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01-05-2003, 01:14 PM
ok, I've been experimenting, and wondering if I'm on the right track. I suppose I am, since it's working well FOR ME, so maybe I'll just pass on the idea to anyone struggling with long, almost strait in shots, cut shots, or do-or-die shots.

I got tired of "knowing" I was gonna miss some of these shots, so after watching a strait pool match on one of my few accu-stats tapes, I realized that, although it's not perfect technique to ALWAYS "poke" at the ball with a short stroke.. it works good if you are on the rail, with a long shot. Not a total POKE, but just a short, strait stroke.. just don't pull all the way back on the back swing.. just an inch or two.. and maybe pause for a second before shooting.

It works pretty well to "dog-proof" that long difficult shot. As I play for the next few years, I may change my strategy.. but for now, it works. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Also, don't use more than a half-tip of englaise.

Chris Cass
01-05-2003, 01:34 PM
Hi Kid,

Good to hear from you again. I think your referring to cinching the ball. I've known a lot of players that do this but I don't recommend it myself but others had good results. Either way you have to follow-thru the cb regardless of how far. IMHO

Regards,

C.C.~~what ever works.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TonyM
01-05-2003, 03:40 PM
I use a similar adjustment when playing Snooker. If I have a long pot on a red (it could be as much as 11 feet away!) and all I have to do is cinch the pot, then I'll use a short backswing (as short as I can do and still remain smooth, probably about 2" or so), and a centerball hit on the cue ball (actually, center on the horizontal axis, but just above center to get natural roll). I use about medium speed, and try and follow through fully, even with the short backswing.

It's a technique that many snooker players use.

The basic premise behind the idea is that once you have brought the tip up to the cue ball the last time before pulling the trigger (and have verified that both the tip/ball location looks right and that the cue is pointing at the correct area of the object ball) then the farther you bring the tip away from the ball on the backswing, the greater the chance for error on the way forward.

With a really long shot, the aim has to be right, but the hit on the cue ball has to be particularily precise. A small error of a few mm of accidental sidespin can produce a cue ball path deviation that can easily lead to a miss over a long distance.

Now, for the situation where the cue ball and object ball are close, but the object ball is a long distance from the pocket, it is the hit on the object ball that is most important.

There are some great potters that use a short backswing:

Snooker player Tony Drago, Allen Hopkins, Alain Martel, Canadian "Jumpin" Joe Lawrence, and so on....

I prefer to use a medium length backswing on most shots because it suits my timing and rhythm, but for certain shots the short backswing can really help.

It is more of a preventative measure, than a corrective measure.

A corrective measure would be to develop a stroke so straight that you could pull it back a normal distance and still always hit the cue ball accurately. Some of us (most?) will never be able to do this.

A preventative measure (like the short backswing) accepts the current level of error in our strokes, and seeks to limit the "damage" Lol!

Tony
-plenty of damage to limit here.....

bigbro6060
01-05-2003, 06:16 PM
Not sure how you managed to list Alain Martel in a list of great potters /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

He has what must be the ugliest techniques in any cue sport

01-05-2003, 06:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Kid,

Good to hear from you again. I think your referring to sinching the ball. I've known a lot of players that do this but I don't recommend it myself but others had good results. Either way you have to follow-thru the cb regardless of how far. IMHO

Regards,

C.C.~~what ever works.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>


Hey Chris! How are ya doin?!?! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

yeah, like I said, I might change this as I play more, but it seems the more you pull back on the backswing on a delicate shot, the more chance there is for error.. and on a do or die shot, or ANY important shot, I wanna make the least amount of room for error as possible.. even if it doesn't LOOK pretty, it's the results I'm after. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nice hearin from you again. When're ya gonna be in the seattle area?? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

01-05-2003, 06:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TonyM:</font><hr> I use a similar adjustment when playing Snooker. If I have a long pot on a red (it could be as much as 11 feet away!) and all I have to do is cinch the pot, then I'll use a short backswing (as short as I can do and still remain smooth, probably about 2" or so), and a centerball hit on the cue ball (actually, center on the horizontal axis, but just above center to get natural roll). I use about medium speed, and try and follow through fully, even with the short backswing.

It's a technique that many snooker players use.

The basic premise behind the idea is that once you have brought the tip up to the cue ball the last time before pulling the trigger (and have verified that both the tip/ball location looks right and that the cue is pointing at the correct area of the object ball) then the farther you bring the tip away from the ball on the backswing, the greater the chance for error on the way forward.

With a really long shot, the aim has to be right, but the hit on the cue ball has to be particularily precise. A small error of a few mm of accidental sidespin can produce a cue ball path deviation that can easily lead to a miss over a long distance.

Now, for the situation where the cue ball and object ball are close, but the object ball is a long distance from the pocket, it is the hit on the object ball that is most important.

