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Gayle in MD
03-13-2002, 05:15 PM
Dear Friends,
There have been recent posts regarding how to care for Simonis Cloth, (1-800-simonis) which were posted in good faith by other CCBers. I had been using my Dirt Devil Ultra, with the revolving brushes, but was concerned about it, as I could see some directional impressions on the cloth as I used it. Today I decided to call Simonis and ask them what they recommend, and was told that I should not use any vac with stronger than 3 HP, and also not to use the revolving brush, as any revolving action would pull and loosen the cloth. Also, the advice was not to use ANY cleaner or household products, or stain guard sprays on the cloth, but only an occasional wipe with a VERY damp rolled towel. Also, NEVER use a regular vac as the HP is too strong and also would pull and loosen the cloth. Any liquid spills naturally should be removed immediately with a soft cloth. Simonis will mail or fax their care instructions per your request, (See Toll Free Number Above)
Regards to all and happy shooting!
Gayle in Md

JimS
03-13-2002, 07:08 PM
My opinion, while not expert by any means, does differ with the experts at Simonis and I think they are being overly cautious because they have to be because of liability issues.

I've always vacumed my table and in three years that I've had a home table there has ever been a problem with loose cloth. I vacumn daily.

For the 6 months that I've had my Diamond I've been using the Dirt Devil Ultra with the brushes. The brushes are so soft I'd not be afraid to use them on anything I can think of (was going to say I'd not be afraid to use it on a baby's butt but that seemed like a really dumb analogy!). Of course there are some directional marks, this will occur with the traditional brush or a regular vacumn.

Six months of no problems is enough for me to continue to take the chance as the cloth is extremely clean using the Dirt Devil and this results in using the wet towel much less frequently. I've only had to use the wet towel twice in six months of daily use and it's my contention, admittedly devoid of bothersome facts, that if any of these cleaning methods were going to cause a problem it would be using a wet towel.

I contacted Simonis a couple of years ago and was told the same things as you Gayle. I've not followed their advice because it seemed overly cautious to me and I still maintain that attitude. Guess I'll learn the hard way. But thanks Gayle for trying to help me see the error of my ways. It's just that I NEVER listen to advice. You can always tell a Swede....you just can't tell'm much. Or in other words: Phhtttttt! (the sound made by a protruding tounge vibrating quickly and perhaps wetly)

Mikey
03-13-2002, 08:16 PM
Hi Gayle, I've used the methods suggested by Simonis for 17 yr.s with 3 different tables and have had no problems. ---Mikey

Gayle in MD
03-13-2002, 08:24 PM
Hi Jim, and hope you are doing well. Well to tell you the truth, I'm not sure what to do. I've heard so many others, not only you, swear by the dirt devil method, and I am a cleaning nut, but also a worry wart, as you know, LOL. I had hoped my post would generate some responses, and that we might hear from some cloth experts on the subject. You are probably right though, that Simonis doesn't want to go out on a limb and encourage people to do anything that might come back to haunt them later on. Anyway, I hope we will hear from other's who have had longer experience on the various cleaning methods. Thanks for the response, and take care.
Love to you and yours
Gayle in Md

JimS
03-13-2002, 08:34 PM
Mikey,
I'm confused. What methods does Simonis actually recommend? Don't vac? Use a brush and a damp cloth? What, exactly, do you do? Thanks for the help.

Rip
03-13-2002, 09:00 PM
I'm not a Simonis expert but I'll share my experience. I encouraged my wife to purchase the Oreck upright vac as they include a very high powered canister style cleaner for "free" that I thought would be perfect for grooming the Simonis. The Oreck is so powerful that it lifts the tightly stretched 860 off the table unless I use the round brush attachment that has 2 inch bristles. I then purchased one of those turbo mini vacs, The Shark vac, for $30. It does a great job and even gets under the rails with no effort. Last week my table was moved and I was very curious to see what would be on the slate when they peeled off the cloth. There was not a trace of chalk! I play 2 or 3 hours a day and use lots of chalk so I was very surprised to see clean slate. I vacuum once a week and wipe the cloth with a damp cloth once a week...okay, sometimes every two weeks. Also, my 860 looks as good as new. I believe Houston Dan mentioned the Dirt Devil Ultra a while back and I picked one up last week. It seems to work well with little effort. I'll soon have as many vacuums as I do cue sticks! Regards, Rip~~wishes the local ph would use a vac once in a while!

