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JPB
01-13-2003, 05:31 PM
Seen several of these on the internet. Anybody have one? What is the quality and how do they play? If they are decent, they seem like a good value for a higher end non-production cue. Tell me what you know. TIA>

Bob_in_Cincy
01-14-2003, 11:19 AM
Quality: recent years, very good, early ones, stay away from.

Value: I remember reading the transcript of a internet "chat" with several name cue makers. The consensus seemed to be that his cues are under valued.

Playability: I know a guy that plays pretty well who loves them. In fact, he has 5 of them. Other guy I know that plays very well says "They're all right", which I think was his polite way of saying he didn't care for them. He alternates between a Dale Perry & a Benson. I personally shot with one, but only for a rack of balls in practice. I kinda liked it. It has a slimmer grip that seemed to fit my small hands. But I can't honestly say that I felt it hit any better than my Joss. But as I said, I only hit one rack's worth. But it sure was pretty. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Oh yeah. If you're looking at the one currently on eBay, I'm not certain that's really one of Espiritu's. The signature doesn't look right to me. Compare to some of his cues for sale at On The Hill sales. http://www.onthehill.net/

HTH,

Bob_in_Cincy

Cueless Joey
01-14-2003, 11:35 AM
I bought one back in '96. A birdseye 4 pointer. The points were crooked. Very forward balance (ss joint) and the hit was loud and thuddy. I hated it and gave it away.
A friend of mine bought a very expensive one two years ago.
It has the same hit. Workamnship and finish were very good though. But the hit is nowhere like a Scruggs.

The Rhino Chaser
01-14-2003, 12:32 PM
Espiritu had a booth at the DCC. He had some really nice looking cues. Have never hit one but looks wise they were right up there. A couple of other cues to check out would be Jacoby and Josey. Ralph S bought a Jacoby it looked and played real nice. I my self play with the best hitting cue out there Josey cues(IMHO).

AndyG
01-16-2003, 08:19 AM
Bob, I agree that Russ's later cues may be somewhat undervalued. I also agree that his earlier cues were somewhat lacking in workmanship. I sold a few of his cues in the early 90's.

Speaking of undervalued, has anyone seen Bob Runde's work lately? He's doing spliced points again, and his workmanship has always been superb. He only makes about 20 cues a year now, and I've bought and sold about 7 in the last year or so. I've also been playing with one for a year. For the amount of work in a cue, his prices are very low. IMO.
Regards,
AndyG.

Rich R.
01-16-2003, 08:41 AM
Does Bob Runde have a website?
If not, is there another site where I can see his work?

AndyG
01-16-2003, 10:39 AM
Rich, As far as I know, he doesn't have one. There have been several of his cues on ebay recently with good pictures.

I believe www.billiardcues.com (http://www.billiardcues.com) has some for sale also.
AndyG.

woody
01-16-2003, 11:22 AM
I own a '95 Espiritu Cue. I like the hit and it plays good. But as far as workmanship from that time I would seriously look into how it has improved. The wood shrank on mine causing the rings to pop through the finish. I had it refinished right after I bought it. Then 1 year later the same thing happened. I gave it to Russ at the Valley Forge Expo for him to refinish. His wife admitted there was a problem and they had fixed it. What I didn't understand was that I was responsible to pay for rewrapping it. I reluctantly said OK. He sent it back and yes it needs to be refinished again, but I gave up, put it away and bought a Jacoby. They are quality cues for a good price and have an awesome hit. My cue was damaged (my own fault) and I sent it back to Jacoby for repair. There customer service, response, workmanship (for inlays I had them add), and the price I couldn't beat. Good Luck!

MikeM
01-16-2003, 11:44 AM
I own two Espiritu's - a '94 and a 2000. The '94 is one of my favorite cues for it's looks. It has probably the prettiest piece of tiger maple in the forearm I've ever seen. It's cocobolo and ebony with nice ivory accents. Gorgeous cue. But, as others have mentioned the wood had shrunk, the rings were popping, it is a very thin cue and whippy to play with. I had Russ refinish it and it looks even nicer now but I never play with it. The 2000 didn't have any of the problems of the '94 but it had been beat up pretty bad (I bough it used and got a good deal). Russ refinished that one too and it plays nice but it's just missing something. I keep that cue in my locker at the pool hall and play with it infrequently.

I much prefer my Scruggs or a Schon.

MM

Rich R.
01-16-2003, 12:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MikeM:</font><hr> I own two Espiritu's - a '94 and a 2000. The '94 is one of my favorite cues for it's looks. It has probably the prettiest piece of tiger maple in the forearm I've ever seen. It's cocobolo and ebony with nice ivory accents. Gorgeous cue. But, as others have mentioned the wood had shrunk, the rings were popping, it is a very thin cue and whippy to play with. I had Russ refinish it and it looks even nicer now but I never play with it. The 2000 didn't have any of the problems of the '94 but it had been beat up pretty bad (I bough it used and got a good deal). Russ refinished that one too and it plays nice but it's just missing something. I keep that cue in my locker at the pool hall and play with it infrequently.

