PDA

View Full Version : Bar room pool tables



Tom_In_Cincy
01-13-2003, 05:53 PM
When you have finished a session of team play at your favorite places... do you thank the bar room owner for keeping their tables in good shape? Do you provide any feedback, good or bad?

You are the ones that are weekly players on those tables. You are the ones that can and are at least suppose to be familiar with the rolls on the tables.

Your room owner (unless they play often on the tables) can always pick up the phone and call the vending company, or a table mechanic for repairs. If its a well run bar, then these expences are already there..

Good tables promote better play.. and avoid loosing business. The bar room owners might even be more receptive to complaints about tables if they are done in a constructive manner.

My point is, that most of the league playing public uses bar tables and more than likely, accept the conditions of the table. With just a little feed back, those tables can be upgraded to better playing conditions.

Did you realize that Diamond Smart Tables are the tables that will be used in Vegas for the next 4 years? Simonis cloth and a red circle ball? Right now you can only play on Simonis and use a red circle ball in most pool rooms. NOT in a bar.

But, if Simonis and a red circle were available to the bar tables.. wouldn't it be to you and your team's advantage to play on them?

This will be available very soon.. its a great idea from Diamond Billiards for bar room tables.

I encourage all league players that use a bar box for their main pool table time to talk to the bar owners about upgrading their tables to allow you to be more competitive when it comes to playing pool and eventually playing in Vegas.

Please give yourself and your team a better chance at competing in Vegas by asking your bar table owner to upgrade to Simonis and a red circle cue ball.

Karatemom
01-13-2003, 06:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Did you realize that Diamond Smart Tables are the tables that will be used in Vegas for the next 4 years?
<hr /></blockquote>

Tom, I agree with you. Our local ph has 7' Diamond Smart tables and red circle cbs. However, I read at the BCA website, that we will be playing on 7' Valleys this year, not Diamonds. Big time let down. Not to mention using a plug ball. I'm not certain of the specifics, but I do remember reading that.

Check it out: www.bca-pool.com (http://www.bca-pool.com)

Heide ~ preparing for Vegas as we speak

01-13-2003, 06:09 PM
Tom, you must have forgotten the BCA started using Diamond Smart 7 ft tables, Simonis 860 and the Red Circle cb last year in Vegas. They do have a committment going forward as well.
Clay

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Did you realize that Diamond Smart Tables are the tables that will be used in Vegas for the next 4 years? Simonis cloth and a red circle ball? Right now you can only play on Simonis and use a red circle ball in most pool rooms. NOT in a bar.

But, if Simonis and a red circle were available to the bar tables.. wouldn't it be to you and your team's advantage to play on them?

This will be available very soon.. its a great idea from Diamond Billiards for bar room tables.

I encourage all league players that use a bar box for their main pool table time to talk to the bar owners about upgrading their tables to allow you to be more competitive when it comes to playing pool and eventually playing in Vegas.

Please give yourself and your team a better chance at competing in Vegas by asking your bar table owner to upgrade to Simonis and a red circle cue ball.
<hr /></blockquote>

Tom_In_Cincy
01-13-2003, 06:14 PM
Sorry Clay.. I do not remember that.. and if so, it still is more benificial for the bar box players for all LEAGUES to encourage the bar owner to upgrade to be competitive.

I hope Diamond Billiards is in a long term deal with the BCA as well.. This partnership can only promote better play and more great players.


"the BCA started using Diamond Smart 7 ft tables, Simonis 860 and the Red Circle cb last year in Vegas. They do have a committment going forward as well.
Clay"

Tom_In_Cincy
01-13-2003, 07:32 PM
But, Heide.. the APA will be using the Diamond Smart tables for the next four years.

What the BCA league does at Vegas for their 7 footers is bound to be Vally tables, but they may end up being modified. More to come on that news in the future.. no doubt.

Pool should be played on a common surface and using common cue balls. The size of the table does make some difference.. but the cloth and cue ball are very important properties in the game.. and should be common everywhere..

Rod
01-13-2003, 07:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> When you have finished a session of team play at your favorite places... do you thank the bar room owner for keeping their tables in good shape? Do you provide any feedback, good or bad?

Good point Tom, people should provide feedback.

You are the ones that are weekly players on those tables. You are the ones that can and are at least suppose to be familiar with the rolls on the tables.

