PDA

View Full Version : question and opinion



SRpool
01-18-2003, 11:26 PM
i have a question out of curiousity. why do you think the players that come from europe and asia tend to play so much better than players in the united states?

my personal opinon is because they have played in more championships and possibly the cost of moving here and trying to make it. you have to be prepared to be the best.

what are your opinions

Chris Cass
01-18-2003, 11:34 PM
I don't think they do anymore than anyone playing somewhere in a different hall. It's all about focus and it seems that when you go to a tourney or a new hall you sometimes stay more focused for longer periods of time. There is preparation and unless you don't feel your ready to compete then, you wouldn't get out there and try to begin with. IMO It's like the person who comes across states to play a tourney. He or she didn't come there to mess around. They came to play.

Regards,

C.C.

eg8r
01-19-2003, 12:09 AM
I definitely agree with Chris. I would like to add, that I feel most Americans are impatient and few have the desire/focus to train and study the task at hand. It is quite easy to see, Americans are falling further and further behind the curve intellectually. Do I think students from other countries are inherently "smarter" than Americans, NO, but I believe their desire and focus on school work is a few steps ahead of the Americans. I don't doubt for a second that the same can be said for pool. I don't think the foreign players are gifted or any more talented/skilled and play the game better, I just think their desire/focus is more in tune to getting better. I have met quite a few players that have the ability to step it up and play/compete with the pros but they don't seem to have that "fire" to do so. Much easier just taking the well beaten path instead of forging ahead and putting in the time needed to further their skills.

eg8r <Wished I practiced more...LOL

Rod
01-19-2003, 02:32 AM
Hi Sarah,
Good question. I don't think they have any advantage especially the men. Having said that if there is an advantage it is on the womens side. Allison and Karen are both excellent examples of good technique. It's taught and learned then it is self taught and learned through practice and competition. Allison has high standards, simply making a ball with ok position is not in her vocabulary. From everything I've read technique is her prime concern, as it should be. Both of them raised the bar and the other women are playing catch up. They are very dedicated to making the perfect delivery every time. For anyone wanting to play at the top ok simply is not good enough. We all make good shots and get ok position when we know it should have been better. Those little mistakes can end up at the expense of poor position and/or a missed ball. At the top level a mistake or two can or will cost a loss of match. My answer is obviously technique when there is a difference in ability. My asumption is based on any of them having good fundamentals and a straight stroke. Unlike the TV match and the "eventual" winner Monica Webb. JMO

snipershot
01-19-2003, 02:54 AM
IMO it is very simple, pool in Asia and Europe and many other countries is so much bigger than in America that these foregn players are more experienced than the American players, they have greater knowledge and skill and it shows on the table.

Chris Cass
01-19-2003, 03:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Unlike the TV match and the "eventual" winner Monica Webb. JMO

<hr /></blockquote>

Hi Rod,

You struck a nerve there buddy. I'm still upset with not so much the play but the attitude and total disrespect for the game displayed by one of my all time favorites, Laurie Jon Jones. Her interveiw was totally disrespectful IMO. The girl has game and although she did well. She also messed up too.

I don't care if a player misses a easy shot, everyone does. Being relaxed is a good thing too. When she said she went shopping and just been having a vacation type deal and out to have some fun with friends, no practice and then said she'd think about hiring them to come along every tourney was too much. The girls got game and when she missed the straight in shot and let the hard working respectful Monica get ahead. I thought good for Laurie. Just have fun girl. I think she embarrassed herself and hope, Sammy gives her $hit about it too. JMHO

Regards,

C.C.~~do you think I take the game too seriously? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Karatemom
01-19-2003, 09:12 AM
Being prepared are the key words. It has been known for a long time, that countries like Germany, Austria, China, Japan, India, have a very strict, rigid discipline. It's not that they're any better than we are, they just work much harder at it. That's the way they were brought up. They've got the discipline and the opportunities to play billiards, more so than we do.

JMO,

Heide

Popcorn
01-19-2003, 10:29 AM
Yours is the correct answer. I have played in Europe quite a bit and they are more disciplined and work hard toward improvement. There is no other answer. When you see them doing it, you know. Every room over there has a dozen kids who want to be a champion. The room where I go here, I don't think has any potential players at all. It is even encouraged, rooms have special rates for single player practice. I even played in places where there was no charge to play by yourself. You of course you had to give up the table to two or more players. If I had a room now I would create a single player rate to encourage young players. Pool may in fact be too expensive in the U.S. for many young players to put in the time to learn the game. U.S. poolroom owners don't care about the future of the game, just the bottom line.

Eric.
01-20-2003, 09:54 AM
K-Mom,

Just like Popcorn said, you are 101% right. I also agree it is all about discipline and work ethic. Simply put, they do it longer, harder and more intense. I grew up the son of immigrants from one of those countries listed and that was how it was hammered into me. Everything from homewrok, to sports, to even putting my clothes away, there was a "right way" to do it. Now as a disclaimer, I don't want to sound Anti-USA, just making an observation.

Eric

Wally_in_Cincy
01-20-2003, 10:53 AM
If you're talking about the men, I don't think the Europeans or Asians are necessarily better than the Americans, With Efren Reyes and F. Bustamante being the notable exceptions. The Phillipines produces pool players the way the Dominican Republic produces baseball players. On a per capita basis you may be correct in the case of the Phillipines.

