchase Hercules tips before either, so I can't be sure. What's the verdict on a "real" Hercules, 23 layers as advertised, or only 11? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SpiderMan

BillPorter
01-02-2003, 07:15 AM
Spidey, I have a tip that I purchased from Billiards Express for $7.50 that was sold as a Hercules. Using a magnifying glass, I counted the layers and, while I wouldn't stake my life on the accuracy of the count, I counted 16 layers. I like a softer tip like a Le Pro or even Elk Master, so I am not using a Hercules on my playing cue. BTW, I remember haviing bought a Hercules tip from the same source several months ago and while I don't remember the number of layers I DO recall thinking to myself that it was definitely less than 23.

01-02-2003, 08:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Anybody have a recently-purchased Hercules tip and a magnifier handy? Can you count the layers?

All of the vendors offering these tips have the same ad copy, 23 layers of pigskin, but the "Hercules" tips I recently got from Atlas have only 11 layers. I called to ask about it, and was told that was the way they were now being supplied.

I'm suspicious, because when I compare the Atlas "Hercules" with a Talisman Pro, they are identical. I mean REALLY identical, right down to the exact color of gold ink and font size used to mark the hardness grade. Even the layer appearance (wavy, like all T. Pros) and total thickness are the same.

I think someone has their inventory jumbled, but then I've never tried to purchase Hercules tips before either, so I can't be sure. What's the verdict on a "real" Hercules, 23 layers as advertised, or only 11? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

wirthout really answering your question: i do know that talisman made hercules tips for a long time. same tips, different label. tony jones mentioned a couple of months ago that the deal had been terminated for whatever reason. i suppose it's possible that the talisman/herks may still be working their way out of the system.

tony answers mail to: sales@talismanbilliards.com

dan

Troy
01-02-2003, 09:45 AM
Mmmm, 11 layers of pigskin plus 10 layers of adhesive makes 21 layers...... That's closer to 23.........:) /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'll stay with Talisman Pro Domed Tips.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Anybody have a recently-purchased Hercules tip and a magnifier handy? Can you count the layers?

All of the vendors offering these tips have the same ad copy, 23 layers of pigskin, but the "Hercules" tips I recently got from Atlas have only 11 layers. I called to ask about it, and was told that was the way they were now being supplied.

I'm suspicious, because when I compare the Atlas "Hercules" with a Talisman Pro, they are identical. I mean REALLY identical, right down to the exact color of gold ink and font size used to mark the hardness grade. Even the layer appearance (wavy, like all T. Pros) and total thickness are the same.

I think someone has their inventory jumbled, but then I've never tried to purchase Hercules tips before either, so I can't be sure. What's the verdict on a "real" Hercules, 23 layers as advertised, or only 11? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

SpiderMan
01-02-2003, 11:20 AM
And if you assume that they got a little glue on the top and bottom of the finished tip, then that's 23! Ha Ha Ha! Creative advertising! Anyway, the ad says "23 layers of pigskin". I think they just have their tips in the wrong bin at the warehouse.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> Mmmm, 11 layers of pigskin plus 10 layers of adhesive makes 21 layers...... That's closer to 23.........:) /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'll stay with Talisman Pro Domed Tips.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Anybody have a recently-purchased Hercules tip and a magnifier handy? Can you count the layers?

All of the vendors offering these tips have the same ad copy, 23 layers of pigskin, but the "Hercules" tips I recently got from Atlas have only 11 layers. I called to ask about it, and was told that was the way they were now being supplied.

I'm suspicious, because when I compare the Atlas "Hercules" with a Talisman Pro, they are identical. I mean REALLY identical, right down to the exact color of gold ink and font size used to mark the hardness grade. Even the layer appearance (wavy, like all T. Pros) and total thickness are the same.

