PDA

View Full Version : apa sl



silverbullet
01-13-2003, 09:34 PM
One of the league ops was tring to find 2s and 3s for his tues night 8 ball league. we are on the thurs one. we were talking about the apa system for going up based on w/l and innings. then he told me if he saw me play and thought i shouldnt be a two, he could just bump me up to whatever he thought i was based on how i played.

i thought that was dumb. i am not sandbagging. i am just starting to win more but since i did cruddy at the beginning of last season it may take a few more matches to get my w/l percent up.

anyway the reason i thought what that man said was dumb...suppose he watches me on a night i am really on but i dont always play that good and he bumped me [or it could be anybody]up based on that one match. that doesnt seem right imo.

I dont have a problem with going up but i would rather earn it and go up the regular way so am staying away from that guys apa night /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

bw

qSHAFT
01-13-2003, 09:48 PM
That exact situation happened to a friend of mine playing against the handicappers team a couple of months ago. He had the best game of his life and the next week he was ranked one grade below a master, though he doesn't play anywhere near consitantly enough to be graded at that level. It really affected the team and we lost pretty much every game after that, causing some members to want to leave. Surely you would think that the handicapper would be monitoring the effect of the handicap that he made up on the spur of the moment, but no change as of yet.

Yesterday I was having a really good practice session (approaching deadstroke) and the same handicapper came along and challenged me to a match. I declined and walked out the door before the same thing happened to me.

Don't think most handicappers really understand the importance about finding the level of play that someone consistantly plays at rather than peaks and troughs. I think formulas on previous game data are the only really fair way, but they have to be intelligent enough to pick out sandbagging, or the same stuff happens again.

TomBrooklyn
01-13-2003, 10:58 PM
Agreed. When APA started in Brooklyn in last summer, our team picked up a player who as all others came in as a four. In his first match he did excellent and the LO bumped him to a six for the next week. He lost a lot of matches until he was made a five which is all he should have been promoted to in the first place.

I would propose a good rule of thumb for an LO would be not to promote a player using discretion in lieu of match statistics up to more than one level below where he appears to be on any one night. The most he could be underhandicapped is then likely to be one level. Let the match statistics work out the players final standing. Thats what the handicapping computer program is for.

TomBrooklyn
01-13-2003, 11:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr>I dont have a problem with going up but i would rather earn it and go up the regular way so am staying away from that guys apa night<hr /></blockquote>You probably don't need to avoid his night because of that. He said he could do it, he didn't say he would do it. And all LO's have that power, so you can't avoid it. I haven't seen much in APA as I've only been in it a short time, but I've seen the LO make more mistakes than correct judgements with that power. On the other hand, their mistake usually becomes apparent within a month or so, and the player will be settled in to the proper s/l before long.

Tom_In_Cincy
01-13-2003, 11:08 PM
Tom,
When I first started playing in the APA league in the Cincy area in 1989, I was made a SL7 from the first nite.. the LO and I had matched up earlier and he knew my skill level.. he was a SL7 also and has still been unable to defeat me in local tournaments. I only lost one match that session and it was to a SL2 that made the 8 on the break and ran a table on me.

silverbullet
01-14-2003, 06:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr>I dont have a problem with going up but i would rather earn it and go up the regular way so am staying away from that guys apa night<hr /></blockquote>You probably don't need to avoid his night because of that. He said he could do it, he didn't say he would do it. And all LO's have that power, so you can't avoid it. I haven't seen much in APA as I've only been in it a short time, but I've seen the LO make more mistakes than correct judgements with that power. On the other hand, their mistake usually becomes apparent within a month or so, and the player will be settled in to the proper s/l before long. <hr /></blockquote>

Well,perhaps i will talk to him as I wanted to go tonight so that I have more opportunities to boost up my w/l %, at least to an sl3 as soon as i earn it ...to get to an sl4 will be awhil,though because i am pretty much in the middle of the pack of three. can beat about half of them and half of them can beat me. no twos beat me, i am the top sl2 in the league in my town.

bw

Wally_in_Cincy
01-14-2003, 09:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote qSHAFT:</font><hr> That exact situation happened to a friend of mine playing against the handicappers team a couple of months ago. He had the best game of his life and the next week he was ranked one grade below a master,..... <hr /></blockquote>

There is no way a guy on an opposing team should have that power. What a blatant conflict of interest. Some neutral third party should decide that. I assume you raised a stink about this?

qSHAFT
01-14-2003, 03:21 PM
We raised a stink all right...