There are some great potters that use a short backswing:

Snooker player Tony Drago, Allen Hopkins, Alain Martel, Canadian "Jumpin" Joe Lawrence, and so on....

I prefer to use a medium length backswing on most shots because it suits my timing and rhythm, but for certain shots the short backswing can really help.

It is more of a preventative measure, than a corrective measure.

A corrective measure would be to develop a stroke so straight that you could pull it back a normal distance and still always hit the cue ball accurately. Some of us (most?) will never be able to do this.

A preventative measure (like the short backswing) accepts the current level of error in our strokes, and seeks to limit the "damage" Lol!

Tony
-plenty of damage to limit here..... <hr /></blockquote>

Well, exactly! In fact, it was Allen Hopkins that I was watching on the accu-stats tape playing Jim Rempe in strait pool, and it just seems to me that if you are 80 balls down, and get your first chance at the table and of course it's not an easy shot, but rather a long, slight cut and you can't afford to miss it as it may cost you the match, and you've been sitting for a while.. the short stroke with a small backswing and follow through would be your best bet to pot that ball. Usually on a shot like that, if you are behind, you aren't playing a WHOLE lot of position, but rather just trying to stay in the middle of the table.

I don't particularly care for Allens stroke since he does it on EVERY shot, but it's helpful for those tough shots.

Alain Martel has an interesting style.. if you wanna call it a style. For a big guy, he sure jumps pretty good after a shot. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Thanks for the reply(!).

Jon from MN
01-05-2003, 07:06 PM
Hi Kid I know you have been posting for a long time if you look back I always refer to using that system a 2, 3, 4 e.t.c.inch stroke remember to follow through the same as you draw back. I teach this and most of the top teachers teach this. also on long shots like that you need to feel the rock. Good luck Jon from Mn

Rod
01-05-2003, 09:08 PM
SK,

What I do as opposed to the shorter stroke with a normal bridge length. I make my bridge shorter and move forwards on the back of the cue. This automatically shortens up the stroke length. Then use a normal stroke. When the c/b is on the rail I, for lack of better words, drop the cue on the c/b and don't force any type of follow thru if making the ball is the primary goal. What ever works for you.

TonyM
01-06-2003, 12:40 AM
Alain IS a great potter. You mistake the appearance of technique for effectiveness my friend. Allen Hopkins has one of the ugliest looking techniques you will ever see. But it has been very effective for him.

I'm not saying that any of the players on my list have what I would call a "pretty" stroke. But ever one is deadly accurate.

Tony
-believe it or not, Martel also played Snooker with that "technique"! Quite effectively or so I'm told!......

Fred Agnir
01-06-2003, 08:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigbro6060:</font><hr> Not sure how you managed to list Alain Martel in a list of great potters /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

He has what must be the ugliest techniques in any cue sport <hr /></blockquote>
LOL!!! I watched Alain "The Dancing Bear" Martel run 120+ with this very poor technique. Absolutely terrible technique, but I'd trade with him if it meant I could run 100's.

Fred &lt;~~~ never saw Alain do a short stroke.

Bob_in_Cincy
01-06-2003, 10:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>
Fred &lt;~~~ never saw Alain do a short stroke. <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Fred,

TonyM has said what he does on those kind of shots. What do you do? Inquiring minds want to know.

Regards,

Bob in Cincy

PS. Enjoyed the equipment pics

01-06-2003, 03:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jon from MN:</font><hr> Hi Kid I know you have been posting for a long time if you look back I always refer to using that system a 2, 3, 4 e.t.c.inch stroke remember to follow through the same as you draw back. I teach this and most of the top teachers teach this. also on long shots like that you need to feel the rock. Good luck Jon from Mn <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Jon! yeah, I've been posting for a couple years now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As far as I can tell, this "little stroke" works great in those clencher situations. I had one the other night.. not for money or a tournament, but I was just playing for fun at my local bar, undefeated all night, and I had a wierd 8-ball that was about an inch to the right from the spot, and the cueball was by the corner pocket all the way up-table. if the 8-ball were 5" over or so, it would be strait in.. but it was at an angle, I was kinda jacked up, so I tried my "1/2 tip of running english and a short stroke" shot and made it.. it's one of those shots that I have dogged many times trying to stroke it like a normal shot.

So that system works pretty well, as we all know, EVERY ball is important to make when your trying to make it.

Thanks, Jon.

BTW, is it true that minnesota has all the good players because it's so cold that noone does anything but play pool? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jon from MN
01-06-2003, 05:23 PM
LOL actually there is alot of truth to that. Minnesotans have been excelling in billiards since I can remember. Ice fishing or pool hmmmm Pool works for me, Jon from MN

bigbro6060
01-06-2003, 10:24 PM
I'm not saying that Alain isn't a bad player!

he kicks arse and it works for him

BUT

give me Ronnie O Sullivan or Stephen Hendry's stroke any day /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif