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View Full Version : Violence in America and the violent side of pool



Ralph S.
01-20-2003, 11:49 PM
Hello to all that read this post. I want to start by summarizing something that happened in my hometown over the weekend. This past weekend a popular pool hall hosted a large tournament. The tournament was Mickey and Billy's midwest 8ball classic. There has never been any problems what so ever until this weekend. According to the police department and the local papers 2 people were shot after they left the establishment at closing time. Of the 2 people, 1 was dead at the scene and the other critacally wounded. The FWPD would not release any other info about the shootings due to it being an ongoing murder investigation. My question or staement that I am making is what the hell is wrong with people these days. The police have not determined if the shootings had anything to do with the tourney inside the hall or whether they were random or what. Also, some posted not too very long ago about the pool hall owner gunned down in Florida. This goes along with the usual fights and arguements that seem to happen more frequently than they did years ago. I am referring to the country as a whole not just an individual city. Even if this shooting is not pool related it does wind up looking that way due to the location of the shooting. This is just another serious blow to the credibility of this great game.
Ralph S. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Rod
01-21-2003, 12:50 AM
Yes it sure is Ralph and you can bet some people will think twice before going in there again. That's sad indeed.

01-21-2003, 01:32 AM
Ralph.. Its not just America, the whole world is going crazy. I'm afraid I dont like to play pool comps anymore, sick of being harassed by drunks, its just to damned violent. Thats why i cant wait for www.cashpoolcomps.com (http://www.cashpoolcomps.com) to officially start, play real comps from the comforts of your own home.

Ralph S.
01-21-2003, 01:45 AM
I unnderstand what you want to do Stevie, but one shouldnt be relegated to sitting at home and playing pool on the computer. Real pool is played in the pool halls. JMHO.
Ralph S.

nAz
01-21-2003, 02:07 AM
I always thought these thing happen a lot more in the err olden days except you just didnt here about it much cause there was'nt so much media coverage or internet to spread the news. like i would never have heard about your local shooting if i didnt read this post /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
i have not seen or heard of much violence happing in any PH around here, and when i do hear or see it most of it is done by the yahoo ball banger not regular players.

01-21-2003, 02:20 AM
Ralph.. I understand what you are saying, but cashpoolcomps.com looks good to me and its something different, its even got a chat club a forum what more could you want dude /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Im not saying im barred from pool halls for life, just looks exciting to me being able to play real comps on the net. dont tell me you wouldn't give it a go when it opens.

Vapros
01-21-2003, 05:28 AM
I have no idea, of course, what might be behind the incident you mentioned, but I might point out that there is an amazing number of people in some pool rooms carrying large bundles of cash. It's not uncommon to see $5,000 to $30,000 in some pockets - and not just one or two, either. A couple of guys with shotguns could take off more than $100 grand by picking the right night in the right rooms. That's pretty spooky. Big bundles of C notes in several pockets on one man.

It's surprising there aren't more robberies in pool rooms, or in the parking lots of pool rooms. That could be one explanation. Don't stick up a 7-11 for $200. Hit one of the stake horses and get rich. It makes it dangerous for everybody in the joint.

One proprietor in my area had armed security men on hand, several of 'em, during a five month period when a lot of players and backers were in town. I believe that was the exception.

Can they gamble with MasterCard or Visa? I guess not.

TomBrooklyn
01-21-2003, 09:08 AM
A guy was shot and killed coming out of HOF a few years back I think. The victim was the cousin of an aquaintance of mine. The way I heard it he had beat up some Chinese kid and him and some buddies came back and shot him as he left the PH. I'm not sure where the original fight had taken place. Thats one of the excellent reasons to stay out of street fights. Some guys will just come back, hide in the shadows, and shoot you. Sad, but true. =TB

Wally_in_Cincy
01-21-2003, 09:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote steviewonder1976:</font><hr> Ralph.. Its not just America, the whole world is going crazy. I'm afraid I dont like to play pool comps anymore, sick of being harassed by drunks, its just to damned violent. Thats why i cant wait for www.cashpoolcomps.com (http://www.cashpoolcomps.com) to officially start, play real comps from the comforts of your own home. <hr /></blockquote>

Gosh Stevie you're right. I've now decided to sit in front of my computer rather than venture out into the big scary world.

Since I won't be working anymore everyone please visit www.send.WallyintheNatti.some.cash.com (http://www.send.WallyintheNatti.some.cash.com) Thank you

Ralph S.
01-21-2003, 10:22 AM
I know what you mean about all the cash there Vapros. You do have a valid point.
Ralph S.

HOWARD
01-21-2003, 12:48 PM
Wally,

You sarcastic dog. I love it.

Howard

01-21-2003, 07:49 PM
"Wally", Until youv'e been a victim of crime you can't understand the feeling some people get. Yes some people use computers for an escape to the real world, not just from violence but other things too, some are handicapped and are harassed for not fitting to well in society, so don't [censored] talk about sitting in front of a computer. [censored]

qSHAFT
01-21-2003, 08:29 PM
Hi Stevie,

You should see the Mike Moore documentary - "bowling for columbine" and then you might change you mind about it being the whole world going crazy and not just America.

I also wonder if you have any alterior motive for taking your stance, perhaps you can drum up more business for www.cashpoolcomps.com (http://www.cashpoolcomps.com) if you promote the world as a crazy place.

I also notice that the people at www.cashpoolcomps.com (http://www.cashpoolcomps.com) will be taking 15.5% of the tournament entry fees (based on their $20 format option). That certainly sounds like a lucrative deal to me - hope your getting kickbacks!

Tom_In_Cincy
01-21-2003, 08:30 PM
Check some of these stories out..

http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=1093243&amp;nav=1ugFDUi9

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-stab0119,0,7547065.story?coll=ny-linews-headlines

Look at the bottom of this page.. for the story..
http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan03/111562.asp

And here is one about Barry Berhman's troubles in VA..
http://www.pilotonline.com/breaking/br0108beh.html

NH_Steve
01-21-2003, 08:46 PM
Ralph, I think you are going way overboard in associating violence with pool rooms. For every fight/murder in or near a pool room there are a thousand in or near a barroom -- and they are clearly alcohol influenced. That must be why there is so much bad press about alcohol, right -- not!!! You are just being a sucker to all those pool naysayers that have been looking for excuses to badmouth pool &amp; poolrooms for a hundred years, you know -- call it 'The Music Man' syndrome. I'm not saying the incident/s you, or others are reporting aren't true, you've just totally neglected statistical context, that's all.

Just out of curiosity, I did a Google search on "pool room" murder. Guess what, most of what pops up relates to fiction. Now that says alot to me. I presume you're a pool player, so don't you go falling for that fictional cliche, just because there happens to be a rare kernel of truth to it once in a great while...

Rest easy buddy, use good judgement in ALL phases of your life, but certainly get out and ENJOY as best you are able, and if you like pool, step into your pool room of choice with confidence, and have FUN, you're a whole lot safer there than you think.

Ralph S.
01-21-2003, 09:24 PM
NH Steve, I am not going overboard. I was merely stating a fact that happened here in Ft.Wayne and it has happened elswhere too. Maybe not on a large scale directly linked to pool, but violence in this country has gotten so much worse as the years have gone by. Just look at the 6 o'clock news or the morning paper. You may also have me confused with Stevie. I aint gonna stay inside. Hell, I was out the next day playing. You can also ask Tom in Cincy, it will definitely have to be a lethal shot since I am quite capable of taking care of myself oldschool style.
Ralph S.

landshark1002000
01-21-2003, 10:02 PM
One of my favorite movies is RAIN MAN. Remember how he wouldn't fly because the airlines all had deadly plane crashes. Except Quantas.
Quantas wouldn't take these folks to L.A. -- but that's what makes it so funny. Mathematically brilliant but socially challenged RAIN MAN saw the world thru numbers, thru statistics. Unfortunately numbers don't explain the world. They're a kind of crutch though. Like a magic way to protect ourselves from future danger.
But can you really plan for the future this way? If the numbers say that most homicides occur in the home are you gonna live in your car? Or if the bedroom is the most likely place to get murdered by your spouse are you going to give up marriage AND sex?
Maybe RAIN MAN'S way isn't the best after all. Besides, his Dad only let him drive the car on the driveway on Tuesday.

snipershot
01-21-2003, 11:55 PM
Although it may not be pool related, it will seem like it to the public, it seems lately that the media is quick to jump on the negative things that happen and then ignore something good that happens.

NH_Steve
01-22-2003, 06:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr> NH Steve, I am not going overboard. I was merely stating a fact that happened here in Ft.Wayne and it has happened elswhere too. Maybe not on a large scale directly linked to pool, but violence in this country has gotten so much worse as the years have gone by. Just look at the 6 o'clock news or the morning paper. ...
Ralph S. <hr /></blockquote> No you weren't "merely stating a fact" -- you climbed right aboard the time worn cliche in your subject line: "...the violent side of pool". Pool has no intrinsic violent side like hockey has a 'violent side'. In fact, I would venture to guess that violence problems with pool rooms are more often neighborhood problems -- as pool rooms often seek lower rent locations; or alcohol problems -- as there are tons of bars that have pool tables.

Actually, you might be wrong about another thing in your post -- don't statistics actually show that violent crime has been declining for the last ten years or more? 'Course if you rely on your local TV news, that's the problem /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif , because blowing violence &amp; accidents up bigger than life size is what local TV does...

I stick to my guns /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif -- your post perpetuates a largely fictional cliche about pool rooms.