As far as the women are concerned Allison Fisher is obviously way ahead of any Americans, but she will go down in history as one of the best female players ever.

Karen Corr apparently has a tremendous desire and work ethic to go with her natural ability. Plus she was the first to figure out the Sardo rack and she came on the scene when Allison was at a low point.

Besides those two I don't see the Europeans as any better than the Americans.

JMO

Fran Crimi
01-20-2003, 11:17 AM
I haven't seen any statistics that prove that the men from other countries play so much better than the U.S. players. 'So much better' means heads and shoulders above the rest and I don't see that to be true.

One match or one tournament doesn't really prove that one player is far superior to another. It just proves that one player did better on that day than the other player. These guys go back and forth with each other all the time.

But for the women, yes it seems that the top players from other countries do play better than U.S. women at this time. But if you pool together all the women players from all the countries and have them compete, you may see different results. You may not, but there's no way of knowing for sure.

Fran

Fred Agnir
01-20-2003, 12:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SRpool:</font><hr> i have a question out of curiousity. why do you think the players that come from europe and asia tend to play so much better than players in the united states?
<hr /></blockquote>
I think you're comparing those from Europe and Asia that come to the States vs. everyone in the States. Obviously if the particular individual sucked, he wouldn't be traveling to the U.S. Only the cream of the crop from the other countries are who you see in the States. So, the short answer is, I don't see a remarkable difference.

If you want to see overall how good Europeans or Asians play as a whole, go to Europe or Asia. You'll see just as many crappy players there as you see here.

Fred &lt;~~~ crappy player

01-20-2003, 03:55 PM
I can't comment about the whole of Europe, but certainly for Alison and Karen their domination at the top of the game has been enabled from learning to play snooker in the UK. Snooker is played on 12ft tables, where the player is required to shoot into smaller pockets that provide absolutely no room for error, especially down the rail.

Alison is the only lady to have broken into the top 200 of the mens tour (as far as I know), and was a supreme shot maker before she even saw a 9-ball pool table. The switch to a 9 foot table with bigger pockets was a straightfoward one for her, and similarly for Karen. I feel qualified to state this given that I have played a good amateur level of snooker, and since relocating to the US 2 years ago have switched my attention to 9-ball. Most of my opponents declare me a "straight shooter", and I make seemingly difficult shots look routine (on a good day!).

IMO Alison and Karen's dominance can be linked to these snooker roots. However, snooker is not popular on continental Europe, so this argument does not hold weight when considering, say, why Germany produces class players.

One final point: this route is unlikely to be one that top snooker players from the men's tour will take. Alison and Karen seemingly chose to play 9-ball as women's professional snooker does not carry the tournament pay outs of women's 9-ball. In contrast, the men's snooker circuit carries much higher purses, with the winner of major events commonly receiving $50,000+. The likes of Stephen Hendry and Ronnie O'Sullivan would probably dominate the men's 9-ball game if they put their minds to it, but they have no financial incentive. (Evidence of this argument can be seen from Steve Davis, arguably the greatest snooker player of all time, who spurodically plays in 9-ball events and regularly beats world-class 9-ball opponents!) /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jon from MN
01-20-2003, 05:00 PM
Eferen says the reason they play better is that instead of like americans playing 8 hours a day 5 days a week. they play 12 to 15 hours a day 365 days a year even on Christmas. Now thats dedicated! Jon [plays 3 hours a week] from mn

SpiderMan
01-20-2003, 05:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SRpool:</font><hr> i have a question out of curiousity. why do you think the players that come from europe and asia tend to play so much better than players in the united states?

my personal opinon is because they have played in more championships and possibly the cost of moving here and trying to make it. you have to be prepared to be the best.

what are your opinions <hr /></blockquote>

I'm not sure they play any better. If you took the top 500 players from the US and the top 500 players from anywhere else, do you think the foreign players would be better?

If you only go by the most visible players here in the US, what may be happening is that you are comparing all the US players with only the "cream of the crop" from somewhere else. Those are the ones making the trip.

SpiderMan

Vagabond
01-20-2003, 06:51 PM
Howdy chris,
May be lori was nervous about the matches and if she stayed at the venue she would become more nervous.To compensate that ( diversionary strategy)she might have gone shopping.She does respect the game.She is all right.Cheers
vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
01-23-2003, 10:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SRpool:</font><hr> i have a question out of curiousity. why do you think the players that come from europe and asia tend to play so much better than players in the united states?

my personal opinon is because they have played in more championships and possibly the cost of moving here and trying to make it. you have to be prepared to be the best.

what are your opinions <hr /></blockquote>

Sarah,

Maybe you have a point. Last night I was watching the matches from Valley Forge 2000 (Karen Corr's first WPBA win). Robin Dodson was doing the color. After KC made a great shot Dodson says (refering to Allison and Karen) "Wow these girls are good. They must set up these shots and shoot them over and over....I just don't have the desire..."

OTOH Jeanette Lee once wrote that if you're having trouble with a shot you should shoot it 350 times. Doubt that she does that anymore.

Wally~~sets shots up over and over