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View Full Version : Need a piece of advice

Brent
01-14-2003, 05:41 PM
Hi all. I have been dealing with this problem for some time now. My question would be how to play on if the case was 9 bal and I needed to move the cue-ball to the other end. START(
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01-14-2003, 05:58 PM
Here is a solution but I do not know how practical it may be for you.

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Personally I draw the cueball back into the rail with low inside english and send the cueball off the end rail into the side rail where I was standing and spin it up table to the opposite side of the 9 ball. I will either scratch or get shape! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jimbo

01-14-2003, 07:28 PM
If youre feeling ridiculously lucky, you could try this!
START(
%Hr9J3%IC8O6%Pr9R3%Ur8C5%Vs0J2%Wn8Z8%Xr8R5%Ys1B6%Z r9B9%[g4D1
%\r5K4%]r5L0%^n3[3%eA0b2
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http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

Rod
01-14-2003, 08:21 PM
Since the o/b from the pocket, and the c/b to o/b distance is a little over a diamond it's a high percentage to make the ball and play position with low inside. You may not always get down table for an easy shot but you'll have a decent shot. If your able to get the c/b to the 5th diamond.

There is a OP shot to bank it back in the coner off the point. It works pretty good if you practice it, lower percentage though at speed.

Depends on who your playing but there is a couple of half a\$\$ed safes. Here's one, leave whitey frozed near the 9
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On this one the 8 ball stops near the rail by the green line and the c/b goes two rails trying to freeze it on the third by the 9 ball. The speed is not as critical because it kills the c/b comming off the 2nd cushion to a degree.
They don't have to like either one.
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Tom_In_Cincy
01-14-2003, 08:47 PM
There are two ways I would try to make this shot.. because the ob is within a diamond of the corner pocket and the cue ball is close to being within a diamond of the ob.

1st way with draw.. remember you have to have a solid stroke and make the compensation for the bottom left squirt on the cb.

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2nd way is with massive Follow and left english..

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Remember to NOT try to kill the cue ball, the spin will take it down table. I have also marked a position "A" to aim for starters.

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

Sid_Vicious
01-14-2003, 10:03 PM
The snap draw stroke with inside(right) english for the reverse off the long rail is your shot, especially since you have daylight between the OB and the short rail...sid

Scott Lee
01-15-2003, 03:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr>

1st way with draw.. remember you have to have a solid stroke and make the compensation for the bottom left squirt on the cb.

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<hr /></blockquote>

Tom...wouldn't that need to be low right (reverse) to get the CB to spin the direction of your diagram? Low left would die off of the first side rail hit. You hit the shot with low right, and aim slightly into the rail. This is a power draw shot, with reverse english.

Scott

Tom_In_Cincy
01-15-2003, 08:40 AM
Good catch Scott.. I always get this wrong.. I usually have to stand on the opposite side of the table to visualize the spin to get it down table.. and in this case its bottom right.. not left.. thanks for the correction..

SPetty
01-15-2003, 09:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> I usually have to stand on the opposite side of the table to visualize the spin to get it down table...<hr /></blockquote>hahaha - I can relate - although I usually stay on this side, I stand there pointing down swirling my finger in circles to figure it out... /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Fran Crimi
01-15-2003, 10:21 AM
Well, basically, you're screwed. I like your opponent from here. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

You're looking at low percentages all around, particularly in jamming the 8 with any kind of force and spin. I see three options that I'd probably choose from, depending on how I feel at the time.

One is to pocket the 8 and draw the cue back along the top rail to take a crack at the long rail bank on the 9. If you shoot it with topspin, the cb will stay down table and if you play the speed of the shot and miss the bank, you could leave the 9 along the side rail with a tough shot for your opponent. START(
%Ht3B9%IC7O4%Pr9S4%Wq0D9%XD3O2%]E1P0%^r4S4

)END That would be my least favorite choice.

The next option which is what I'd probably do, is to pocket the 8 and try to get the cb off the rail just a little without jamming the 8, and shoot a rail first shot at the 9 with extreme inside. If you miss the shot, the 9 will usually hit wide and land back in the middle of the rail and the cb will hit the left rail above the side pocket and float up table. START(
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The next option is the "Pat Fleming" shot. I learned this from Pat and it's been very useful over the years. Pocket the 8, draw the cb back to the center of the rail and shoot the 9 head-on so the cb double-kisses back. It's a great safe shot. The 9 stays in the same immediate area and the cb travels straight back up table. START(
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Notice, though, pocketing the 8 with any kind of extreme spin or speed is not one of my choices. IMO, that's jam-city and a lower percentage than shooting long at the 9.

Fran

Bob_in_Cincy
01-15-2003, 11:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> hahaha - I can relate - although I usually stay on this side, I stand there pointing down swirling my finger in circles to figure it out... /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I thought I was the only one who did that !! Thanks !! I sometimes have do that when I want to put english on the object ball coming off a rail. I have to think the shot backwards: "ok, I want the object ball to go this way, which mean it has to be spinning that way when it hits the rail, which means I gotta hit the cue ball HERE".