NH_Steve
01-22-2003, 06:57 AM
Yeah, unfortunately perpetuated by posts like Ralph's here /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
01-22-2003, 07:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote steviewonder1976:</font><hr> "Wally", Until youv'e been a victim of crime you can't understand the feeling some people get. Yes some people use computers for an escape to the real world, not just from violence but other things too, some are handicapped and are harassed for not fitting to well in society, so don't [censored] talk about sitting in front of a computer. [censored] <hr /></blockquote>

Well dude if you're handicapped I'm sorry but that's no reason to get vulgar.

Personally I choose to live my life and not dwell too much on what might happen.

We were scheduled to fly to Key West in October 2001 along with 6 other people. After September 11 my girlfriend's sister called and said "Well I guess we're not going to Key West". We said "You bet your a$$ we're still going"

I'm not going to let fear rule my life.

BTW if you ever need a bodyguard give me a shout /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

Ralph S.
01-22-2003, 11:13 PM
NH Steve, I am or try to be respectful of other peoples opinions. What I was trying to get across was the violence in todays society no matter where it happens. This time it was outside a pool hall. Because of where it happens it is automatically become associated with the seedy past of pool, which over the years has contained violence. Although those acts might not be large in numbers compared to the rest of society. I have not bashed you, but you seem to insist on bashing me. Why? Because I happened to point out a glaring fact that is prevelant in todays society? I think you need to wake up and smell some of the [censored] you are shoveling. Have a nice day!
Ralph S.

Chris Cass
01-23-2003, 12:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote steviewonder1976:</font><hr> "Wally", Until youv'e been a victim of crime you can't understand the feeling some people get. Yes some people use computers for an escape to the real world, not just from violence but other things too, some are handicapped and are harassed for not fitting to well in society, so don't [censored] talk about sitting in front of a computer. [censored] <hr /></blockquote>

Steve,

I have cancer and can walk out and get shot or ran over by a truck too. Life is too valuable, not to live it the way you want to. There's too many good moments that out weigh the bad ones. There's a lot of good people here too. I feel bad for you my friend. Not pity, just bad. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Although, I've been through some rough boughts with this cancer. I still forfill my obligation to my BCA league and to myself where pools concerned. I refuse to let this cancer rule my life, more than it does already. You too have to live your life and be strong enough to do it. I don't think your a weak person by your words but staying at home and letting this control your life, is not a healthy thing.

BTW, Wally meant no disrespect. He just has a dry sence of humor. He's a kind and caring person as I can attest to that personally. He's been fighting this cancer with me since it invaded my body. Matter of fact everyone here has.

Now, you might be trying to promote this new thing or just stating your opinion. I just didn't want you to get bent out of shape and give in to what if's.

JMHO,

C.C.

NH_Steve
01-23-2003, 10:10 PM
Ralph, here's what I said -- where's the "bashing"? <blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr> Ralph, I think you are going way overboard in associating violence with pool rooms. For every fight/murder in or near a pool room there are a thousand in or near a barroom -- and they are clearly alcohol influenced. That must be why there is so much bad press about alcohol, right -- not!!! You are just being a sucker to all those pool naysayers that have been looking for excuses to badmouth pool &amp; poolrooms for a hundred years, you know -- call it 'The Music Man' syndrome. I'm not saying the incident/s you, or others are reporting aren't true, you've just totally neglected statistical context, that's all.

Just out of curiosity, I did a Google search on "pool room" murder. Guess what, most of what pops up relates to fiction. Now that says alot to me. I presume you're a pool player, so don't you go falling for that fictional cliche, just because there happens to be a rare kernel of truth to it once in a great while...

Rest easy buddy, use good judgement in ALL phases of your life, but certainly get out and ENJOY as best you are able, and if you like pool, step into your pool room of choice with confidence, and have FUN, you're a whole lot safer there than you think. <hr /></blockquote><blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr> No you weren't "merely stating a fact" -- you climbed right aboard the time worn cliche in your subject line: "...the violent side of pool". Pool has no intrinsic violent side like hockey has a 'violent side'. In fact, I would venture to guess that violence problems with pool rooms are more often neighborhood problems -- as pool rooms often seek lower rent locations; or alcohol problems -- as there are tons of bars that have pool tables.

Actually, you might be wrong about another thing in your post -- don't statistics actually show that violent crime has been declining for the last ten years or more? 'Course if you rely on your local TV news, that's the problem /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif , because blowing violence &amp; accidents up bigger than life size is what local TV does...

I stick to my guns /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif -- your post perpetuates a largely fictional cliche about pool rooms. <hr /></blockquote>
Oh, wait, here's the "bashing", and it's in YOUR post... <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr> NH Steve, I am or try to be respectful of other peoples opinions. What I was trying to get across was the violence in todays society no matter where it happens. This time it was outside a pool hall. Because of where it happens it is automatically become associated with the seedy past of pool, which over the years has contained violence. Although those acts might not be large in numbers compared to the rest of society. I have not bashed you, but you seem to insist on bashing me. Why? Because I happened to point out a glaring fact that is prevelant in todays society? I think you need to wake up and smell some of the [censored] you are shoveling. Have a nice day!
Ralph S. <hr /></blockquote>