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Paul_Mon
01-16-2003, 05:35 AM
Can a piece of chalk (or coin, etc.) be used to assist in aiming in the following manner. Take a piece of chalk and position it on the rail to use as an aiming reference point. Address the cue ball and aim at the chalk. Now look past the chalk and pick up a new reference point on the wall or whatever. Go back and remove the chalk and proceed to shoot the shot.

If this sounds too far fetched it actually happened to me yesterday. IMO there is nothing illegal or unethical about this situation.

Paul Mon

01-16-2003, 07:37 AM
Well, from my experience and study, using any type of marker as an aiming aid that is not native to the table (i.e. a diamond) is frowned upon by most, and considered a flagrant cheat by many, but that is usually referencing shooting at the chalk while it still sits on the rail.

Putting chalk on the rail before the shot, just to pick out a reference point on the wall beyond it, and then removing it before the shot seems like a bit of a gray area to me (it also seems a bit amateurish and a sure sign of a weak player). I wouldn't do it, and would probably frown on my opponent doing it but wouldn't make a big issue unless big money or a tournament was on the line. It's arguably the same thing, using an aiming device not native to the table, but since it's removed before the shot I'm not sure that it's any different than using your cue to lay out the shot (the cue not exactly being native to the table). And we all know that most everyone, even the pros, use their cues to establish aiming points all the time.

Fran, Scott, Tom, Rod, et al -- what say ye?

David

Paul_Mon
01-16-2003, 07:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmorris68:</font><hr> Well, from my experience and study, using any type of marker as an aiming aid that is not native to the table (i.e. a diamond) is frowned upon by most, and considered a flagrant cheat by many, but that is usually referencing shooting at the chalk while it still sits on the rail.

Putting chalk on the rail before the shot, just to pick out a reference point on the wall beyond it, and then removing it before the shot seems like a bit of a gray area to me (it also seems a bit amateurish and a sure sign of a weak player). I wouldn't do it, and would probably frown on my opponent doing it but wouldn't make a big issue unless big money or a tournament was on the line. It's arguably the same thing, using an aiming device not native to the table, but since it's removed before the shot I'm not sure that it's any different than using your cue to lay out the shot (the cue not exactly being native to the table). And we all know that most everyone, even the pros, use their cues to establish aiming points all the time.

Fran, Scott, Tom, Rod, et al -- what say ye?

David <hr /></blockquote>

David, The shot below is the example of where the chalk (A) was temporarily used to determine a aiming point.

Paul

START(
%Hr2L0%ID5M1%Pq8T4%Qs8K4%UK4G9%Vr0L8%Wr9D4%Xr1K1%b r7M4%cs5O5
%dr1S7
)END

Fred Agnir
01-16-2003, 08:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paul_Mon:</font><hr> Can a piece of chalk (or coin, etc.) be used to assist in aiming in the following manner. Take a piece of chalk and position it on the rail to use as an aiming reference point. Address the cue ball and aim at the chalk. Now look past the chalk and pick up a new reference point on the wall or whatever. Go back and remove the chalk and proceed to shoot the shot.

If this sounds too far fetched it actually happened to me yesterday. IMO there is nothing illegal or unethical about this situation.

Paul Mon <hr /></blockquote>

3.43 ILLEGAL MARKING
If a player intentionally marks the table in any way (including the placement of chalk) to assist in executing the shot, it is a foul.

Fred

Paul_Mon
01-16-2003, 08:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>

3.43 ILLEGAL MARKING
If a player intentionally marks the table in any way (including the placement of chalk) to assist in executing the shot, it is a foul.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Fred. I suppose that covers it. But players routinely "place" their cues on the table to mark a spot or area. Suppose I leaned my cue on the rail?

01-16-2003, 09:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmorris68:</font><hr> I'm not sure that it's any different than using your cue to lay out the shot (the cue not exactly being native to the table). And we all know that most everyone, even the pros, use their cues to establish aiming points all the time.

..............................




as to using the stick, bca 3.42 clearly says it's ok to use the cue stick and only the cue stick, as "an aid to aligning a shot, as long as the cue is held by the hand". set the cue on the table, to aim, and it is a foul and unsportsmanlike conduct.

dan

Alfie
01-16-2003, 09:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paul_Mon:</font><hr> Suppose I leaned my cue on the rail? <hr /></blockquote> Use the ghost chalk method, IMO.

Paul_Mon
01-16-2003, 09:16 AM
Thanks Dan. Between you and Fred I now know whats legal and illegal.

regards..........Paul

Eric.
01-16-2003, 09:19 AM
My opinion, if someone blatently places a piece of chalk, uses it to openly sight a point of aim, then shoots, has fouled.

Now comes the gray area-what if someone takes a walk around the table, chalking their stick, then casually places the chalk at the edge or limit of their position zone for the shot(I know NOBODY does this /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) is this an enforcable foul?

Eric &gt;the otherside of the coin

9 Ball Girl
01-16-2003, 09:20 AM
I think that placing the chalk on the rail to assist in shooting is allowed in the APA. At least that's what I was told when my opponent's coach placed the chalk on the rail. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
01-16-2003, 10:17 AM
Paul,

Fred and HustonDan are correct.. I avoid any problems with players that try to use this by just walking up to the table and using the chalk and placing it somewhere else prior to his shot.

Like its been said.. it amatruish.. and if a question arises I just tell them the rules. Its still a learning process for all of us.