Your room owner (unless they play often on the tables) can always pick up the phone and call the vending company, or a table mechanic for repairs. If its a well run bar, then these expences are already there..

Good tables promote better play.. and avoid loosing business. The bar room owners might even be more receptive to complaints about tables if they are done in a constructive manner.

Good tables do promote more business and players at all skill levels enjoy playing on good equipment. Most owners do like to hear comments from the public. They may not be aware of something and that is not limited to pool tables. We received a lot of compliments on our tables, not to mention the ladies room. That one is a biggie.



My point is, that most of the league playing public uses bar tables and more than likely, accept the conditions of the table. With just a little feed back, those tables can be upgraded to better playing conditions.

Yes but usually that is limited to recovering the tables, pocket liners etc.


Did you realize that Diamond Smart Tables are the tables that will be used in Vegas for the next 4 years? Simonis cloth and a red circle ball? Right now you can only play on Simonis and use a red circle ball in most pool rooms. NOT in a bar.

I wasn't aware that Diamonds are used. The last I heard, last year ,Valley tables are there and the guy that supplies them had the contract for 3 years. If I remember correctly.



But, if Simonis and a red circle were available to the bar tables.. wouldn't it be to you and your team's advantage to play on them?

I don't see an advantage unless your playing at home. When you go elsewhere and play with the Valley ball or a heavy ball it might be to your disadvantage. Especially if one plays a lot of draw shots.

This will be available very soon. its a great idea from Diamond Billiards for bar room tables.

I think this table is a great Idea, if nothing more that keeping the c/b and o/b ball weights the same.

I encourage all league players that use a bar box for their main pool table time to talk to the bar owners about upgrading their tables to allow you to be more competitive when it comes to playing pool and eventually playing in Vegas.

It's always worth a try.

Please give yourself and your team a better chance at competing in Vegas by asking your bar table owner to upgrade to Simonis and a red circle cue ball.
<hr /></blockquote>

Here is the rub. Most bar owners know how much abuse those tables and equipment take. You know the drunks and bangers ect. Most bars I've ever seen recover with a decent cloth but they do not want the added expense of simonis only to have some idiot spill a beer or worst. Another problem is the red circle will not return on a Valley or Dynamo. That means the owner/manager has to open the tables. While some will I know plenty that won't. IMO few bar owners will go to the extra expense just so conditions are similar to Vegas. Even then if Diamonds are used in Vegas you'll find few to play on in most communities. I sure want to wish everyone that tries good luck, but I think it may be a while before you see Diamonds at the local bars.

Tom in your spare time you should be a rep for Diamond and Simonis. LOL JK but you have the right idea.

01-13-2003, 07:42 PM
Tom, you're preaching to the choir but you're also dreaming about consistent surfaces and equipment. Golf, Bowling, Baseball, Football, Soccer, Horse Racing, Tennis, and every other sport/game is played on many different surfaces and conditions. What would make pool any different?
As long as all of the competitors are faced with the same conditions at each venue the ability to adjust is what makes the cream rise to the top. Just my opinion, Clay

Tom_In_Cincy
01-13-2003, 07:59 PM
Clay,
The opportunity is here in pool to make playing conditions more of the same..

Diamond has a sensor system that can be installed in most tables. NOT just Diamonds. This will allow the use of red circle cue balls.

The APA has a 5 year contract with Diamond Smart tables. It started last year. Simonis cloth and red circle cue balls are going to be the standard..

It makes sense to me to play on the same cloth and use the same cue ball in regular league play that you would in the big show..

The pool players can be in control of this if they just voice their collective opinion.. Things can change if you work hard enough and have the correct amount of support.

I have a vested interest in this. I want more league players playing better so that there will eventually be better players in the pool halls too..

Tom_In_Cincy
01-13-2003, 08:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr>
But, if Simonis and a red circle were available to the bar tables.. wouldn't it be to you and your team's advantage to play on them?

I don't see an advantage unless your playing at home. When you go elsewhere and play with the Valley ball or a heavy ball it might be to your disadvantage. Especially if one plays a lot of draw shots.
This is why the LEAGUE player must let ALL the bars know that they want the simonis and red circle cue ball available.
This will be available very soon. its a great idea from Diamond Billiards for bar room tables.

I think this table is a great Idea, if nothing more that keeping the c/b and o/b ball weights the same.