We have a running gag in my family that ends with the line: "I wish I were smarter". /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Bob_in_Cincy

Rod
01-15-2003, 12:01 PM
Drawing back at you the c/b goes left with right and right with left.Lol You just have to think backwards. Not a problem for me, I must think backwards! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Is that good? /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Come to think of it that might explain a lot of things, like getting lost. Recently on a drive to Mesa I got lost several times and a big time wrong turn on the way back. Maybe I should have driven backwards! LOL

Eric.
01-15-2003, 03:01 PM
I hafta agree with Fran on not jamming the shot. IMO, unless I could see daylight between the 8 and the rail(just a tiny bit), I wouldn't try to manufacture any angles to get up table. I also like the double kiss safe(picked it up from Neptune Joe) because it is very forgiving of the approach angle into the OB. You don't hafta be perfectly straight on the OB to get a good double kiss safety. On a different note- If the 9 is frozen to the rail, and less than a hlaf diamond away from the pocket, the same double kiss can be used to make the 9 in the corner

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Eric &gt;remembers sucker punches /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

TonyM
01-15-2003, 03:29 PM
It's hard to see from the diagram, but are the two balls frozen to the cushion?

If not quite, here is a way out shown to me by Gerry "the ghost" Watson:

I can't really diagram it on the WEI table because it is a 3 dimensional shot.

But here is the result:

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Jack up the cue to say a 45 degree angle. Hit down on the cue ball and aim for a little bit to the right of center of the eight ball (ie: aim for a slight left hand cut). The airborne cue ball will hit the eight ball full, so you will still make the ball. The cue ball will go airborne, straight up, and if hit right, will drop down onto the point of the right hand cushion, and be pushed down the table for a shot on the nine.

Alright, I admit, it isn't a "gimme". But with a few minutes practice, you can probably pull it off within a half dozen or so tries.

You don't need very much speed. You want the cue ball to go almost straight up in the air, and then drop down on the edge of the cushion.

The first time I saw it done my jaw dropped to the floor!

I demonstrate it sometimes to students as an example of lateral thinking and creativity.

If the balls are frozen, you can get the cue ball down table with draw inside english by aiming to hit slightly rail first. Mike Massey uses this shot and can actually get all around the table. But your shot would be like this:

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%ar6J9
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Good luck!

Tony
-certainly prefer your opponents odds in this situation!

Rod
01-15-2003, 03:53 PM
I thought both balls were frozen. The jump type shot is a good one with practice. That comes up at times in 14-1, even though there is a little angle there is not enough force plus the c/b gets stuck in the back of the rack. A slight difference in angle but jump the c/b off the cushion in the middle of the rack. Got to know your stroke and the table. It definately works in either situation.
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Brent
01-15-2003, 04:24 PM
OK thnx everyone. Il try it next thing tomorrow.

Bre&amp;#324;t

caedos
01-15-2003, 10:19 PM
Since we're dealing in low percentages...

1) If the 8 is NOT frozen to the rail you can roll up on it and wedge it between the cue ball and rail for a safety.

2) Whether or not the 8 is frozen you can shoot about 1/4 of a ball left of center (or less) to make it miss the pocket and roll the cue ball up for the safety. The opponent may get to bank, or maybe not. It's close and nasty either way. The return to you may look alot like the original shot but with the cue ball on the other end of the table.

3) This shot is best if neither ball is frozen (close is okay), and on a table with commercial (non-shimmed) pockets. Elevate between 30 and 50 degrees (you practice, you pick), put maximum left sidespin on the cue ball (no top or bottom), and fire away. The typical curve of the masse is greatly reduced by the speed of the shot and the short distance to the object ball. At contact, almost all of your linear energy goes away and the lateral rotation created by elevated left sidespin will carry the cue ball down table to shoot the nine. It's a fun shot, and you can learn to put follow and draw into the equation as you go (just beware of pockets and side-pocket 'nipples'/'tits'/'nodules'/'points'/'corners'/'protruberances' changing your outcome)

Oz

L.S. Dennis
01-17-2003, 02:22 AM
As I recall, in the motion picture "The Hustler" there was a scene in which that same question (need some advice?")was asked to Charlie Eddie's road partner and his response was " How Much Will It Cost?"

Brent
01-17-2003, 05:33 AM
Deem that Hustler movie. Everything was great till they started to make the sloppy mistakes. And whut really pissed me off was that in the final showdown (when they played the race to 9) they changed the balls a few times. At one point u can see them playing with Centennials and then the other cheaper Bruinswicks. Man that sucked.

Ken
01-17-2003, 07:56 AM
How about that silly masse shot where you make two hangers in the corner pocket with one shot. They used that in two seperate straight pool games. As if that isn't an easy two ball run.

Also on one break shot they clearly cut the film as the cue ball is speeding toward the corner pocket for a certain scratch.

That movie left a lot to be desired but it's about all we got. That and the Color of Money which could have used a few more pool scenes.
KenCT

L.S. Dennis
01-17-2003, 10:45 AM
Regarding "The Hustler" and "The Color Of Money" yes it is all we've got for the moment. But don't despair the new movie "Pool Hall Junkies" is about ready to be released. In fact it's all ready been shown here in California at a late night sneak preveiw at one of the billiard rooms which will remain nameless.

The Hustler on balance was pretty good, in fact just about every movie critic has given a 4-star rating. The Color of Money was clearly not as good but better than nothing. It's ironic that Newman got that award for the Color instead of the Hustler! Go figure