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L.S. Dennis
01-24-2003, 03:33 PM
I was just browsing through Mosconi's little red book written around 1949 or so and on page twenty there is a photograph of him demonstrating proper stance. Under him the caption reads "The body faces the shot, and is balanced to move forward with the stroke.

Doesn't this directly contradict everything that we were told involving keeping down and NOT moving the body with the shot?

01-24-2003, 04:19 PM
Perhaps that is just his way of saying your weight should be on your front foot.

Jimbo

01-24-2003, 04:34 PM
Seems that I read somewhere that the little red book had many "errors" printed in it. It might have been Bob Byrne in one of his books that mentioned it. I never have bought Mosconi's book, but have leafed through it in bookstores many times.

I can't remember for certain if it was that book, but I recall that some famous player (I thought was Mosconi or Hoppe) had lent his name to an instructional book but didn't actually write it, and in fact had never laid eyes on the material until after it was published.

David

L.S. Dennis
01-24-2003, 07:05 PM
I think that was Hoppe that you're referring to. If I'm not mistaken it had to do with a diamond system that Hoppe never in fact used.

Fran Crimi
01-24-2003, 07:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimbo:</font><hr> Perhaps that is just his way of saying your weight should be on your front foot.


<hr /></blockquote>

That sounds exactly like what the book is saying, except Willie's weight was on his back leg when he played. Let's hope it's a case of him not writing the book rather than him not knowing which way he was leaning. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Fran

Wally_in_Cincy
01-25-2003, 10:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote L.S. Dennis:</font><hr> I think that was Hoppe that you're referring to. If I'm not mistaken it had to do with a diamond system that Hoppe never in fact used. <hr /></blockquote>

That was discussed in "McGoorty". He said one day he saw Hoppe with his own (ghost-written) book trying to use the diamond system described therein. After a while Hoppe closed the book and said "This #%&amp;* doesn't work at all" or something to that effect /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Wally in the Natti

Scott Lee
01-25-2003, 11:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> That sounds exactly like what the book is saying, except Willie's weight was on his back leg when he played. Let's hope it's a case of him not writing the book rather than him not knowing which way he was leaning. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Fran<hr /></blockquote>

You're probably right, Fran. You'll remember, that 30 yrs ago, Mosconi's little red book, Willie Mosconi on Pocket Billiards, along with his second book, published in the 60's, Winning Pocket Billiards, were THE definitive texts at the time! LOL Both contained, imo, lots of errors, especially the way the shots lined up, but they were still great reads! I had both of them, and studied them intently when I was just beginning to play. However, when I began taking professional lessons from Frank Oliva in Chicago, I learned how things REALLY work on the table! LOL I heard that Mosconi didn't actually write the books, but was interviewed extensively by the Brunswick people, who were purported behind the publishing. In any event, I got Willie to autograph both books for me when I played him in 1975!

Scott

Fran Crimi
01-25-2003, 12:07 PM
Yup. I still have both books and they were the first ones I read on pool too. I studied those things like they were the bible. The section I enjoyed the most was where they'd show you a table layout and you had to figure out how to run the balls. That was pretty cool. That's great that you got him to autograph them. I'm sure they're very valuable.

Fran

Rod
01-25-2003, 12:13 PM
I still have the original book. It is the first book I read on the game. I have read less than a hand full of others. One thing that holds true today is chapter 10, speed of stroke. He makes it clear feel is needed and you must learn it yourself through practice. You can't teach a person feel, only help guide them in the right direction. As ones stroke improves so does their sense of feel. I put that book away after the first year or so. Never bought another until the 90's. There are errors but then I hear about errors in todays books. It just covers basics and at the time little if any other book was available. As pointed out his weight favored his rear foot. I think what he meant to say, there is a slight weight transfer as the stroke is completed. Not that you could visibly see it when he played. Keep in mind this was written for 14-1. Today of course it is very visible playing 9 ball especially on the break for many players.

Scott Lee
01-25-2003, 12:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> That's great that you got him to autograph them. I'm sure they're very valuable.

Fran

<hr /></blockquote>
Fran...LOL! Well, mine are so thread-bare from going through them so much back then, that I doubt they would be worth much. However, they are priceless to ME! LOL

Scott

canwin
01-26-2003, 07:55 PM
"You can't teach a person feel, only help guide them in the right direction. As ones stroke improves so does their sense of feel."
When you say that feel can't be taught-what are you describing when you use the word feel? canwin

Rod
01-27-2003, 01:10 AM
Speed of stroke for any given combinations of english, angles and distance for position play, breaking out balls, banks, caroms etc. It can be taught in the sense of helping them understand why things happen. It is up to them to obtain that feel for any shot through practice. As I mentioned as the stroke improves so does feel. It is kind of a repeat cycle. As the stroke improves you get more bang for the buck, so to speak. You can draw or follow easier amonst other things so you now have a new sense of feel. As one improves there is adjustments. Those adjustments before or after are "your" sense of feel, just to keep it basic.