I encourage all league players that use a bar box for their main pool table time to talk to the bar owners about upgrading their tables to allow you to be more competitive when it comes to playing pool and eventually playing in Vegas.

It's always worth a try.

Please give yourself and your team a better chance at competing in Vegas by asking your bar table owner to upgrade to Simonis and a red circle cue ball.
<hr /></blockquote>

Here is the rub. Most bar owners know how much abuse those tables and equipment take. You know the drunks and bangers ect. Most bars I've ever seen recover with a decent cloth but they do not want the added expense of simonis only to have some idiot spill a beer or worst. Another problem is the red circle will not return on a Valley or Dynamo. That means the owner/manager has to open the tables. While some will I know plenty that won't. IMO few bar owners will go to the extra expense just so conditions are similar to Vegas. Even then if Diamonds are used in Vegas you'll find few to play on in most communities. I sure want to wish everyone that tries good luck, but I think it may be a while before you see Diamonds at the local bars. The bar room owners usually are renting the tables from the vendors. (Vally or others) The vendors will be able to upgrade the tables eventually. When enough renters ask for the product.. it can happen.

If the owner owns their tables, the expense of new cloth is not that much more for Simonis. Maybe 20% more.. and the sensor systems will be available for all ball return 7 foot tables.

Do you upgrade? and make playing conditions better and have better players? or do you leave things as the are and let someone else have the advantage? Good question.. I wonder what I would do? DUH?

Tom in your spare time you should be a rep for Diamond and Simonis. LOL JK but you have the right idea. <hr /></blockquote>
I would love to be part of the industry.. I just make more doing what I am doing now.. LOL

Karatemom
01-13-2003, 11:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> But, Heide.. the APA will be using the Diamond Smart tables for the next four years.

What the BCA league does at Vegas for their 7 footers is bound to be Vally tables, but they may end up being modified. More to come on that news in the future.. no doubt.

Pool should be played on a common surface and using common cue balls. The size of the table does make some difference.. but the cloth and cue ball are very important properties in the game.. and should be common everywhere.. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree with you. When we play leagues, one ph has Diamonds with red dots, the other has Valley's with plugs. It is a horrible switch back and forth. It's amazing the difference between the two types of tables, cloths, and cbs. Would prefer the Diamonds any day of the week, I'd even settle for Valleys that play like Diamonds. That won't happen around here, however, but I'd like to see it at the big tourneys, like the nationals.

Heide

Rod
01-13-2003, 11:46 PM
Tom, all valid points and I agree, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Some of the bars out here and other places I'm sure have a rough time making ends meet. I had spells when I had to settle for beans and weenies! LOL
We did play with red circle and always kept the tables in good condition, just not simonis. We also replaced cushions which is rare even in some pool rooms. Hell give me good cushions and I'm happy. Most pool rooms and especially bars think cushions last forever. I hate slow cushions! BTW if a bar owner leases his tables it costs him a lot of income. Changes take time like anything else. Since pool tables last a long time the old ones will be around for some time to come. But as you said, it can happen. I wonder what the c/b change over system costs from Diamond? A good way to promote is with facts, availability and prices. Arm the league players with that info and see what it returns, for those interested.

Tom_In_Cincy
01-13-2003, 11:53 PM
Pricing and availability are in the near future.. I am sure Diamond Billiards is going to share their sensor technology for any ball return table company.. at the right price..

Scott Lee
01-14-2003, 01:26 AM
Tom...Up in my part of the country, the tables (Valley 7') are owned by the same company that also owns the poker and keno machines, and the cigarette, candy, and jukeboxes. They also run the Valley league. The bar owners make so much money off of the gambling machines, that they could care less about the pool tables, or the players. However, the gaming company does have the foresight to use good cloth. They recovered 100 tables with Championship 30/30, which is a similar tight-weave cloth like Simonis.

BTW, when I talked to Greg about the Smart Tables, he told me Diamond wanted to take over the "bar table" market from Valley, and would put Smart Tables in ANY place for no money down...just a $35/week payment for 5 years (the bar owner would keep the drop). A pretty good deal if you ask me, but they need to work the kinks out with the tables first. Last summer at the trade show in N.O., they had a 7 footer that Dr. Cue was using in the APA booth. It would NOT work correctly the whole time the trade show was open. It wouldn't give the balls back, and you couldn't get them out! LOL Funny thing is, Greg's booth was right across from the APA booth, and he couldn't figure it out either!