They regurgetated the official line - "the handicappers decision is final".

I'd move onto some other league (since there is next to no hope of us placing in the top three quaters) but there are no others so I'm stuck.

Alfie
01-14-2003, 06:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote qSHAFT:</font><hr> I'd move onto some other league but there are no others so I'm stuck. <hr /></blockquote> Start your own.

IMO

01-14-2003, 10:26 PM
Maybe it was a local setting but I thought everyone started at SL3 (men) and SL2 (women) for the APA, unless of course you've played in that league before or the league op knows you from tournaments. After so many games into the season then your "real" starting handicapp was decided. I.E. I started at SL3 but after a few weeks was bumped to SL5.

01-15-2003, 07:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CoolieRewind:</font><hr> Maybe it was a local setting but I thought everyone started at SL3 (men) and SL2 (women) for the APA, unless of course you've played in that league before or the league op knows you from tournaments. After so many games into the season then your "real" starting handicapp was decided. I.E. I started at SL3 but after a few weeks was bumped to SL5. <hr /></blockquote>Men start out at SL4 and ladies at SL3, at least according to "official" APA standards. Local LO's may vary from this, but I don't know if they're really allowed to do so or not.

Click here for the APA rundown on their handicapping system. (http://www.poolplayers.com/equalizer.html)

On Edit: Upon further reading, according to that same page I linked to above:<blockquote><font class="small">Quote APA Web Site:</font><hr>2. HOW TO GET STARTED - Obviously, new players do not have a skill level established, so a standard starting method has been devised for new players. Gentlemen will play their first match as a SL4; ladies will play their first match as a SL3. A League Operator is authorized to assign special skill levels and lowest attainables to new players who are known highly skilled players or to players who have previously established skill levels in another format.<hr /></blockquote>So it appears LO's have authority to assign whatever initial SL they want. It indicates they can assign higher SL's, so I can only assume they could also assign lower SL's to starters. It probably doesn't matter much though because the next paragraph states that after your first APA match your official SL will be established.

David

Fred Agnir
01-15-2003, 08:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr> One of the league ops was tring to find 2s and 3s for his tues night 8 ball league. we are on the thurs one. we were talking about the apa system for going up based on w/l and innings. then he told me if he saw me play and thought i shouldnt be a two, he could just bump me up to whatever he thought i was based on how i played.<hr /></blockquote>
When's the last time you played league night? I'm curious because if you've already played since your last win a few weeks ago, and you're still an SL-2, then I'd be surprised.


Fred

silverbullet
01-15-2003, 11:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr> One of the league ops was tring to find 2s and 3s for his tues night 8 ball league. we are on the thurs one. we were talking about the apa system for going up based on w/l and innings. then he told me if he saw me play and thought i shouldnt be a two, he could just bump me up to whatever he thought i was based on how i played.<hr /></blockquote>
When's the last time you played league night? I'm curious because if you've already played since your last win a few weeks ago, and you're still an SL-2, then I'd be surprised.


Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Fred, I played three years ago and started as an sl2 this past session. From what i could remember, i had 40-50%w/l from three years ago. When I started last season,I had my head screwed on backwards lost some matches due to bad head space, won a few and of course lost some because the other player was better or was playing well on that particular night. i did play some higher sl players and lost to those, of course.
so my w/l % dropped to aroud 40% i am guessing. I was not able to play for about a month or so due to a change in job and also was sick and trying to work. during that time i did practice quite a bit so was shooting better when i played in the playoffs. i was ranked as an sl2 and beat t he four 2-3. when i cam back the next week for playoff i looked at the sheet and was still sl2. also wondered if wins in playoffs are counted in w/l percent. /

so i started on a new team last week and beat a sl2. i was still a two i guess because i was a two the last time i checked. so i am guessing i am close to 50% again...so just look at the sheet when i play each week..

to be honest, i hope i get to play all sl2s AND weak 3s until i go up because to me it isnt fair to the other players for me to be a 2.

bw
then i had to quit goi