JimS
03-13-2002, 09:21 PM
Seems like I remember you posting quite a while back that you were building a new house with a purpose-built billiard room. Correct? Moving in?

My slate popped and after 4 months of 2 or 3 hours a day every day the slate was also clean. Used the Dirt Devil Ultra daily.

03-13-2002, 11:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rip:</font><hr> I believe Houston Dan mentioned the Dirt Devil Ultra a while back and I picked one up last week. It seems to work well with little effort. I'll soon have as many vacuums as I do cue sticks! Regards, Rip~~wishes the local ph would use a vac once in a while! <hr></blockquote>

well, ok, it's confession time. i've had my simonis 860 for a little over a year and i pretty much do exactly everything they say not to do. not only do i use the dirt devil 'platinum' with the revolving brushes but after that i take the super sucking little crevace tool and do the whole table with that. it will not lift the cloth because i harrassed the heck out of the guys when they were dressing the table to make it tight. really tight. on most commercial tables with simonis, i can put the palm of my hand on the cloth and get at least a little bit of give. not on mine. not even after a year of play and vacuuming.

now comes the worst (?!) part; after all that, i take a big soft towel, fold it, spray the heck out of the face with windex and rub the cloth with that. every few strokes i refold for a new clean spot and hit it some more. comes out tight as can be with no water marks and is ready to play immediately. also, the whole process speeds the table back up. some aramith cleaner for the balls (but not the cue ball. the wax leaves it too slippery and it miscues on rediculous english. dishsoap for that.) and the worlds best small pool hall is back in business.

someone suggested clear water for the cloth, even soaking it down to where it took hours to dry but i'm not much for that idea. all non-distilled water has minerals which will 'wick' up to the tops of the fibers and leave water marks at some drying edges.

dan

cheesemouse
03-13-2002, 11:40 PM
houstondan,
The cloth on my B/Anniverary has got to be six years old and it has had every asinine thing I can dream up done to it including spray starch and ironing. It is threadbare and I plan on doing 860 this time but then I said that two years ago. This cloth is indestuctible, it has a life of its own and it is starting to scare me. When I read your post I started to laugh hysterically(good thing I live alone)as the windex thing is a new one and will be tried just as you discribed; maybe I'll get another year out of this scary stuff. LMAO!!!!

03-14-2002, 12:01 AM
cheeze...just remember that you want to use a towel that you can throw away or at least dedicate to this purpose only. i think the only thing that can get master blue chalk out of a cloth towel is fire and that sorta defeats the purpose.

scratch all that...you mentioned you live alone so you don't have anyone to explain how stupid it is to ruin towels, do you? fine...do what you want. screw the linens.

dan

JimS
03-14-2002, 12:43 AM
Ya got that right! Turned several white towels blue. Amazing how much chalk dust builds up in the table cloth.

Rip
03-14-2002, 01:24 AM
That's right JimS, we moved in two weeks ago to the new house. Boxes are stacked in the garage from floor to ceiling and I can't find anything but my cue sticks and vacs! It would be nice if I could find a pair of shoes but what the heck--I can shoot barefooted! Rip

03-14-2002, 01:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: JimS:</font><hr> Ya got that right! Turned several white towels blue. Amazing how much chalk dust builds up in the table cloth. <hr></blockquote>

exactly, and it's that chalk that slows the ball down and sometimes makes it roll funny. the bluer the cloth gets, the better and i get more with windex than plain water.

dan

03-14-2002, 01:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rip:</font><hr>be nice if I could find a pair of shoes but what the heck--I can shoot barefooted! Rip <hr></blockquote>

shoot, you just stole one of my guranteed ways to change your luck (like wearing the garters in 'bull durahm') devices. shuckin'shoos and shooting with your toes grabbin the floor is a sure fire way to change things.

dan...try it!