I think someone has their inventory jumbled, but then I've never tried to purchase Hercules tips before either, so I can't be sure. What's the verdict on a "real" Hercules, 23 layers as advertised, or only 11? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

SpiderMan
01-02-2003, 11:22 AM
Thanks Bill,

The fact that you counted 16 tells me that it's definitely more than 11. I'm pretty sure they sent me the wrong merchandise.

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
01-02-2003, 11:24 AM
Yes, I read the same post several months ago. That's another reason why I'm suspicious that someone just decided to substitute the tips on me. These are almost definitely Talisman Pro Non-Domed, and definitely not a 23-layer tip.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote houstondan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Anybody have a recently-purchased Hercules tip and a magnifier handy? Can you count the layers?

All of the vendors offering these tips have the same ad copy, 23 layers of pigskin, but the "Hercules" tips I recently got from Atlas have only 11 layers. I called to ask about it, and was told that was the way they were now being supplied.

I'm suspicious, because when I compare the Atlas "Hercules" with a Talisman Pro, they are identical. I mean REALLY identical, right down to the exact color of gold ink and font size used to mark the hardness grade. Even the layer appearance (wavy, like all T. Pros) and total thickness are the same.

I think someone has their inventory jumbled, but then I've never tried to purchase Hercules tips before either, so I can't be sure. What's the verdict on a "real" Hercules, 23 layers as advertised, or only 11? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

wirthout really answering your question: i do know that talisman made hercules tips for a long time. same tips, different label. tony jones mentioned a couple of months ago that the deal had been terminated for whatever reason. i suppose it's possible that the talisman/herks may still be working their way out of the system.

tony answers mail to: sales@talismanbilliards.com

dan <hr /></blockquote>

Sid_Vicious
01-02-2003, 11:38 AM
I think that they should send you the 23 layered Hercs, and let you keep these you now have, no charge. It's false advertising any way you look at it...sid

Rod
01-02-2003, 06:20 PM
Spidey,
Hard to Imagine 23 layers. With a tip being about 1/4" tall how thick would these layers be? Seems like it could be near 25% glue. I'd rather chalk and play with leather than glue. Just a thought.

TalismanTony
01-14-2003, 03:59 AM
Hi Spiderman,

I would of answered this one sooner but I have been away from the computer. The 23 layer tip by Hercules is actually not 23 layers. I really don't know why they put out claims like this but there you go /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif.

Its probably just a regular Hercules tip, repackaged - they look very similar to my Talisman PRO tips.

SpiderMan
01-14-2003, 10:48 AM
Left is the "Hercules Medium". Right is the Talisman Pro Soft. Do they appear to bear only the similarities you are used to, or is it more that that? Could there have been a product mislabeling at Atlas? Check also the gold lettering.

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/funkychateau/vwp?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album&amp;.src=ph&amp;.dnm=Bogus+Hercules+%23 1.jpg&amp;.view=t&amp;.done

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/funkychateau/vwp?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album&amp;.src=ph&amp;.dnm=Bogus+Hercules+%23 2.jpg&amp;.view=t&amp;.done

SpiderMan

TalismanTony
01-14-2003, 12:40 PM
Hi Spiderman,

You're absolutely right, they look the same.

The Hercules could be from the time we produced them. Even now some Hercules are produced in Thailand and some in China. The ones produced here in Thailand still look very similar to Talisman PRO tips, although we now have different gold stamping with our name on ours. The difference in the tips is the quality of leather and additional diligence and QC during manufacturing. I believe the Talisman tips to be superior in both.

I am not sure if this is mislabelling at Atlas, probably not. I had heard the people who get the Hercules made here were marketing a 23 layer tip and that it was in just fact marketing hype and in fact a regular Hercules tip. I have heard a similar thing about Hercules Balabushka tips. The ones I saw were repacked, regular Hercules under a new name and at a higher cost. So buyer beware.

I am usually not one to say anything about a competitor's product, especially anything negative, but I don't like marketing that deceives customers.

best regards,
Tony