I much prefer my Scruggs or a Schon.

MM <hr /></blockquote>
OK Mike, it is time to fess up.
Just how many cues do you have. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Have you become a "Collector" of fine cues? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MikeM
01-17-2003, 08:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> OK Mike, it is time to fess up.
Just how many cues do you have. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Have you become a "Collector" of fine cues? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I'm trying not to Rich, but it's so hard. There's so many nice cues out there and people keep tempting me (Voodoo, ebay, anyone at the PH with a nice stick). I think it's still under a dozen but who's counting?
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
MM

Rich R.
01-17-2003, 08:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MikeM:</font><hr>I'm trying not to Rich, but it's so hard. There's so many nice cues out there and people keep tempting me (Voodoo, ebay, anyone at the PH with a nice stick). I think it's still under a dozen but who's counting?
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
MM <hr /></blockquote>
I know the feeling Mike. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
If I ever win the Lottery, I'm sure a substantial portion of my winnings would go into buying cues. I just love them and could very easily become a collector, if money wasn't an issue. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

JPB
01-17-2003, 09:27 AM
Thanks for the input all. I found something cheap and very very solid around here. I bought it because I realized what I really wanted is a Josswest that I have significant input into. Since I am not going to shell out the dollars for that right now (and my game doesn't justify it of course but I'll get one someday anyway), I just wanted something I liked better than the heubler I got in like 1988. I ordered the huebler without having hit one and I thought it was a stainless joint. Rather it is a flat face joint with a stainless collar and the screw goes into plastic. It is objectively OK, but I never liked it at all. I hate the feel of it. The weight is wrong and I don't like the hit. I hit some Lucasis at the local store to see how I liked the uni-loc joints. I liked them, but one particular cue stood out. It is heavy, which I like generally, and is just rock solid. I hit it well. So I bought the cheap but not totally ugly chicom cue and got a great deal. I added a Predator shaft the guy had ordered and the customer never followed through on. So I got a great deal on an extremely solid cue. It is not as solid as the Helmstetter 3-cushion cue I had once and stupidly sold since I didn't get to play billiards anymore, but this cheap Lucasi is very impressive for the money and is much better than any pool cue I have owned. The billiard cue of course picked up a lot of solidity with the fat taper that I clearly don't want on my pool cue. I had a Meucci in the '80's that cost more in absolute dollars and was nowhere close to as good as this Lucasi. I think this will tide me over until I can get a ridiculous cue. So no Espiritu for me I don't think. Thanks all for the info tho.

01-17-2003, 02:20 PM
JPB,

I am glad you picked up a cue you like. Just keep in mind how much better that Custom Joss will feel when you go ahead and take the plunge.

Best of luck,

Jimbo

JPB
01-17-2003, 03:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimbo:</font><hr> JPB,

I am glad you picked up a cue you like. Just keep in mind how much better that Custom Joss will feel when you go ahead and take the plunge.

Best of luck,

Jimbo
<hr /></blockquote>

Tell my wife that please. She thinks furniture and money in the bank is at least as important as really cool toys. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dg-in-centralpa
01-17-2003, 04:50 PM
Never played with an Espiritu but they are good looking. Personally I play with a Richard Black "Bushka" model. Excellent custom cue for the money. I use a Predator 99-3 for my break stick. I also have a nice Schon as a reserve and would probably sell if anyone's interested. Wouldn't mind trying a Josswest or Samsara. I tried Jacoby, Schuler, but came back to the Black. Good Luck!

BillPorter
01-17-2003, 05:14 PM
You were speaking about a Joss West cue, and said,"Since I am not going to shell out the dollars for that right now (and my game doesn't justify it of course but I'll get one someday anyway." If you plan to "get one someday," I think you should plan to get one pretty some. Billy Stroud is about 60 and who knows how much longer he will be making cues. Just a thought....

JPB
01-17-2003, 05:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BillPorter:</font><hr> You were speaking about a Joss West cue, and said,"Since I am not going to shell out the dollars for that right now (and my game doesn't justify it of course but I'll get one someday anyway." If you plan to "get one someday," I think you should plan to get one pretty some. Billy Stroud is about 60 and who knows how much longer he will be making cues. Just a thought.... <hr /></blockquote>

By "someday" I mean as soon as I can con my wife into letting me. That means not tomorrow but less than 2 years. I am a good whiner. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I also exchanged e-mails w/ Stroud to ask questions and he never indicated he was in any trouble. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

JPB
01-17-2003, 05:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dg-in-centralpa:</font><hr> Never played with an Espiritu but they are good looking. Personally I play with a Richard Black "Bushka" model. Excellent custom cue for the money. I use a Predator 99-3 for my break stick. I also have a nice Schon as a reserve and would probably sell if anyone's interested. Wouldn't mind trying a Josswest or Samsara. I tried Jacoby, Schuler, but came back to the Black. Good Luck! <hr /></blockquote>


Those Richard Blacks look very tempting. Probably my second choice if I get a high-end cue. I just have always liked the Josswest cues. Nicest cue I ever saw was one Stroud made for a Denver player. Just what appeals to me is all I think.