03-14-2002, 08:05 AM
I brush, vacuum with canister hose, and wipe down with damp/wet towel. Recently had cloth changed, and the tech commented on how clean the table was under the cloth. Wiping the cloth down seems to accomplish two purposes--aesthetically, removes any marks from balls; and the damping seems to produce some shrinkage, which tightens the cloth. With regard to the vacuum, I find that if I keep the vacuum head on the cloth, I don't have to worry about pulling the cloth off the table. The Simonis seems to respond very well to this weekly care.

JimS
03-14-2002, 09:14 AM
Congrats Rip!! And...it sounds like you have your priorities in order.

03-14-2002, 09:17 AM
Having cleaned Simonis cloth on a twelve room table for 3 1/2 years I found a few items of importance that will help. I highly recommend to wet rag all tables in high usage every 45 days. This is also the time I wipe out all pocket interiors and top rails while I have a damp rag. Use a lint free rag, otherwise you will have to re vac the table. If a brittle putty is used at the slate seams a strong vac will eventually loosen up the mortar. I always try and lightly vac the seams, using a compact/rainbow/can type vac with a crevice tool and horse hair floor tool brush heads. If I find a dark stain that I cannot remove I soak it, let it dry and tomorrow will use the metal part of the vac hose to suck up the dried up root beer/food etc. . I try and not push to hard downward on the cloth otherwise it makes it "roll" and loosens up quicker. You can also tell if the table mechanic did a tight pull or not on the install and comment to him on next times service or have hime come back and re pull it. BF

Gayle in MD
03-14-2002, 10:04 AM
Thanks to you and all others for contributing to my post. I am presuming that you meant to say that you are caring for a twelve table room, and I wondered what your thoughts might be regarding the Dirt Devil, using the revolving brush. Do you feel that it is safe?
Thanking you in advance, and best wishes
Gayle in Md

03-14-2002, 12:46 PM
Gayle, I don't see the real need to add extra/wear of the beater bar and you have a non-directional cloth/no nap. Your goal is to remove the chalk and dirt/and fluff the material somewhat (the cloth does get a shiny look like polyester pants of the 60s), I just think the added beating of the vac (thats for carpet) is not helping the playing surface. BF Yes it was a 12 table room.

03-14-2002, 01:37 PM
Simonis sent me this advice : <blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Simonis Cloth is very easy to maintain. Brush only with a soft
billiard brush, only use a low hsp.vac, (3hsp or less) and only clean
stains/spills with water. always try to get spills up right away so
the
cloth will not get stained.<hr></blockquote>

That said, I followed the Dirt Devil advice and picked up the "Platinum Force" model about a month ago. In the store I compared the "Ultra" to the "Platinum Force" and noted several things:
1. Platinum has 6 Amps versus 4 amps for the Ultra, this made me want the "Ultra," HOWEVER:
2. The Platinum Force has softer bristles and the whole revolving brush does not push into the surface nearly as much as the "Ultra."

So, I went with the Dirt Devil Platinum Force going on the theory that I would be easier on the cloth. So far I've been very pleased, with no directional marks or otherwise. I also wipe down the cloth once or twice a week with a very damp lint-free towel. This cleans any ball marks and tends to tighten up the Simonis nicely. So far the cloth looks brand new.

Tim

TomBrooklyn
03-14-2002, 02:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bigfoot:</font><hr> If I find a dark stain that I cannot remove I soak it, let it dry and tomorrow will use the metal part of the vac hose to suck up the dried up root beer/food etc. <hr></blockquote>How about K2 spot remover on food and beverage stains? I've used it successfully on miscellaneous fabrics. I wonder if it would be good for pool cloth?

03-14-2002, 08:31 PM
Since I cleaned the room tables EVERY day, I found it easier to wet the debris, let it dry, then suck up the crusty spot, stains is a different operation, generally its best to not try, they become part of the enviornment. BF

Troy
03-14-2002, 10:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: houstondan:</font><hr>exactly, and it's that chalk that slows the ball down and sometimes makes it roll funny. the bluer the cloth gets, the better and i get more with windex than plain water.
dan <hr></blockquote>

I like "Simple Green" diluted with 2 parts water. Something about the amonia in Windex is what I don't like. JMO... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Troy