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01-09-2003, 11:19 AM
Should a APA league operator be able to play in league & APA tournaments matches?

Scott Lee
01-09-2003, 01:25 PM
Any APA L.O. is allowed to play not only in their own league, but also in Singles qualifiers to go to the National Singles in Las Vegas. Whether or not they "should" play is another question. In the four years I was an APA L.O., I declined to play in my own league, partly because any team I was on I would be out to win it all, and there would certainly be talk and suspiscion that there was cheating of some kind (whether it was true or not), if my team DID win! I did, however, play in outside APA handicapped tournaments that I set up and ran, with no qualms from my players. Whenever I played, I always played at the top handicap. Several APA L.O.'s qualify to play in the Singles Nationals, although I have never seen one play on a team in the Team Nationals. Several APA L.O.'s play in the APA Amateur Nationals every year also. I personally see no problem with an APA L.O. playing in their own league, as long as they are a) upfront about their ability, and b) on-the-level about how they run their local leagues...ino, the players like the way the league is run.

Scott Lee

Wally_in_Cincy
01-09-2003, 01:44 PM
Scott,

As long as you're here /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif When we have our annual APA tourney in May to determine which teams goes to Vegas, the rule in the past has been "you play at the highest handicap you have been during the last 12 months". There's some talk now of changing that to playing at your current handicap in May. I can predict a long spring session of sandbagging.....

Scott Lee
01-09-2003, 08:38 PM
Wally...I can't tell you about what's happening with which score they will use. I've been out since '95! However, imo, a player should NEVER be lowered...barring some catastrophic physical event. You know how I feel about sandbagging...it can only go on if both teams allow it, and the league operator doesn't care. Good luck!

Scott

01-13-2003, 04:50 PM
"Sandbagging" is such a dirty word. Not to mention it can get you into some trouble in the APA. I prefer to call it "handicap management". Try to use this phrase in place of that dirty one. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

curt
01-13-2003, 09:25 PM
What a great post! I also had to exercise "handicap management" for years until I was raised to a SL7 a few years back. It's so much more pleasurable just shooting.

silverbullet
01-13-2003, 09:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote curt:</font><hr> What a great post! I also had to exercise "handicap management" for years until I was raised to a SL7 a few years back. It's so much more pleasurable just shooting. <hr /></blockquote>

I do not understand this. Is this when my captain kept putting me up against 4s,5s and 6s so that I would be a 2 for the tournament? Like I wasnt sandbagging but I was being sandbagged?

bw

Rich R.
01-14-2003, 05:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote captain:</font><hr> "Sandbagging" is such a dirty word. Not to mention it can get you into some trouble in the APA. I prefer to call it "handicap management". Try to use this phrase in place of that dirty one. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Call it what you want. It is still cheating the system.
JMHO.

silverbullet
01-14-2003, 06:30 AM
I totally agree. I do not believe in 'handicap management' if it is what I asked about. I do not think that it was right to hold down my sl so that I could beat that four in the playoffs. He was better than me. If I had been a sl3, in a 3-2 race, he would have won 3-1.It was 3-1, then I won one making it 3-2 before he could get to 4.

bw

TomBrooklyn
01-14-2003, 12:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr>my captain kept putting me up against 4s,5s and 6s so that I would be a 2 for the tournament? Like I wasnt sandbagging but I was being sandbagged?<hr /></blockquote>If your captain puts you in matches that he thinks your chances of winning are not good, as long as you play your best, it is not sandbagging. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Remember the captain has to balance whats best for the team against any preferences of individual players.

Besides that, a solid sl/3 playing as an sl/2 against sl/4-5-6s would have a considerable edge, and should win some if not most of their matches. If they cannot, there is no justification to make them an sl/3. Simply put, no matter who your opponents are in APA, if you are not winning most of your matches your sl should not go up. And why would anyone want it to? That would only help to ensure you lost more. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

01-14-2003, 04:41 PM
Silver mentioned something to the effect of not feeling right about beating a 4 in the playoffs. It's a valid point. If you feel guilty about sandbagging, then I'd reccomend playing balls out all the time. Plenty of people play that way and are successful at it. There's nothing wrong with it.

A couple of years ago, though, my team made it to the last round of the qualifier cup only to be BLOWN out of the water by some 4's that shot like 6's. Afterward, when they were having there team picture taken with that big old trophy and the money they collected for winning the turnament, I didn't see much guilt on their faces.

Personally, I keep my handicap down because my team often has trouble keeping our total night's handicap under 23. Since we've all been buds for 10-15 years, we'd rather not break up the team.

silverbullet
01-15-2003, 11:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote captain:</font><hr> Silver mentioned something to the effect of not feeling right about beating a 4 in the playoffs. It's a valid point. If you feel guilty about sandbagging, then I'd reccomend playing balls out all the time. Plenty of people play that way and are successful at it. There's nothing wrong with it.

A couple of years ago, though, my team made it to the last round of the qualifier cup only to be BLOWN out of the water by some 4's that shot like 6's. Afterward, when they were having there team picture taken with that big old trophy and the money they collected for winning the turnament, I didn't see much guilt on their faces.

Personally, I keep my handicap down because my team often has trouble keeping our total night's handicap under 23. Since we've all been buds for 10-15 years, we'd rather not break up the team. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks. The point I was making was this. He was 3-1. because i was an sl2 in a 4-2 race i won 2-3. If i had been an sl3 in a 3-2 race, he would of won 3-1. That was my whole point.

Well I guess I will have to go up eventually. My new captain is different anyway. Also we have 3 4s, one 5 and a 7 and two 3s so i think i will have more opportunity to play folks in my sl.

In the tournament I was put on the 4 as a dump. It was very logical. Our 4 could not have beat him in 3-3 race, our 3 could not have beat him in 3-2 race per our sl7 who knew the players. I had the best chance because i only had to get lucky twice and he had to win 4 times.Allso since I was a dump, I was expected to lose. They wanted to save the others for matches in which they could win.

If I had been a sl3, they would have put up our sl3(other guy) as a dump because he is somewhat better than I.

bw