PDA

View Full Version : Intentional Foul



03-14-2002, 07:49 AM
8-ball game. Balls are lined up on the foot rail in the following order: 8-5-C. There is less than an inch between the balls. The 8 is approximately 1" from the left pocket. I am shooting at the eight, the five is my opponent's ball. My opponent says there is a rule that I must make a good-faith effort to hit the eight. I bank off the head rail, graze the side rail, and hit the eight without scratching. However, this moves the balls so that my opponent now runs out. Could I have intentionally fouled, leaving my opponent with ball-in-hand?

03-14-2002, 09:49 AM
you can foul whenever and however you want. fouling is a very important part of the game.

BillPorter
03-14-2002, 09:57 AM
The tournaments and money games I have played in allow you to make an intentional foul. The exception would be playing in some strange bar or poolroom where they have (and sometimes enforce!)a rule like you mentioned--a good faith attempt to hit the eight ball. I remember many years ago playing money pool in a little bar and doing an intentional foul in a game of eight ball. The looks I got from my opponent and his friends convinced me that they didn't play by those rules in that bar.

Rod
03-14-2002, 11:33 AM
Scott, if you are playing ball in hand, then there is no such thing as a good faith effort. Good faith is mostly one of those bar room rules. If my opponent suggested that, I'd just go, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

dave
03-14-2002, 12:09 PM
If you're in a bar, get the rules established first. Most bar players do not play league or tournament rules (ball in hand) and won't like seeing defensive play of that order. Obviously you were not playing a player that was familiar with the defintion of a legal hit under ball in hand rules. I have seen plenty of arguments and fights in bars as a result of this misunderstanding. Don't assume they understand what a legal defensive shot is.

jjinfla
03-14-2002, 12:26 PM
The good faith rule was invented by the "good old boys" and you don't want to PO the good old boys. It's more or less the "rule" in the bar I play in. But if you shoot and miss hitting the ball who is to say you weren't trying to hit the ball? The trick (skill) is not to make it obvious. Since you were on the rail it would have been easy for you get down and pretend you are going to kickfrom the opposite end rail to hit the 8 ball and miscue. Or put a little too much right english on the cue so when it comes off the end rail it hits the side rail early and then deflects missing the balls alltogether. Or stroke softly so the cue ball doesn't reach the balls. Or try a multirail kick shot. If that one comes anywhere near the balls you might even hear your opponent say "nice try". Jake

03-14-2002, 12:32 PM
In Valley and BCA play, intentionally fouling is a valid strategy. There's nothing in the books that given your opponent the God-given right to make you move the table around to their advantage. In fact, I intentionally fouled on 2 shots in a recent state tournament to stay in control of the table.

03-14-2002, 03:00 PM
If you were playing ball in hand rules, to me, that means there is no such thing as good faith efforts to hit anything, 8 ball or not. Our league used to be a non-ball-in-hand league, using the good faith effort rule on everything, and in that case, any deliberate safety or foul was loss of game, by rule. However, in practice, people got away with intentional miscues, 2 way shots that weren't intended to try to make an object ball, etc.-- just by making it not too obvious what they were doing. Our league went to ball in hand rules to avoid these methods of cheating on that rule.

Chris Cass
03-14-2002, 03:37 PM
Hi Scott,
That's a crock. Don't listen to this from anyone. If you do think you should? Then hit the head rail and say oop's, I guess I didn't hit it hard enough. Give him the ball in hand. The worse that could happen is he, pushes your 8 closer to the pocket.

Now, if there's no ball in hand. Then, I can understand such a out dated way of playing. In leagues, some people frown on intentional fouls but, still they screw ya and act like they went for it. It's all BS anyway. This is what I hate about leagues and bar play. In any event you should, have the rules set out prior to playing and tell, your opponent not to let you know along the way. Most bars that have league play, know about the BCA or APA rules. I hope you weren't playing for the doe. If you were, then you were scammed. JMHO

Regards,
C.C.

Sid_Vicious
03-14-2002, 09:36 PM
..that up. I was informed last night by one of the local strong player who's looking to get a local league started here in the DFW area, that the rumor is that the BCA is considering making it a loss of game to take an intentional foul in such a manner, not making an attempt to hit your suit. Only time will tell if this is true, but I personally feel that it would be wrong to take that strategy away from the game...sid

Troy
03-14-2002, 10:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> ..that up. I was informed last night by one of the local strong player who's looking to get a local league started here in the DFW area, that the rumor is that the BCA is considering making it a loss of game to take an intentional foul in such a manner, not making an attempt to hit your suit. Only time will tell if this is true, but I personally feel that it would be wrong to take that strategy away from the game...sid <hr></blockquote>

In many instances it would be very tough to determine a players "intended" shot. "Oh, I missed"..... /ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif

jjinfla
03-15-2002, 05:55 AM
I don't like the rule, but where I play the "good old boys" are all bigger, meaner and younger than I am. So it's the old "go along to get along" philosophy. And speaking of rules. What's this I hear the APA does not allow a "push out" in 9-ball after the break? Jake

03-15-2002, 10:39 AM
a "good attempt" rule is dumb because you can make any intentional foul look like a "good attempt."

03-15-2002, 07:31 PM
Your opponent is telling you a fib. You do not "have" to make a good-faith effort to play the ball. The object of the game is to win, and applying good strategy by taking the intentional foul achieves that objective.

You should intentionally foul by hitting the five in such a manner that ties it up, and let your hopefully lesser skilled opponent "sell out".

Vagabond
03-15-2002, 09:32 PM
Good faith rule is only in redneck bars where every one strives for honesty and integrity.These are the bars where Defensive game is frowned upon.
Interestingly none of these shy away from taking legally allowed tax deductions for their yearly tax returns.
Vagabond

03-16-2002, 01:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> ..that up. I was informed last night by one of the local strong player who's looking to get a local league started here in the DFW area, that the rumor is that the BCA is considering making it a loss of game to take an intentional foul in such a manner, not making an attempt to hit your suit. Only time will tell if this is true, but I personally feel that it would be wrong to take that strategy away from the game...sid <hr></blockquote>
Well, let's hope not. According to page viii of the BCA's "Billiards: The Official Rules and Records Book" 2001 edition,
"There will be no substantial changes until 2005..."
One might think declaring intentional fouls a loss of game would be considered a "substantial" change, no?
Tim

Doctor_D
03-16-2002, 06:15 AM
Good morning:

Intentional fouls, including gicving the opponent ball in hand with-out shooting, is all part of the game.

Dr. D.