Scott

SPetty
01-14-2003, 09:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Clay:</font><hr> Tom, you must have forgotten the BCA started using Diamond Smart 7 ft tables, Simonis 860 and the Red Circle cb last year in Vegas. They do have a committment going forward as well.<hr /></blockquote>Hi Clay,

You've probably figured out by now that you are mistaken. The BCA tournament uses Valley tables, and will for some years to come. It is the APA that is using the Smart tables.

I'm outfitting my home pool room with the 7' Valley Cougar, trying to match the Las Vegas specs, just in order to practice for the BCA tournament.

01-14-2003, 01:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> When you have finished a session of team play at your favorite places... do you thank the bar room owner for keeping their tables in good shape? Do you provide any feedback, good or bad?

Very good point Tom, I owned a neighborhood bar for 8+ years with 5 tables (3 Valley and 2 Dynamo)and always appreciated feedback from my customers.

You are the ones that are weekly players on those tables. You are the ones that can and are at least suppose to be familiar with the rolls on the tables.

Quite correct, there should be a home field advantage.

Your room owner (unless they play often on the tables) can always pick up the phone and call the vending company, or a table mechanic for repairs. If its a well run bar, then these expences are already there..

Ah, now here is the rub Tom. I owned all my own vending equipment and spared no expense keeping the felt new and clean. I purchased a ball polisher and even bought all new aramith balls for every table. I retipped the cues myself and purchased the highest quality bar cues available. I owned the very first CD jukebox in the state of Oklahoma that was in a bar (a local pizza joint called Crystals had the first one period). The problem arises in what we called vending company bars/clubs. You don't just pick up the phone, ask for new cloth and expect someone to rush over and go to work. Over 95% of the clubs here are leased from vending companies and they take their own sweet time when doing repairs or replacements no matter how loud the average operator may scream.

Good tables promote better play.. and avoid loosing business. The bar room owners might even be more receptive to complaints about tables if they are done in a constructive manner.

I agree completely.


My point is, that most of the league playing public uses bar tables and more than likely, accept the conditions of the table. With just a little feed back, those tables can be upgraded to better playing conditions.

Not necessarily, see my explanation above.

Did you realize that Diamond Smart Tables are the tables that will be used in Vegas for the next 4 years? Simonis cloth and a red circle ball? Right now you can only play on Simonis and use a red circle ball in most pool rooms. NOT in a bar.

And I imagine it will be that way for a long time to come.


But, if Simonis and a red circle were available to the bar tables.. wouldn't it be to you and your team's advantage to play on them?

Perhaps but probably not untill the majority of the tables are changed. It becomes the chicken and the egg problem.

This will be available very soon.. its a great idea from Diamond Billiards for bar room tables.

I encourage all league players that use a bar box for their main pool table time to talk to the bar owners about upgrading their tables to allow you to be more competitive when it comes to playing pool and eventually playing in Vegas.

It is worth a try.

Please give yourself and your team a better chance at competing in Vegas by asking your bar table owner to upgrade to Simonis and a red circle cue ball.
<hr /></blockquote>
I am not convinced it will make that great of a difference in your success.

Jimbo

Wally_in_Cincy
01-14-2003, 02:26 PM
Tom, sounds like you had a long conversation with Greg Sullivan at the DCC /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Personally I would love to be able to play under good conditions. Maybe if just a couple of bar owners would bite the bullet and install the Diamonds the word would spread. But then some guys from the vending companies would be out breaking the kneecaps of those bold innovators /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Hell I'd settle for a level table.

Tom_In_Cincy
01-15-2003, 03:47 PM
Actually I had a discussion with Greg.. but he did all the talking.. LOL

01-15-2003, 05:05 PM
Hell, we can't even get the owner in our home bar to replace the craked racks from the tables. You know how embarrassing it is to be hosting a match and to constantly have to go and borrow a rack from the next table? Simonis in our home bar? Ha...I've got a better chance of seeing Jesus.

Ralph S.
01-16-2003, 12:34 AM
Hey Wally, I can back that statement up. Greg did do all the talking or the lions share of it as Tom, myself and a few others were very interested in what he had to say. All of it was positive too.
Ralph S.