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Wally_in_Cincy
01-28-2003, 08:16 AM
Greeting poolplayers,

Last night in APA league I had to play a 3. I had to win 4 games, he had to win 2. This guy has been in the league for 13 years and is still a 3. I had never played him before so I didn't know what to expect.

The first game I did not have a runout so I made sure I left 2 or 3 balls on the table so he could not hide the CB. The first 2 shots the guy took he "missed" to perfection, blocking the 2 bottom corner pockets. So this leaves me wasting my turns at the table trying to get my balls up-table so I can get a shot at them. I would have shot my balls into his hangers opening up one of the corners but the combo just wasn't there. In retrospect I should have shot a billiard to open up one of the pockets but, like I said, I didn't really know if this guy had any game.

Of course I ended up losing the first game.

Second game same the exact same thing happened. Two shots, two blocked corner pockets. Here I am again looking like a monkey trying to have intimate relations with a football while he taps his balls around, making one or two in the process. One missed shot by me, one bad roll, and a 5 ball runout by him leaves me crying in my beer and putting my cue back in the case.

I was pretty hacked off. I felt like saying "Must be a bitch to play for 13 years and still be a 3" but I remembered yesterday's thread about sore losers /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Well at least I'll know what to expect from this dude next time.

Anybody got any suggestions?

TIA

Wally in the Natti~~sullen and dejected but wiser

9 Ball Girl
01-28-2003, 09:34 AM
Wally, I feel your pain. Last week I played a 2. I had to win 5 she had to win 2. The same thing happened. She would miss her shots and the balls would find a way to safe me out or they would block the pockets. It came to the point that eveytime it was my turn, I found myself trying to shoot my balls to the opposite end of the table to get away from hers. She won the 1st game so off the bat she's already on the hill. Arrrghh! I lost 4-2. You probably already read this on Heide's "Have You Ever" thread.

Anyway, what to do? When it happened to me, I felt like $hit 'cause I'm suppose to beat her! But I stopped dwelling on it (it took me 2 days) and just chalked it up as "one of those nights".

Rich R.
01-28-2003, 10:45 AM
Let it go Wally.
It is just the nature of any handicap system. By definition, a handicap system is suppose to give the lesser player a chance to win, once in a while. That was just your night to be the victim and you can't change it now.
Hopefully, the next time it will be your turn to shine. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
01-28-2003, 11:01 AM
Thanx Rich

It doesn't really bother me. My prose was just a bit melodramatic /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Anybody who has played APA knows the feeling.

I was hoping that some folks would have suggestions on how to extricate oneself from such a dicey table layout.

Wally_in_Cincy
01-28-2003, 11:07 AM
Yo 9BG,

I'm glad somebody feels my pain /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I guess it's safe to say one thing about APA... Nobody wants to play a 2 or a 3. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif unless of course if you are at the same level.

Rich R.
01-28-2003, 11:23 AM
I wish I could help you Wally, but I've been in the same situation myself. Once that low level player gets a game, and is on the hill, there is no margin for error. I have tried to play conservatively, by making easy shots and then playing safe, and I have just let it all out and tried to run out ASAP. Either way, most of the time I'm successful, but occasionally I'm not. I don't think there is a formula for success in that situation.
Of course, "Murphy's Law" comes into play and whenever the low level player misses, you WILL NOT have a shot.
Just try your best and if it doesn't work, try again next week. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

cheesemouse
01-28-2003, 11:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> Greeting poolplayers,

Last night in APA league I had to play a 3. I had to win 4 games, he had to win 2. This guy has been in the league for 13 years and is still a 3. I had never played him before so I didn't know what to expect.

The first game I did not have a runout so I made sure I left 2 or 3 balls on the table so he could not hide the CB. The first 2 shots the guy took he "missed" to perfection, blocking the 2 bottom corner pockets. So this leaves me wasting my turns at the table trying to get my balls up-table so I can get a shot at them. I would have shot my balls into his hangers opening up one of the corners but the combo just wasn't there. In retrospect I should have shot a billiard to open up one of the pockets but, like I said, I didn't really know if this guy had any game.

Of course I ended up losing the first game.

Second game same the exact same thing happened. Two shots, two blocked corner pockets. Here I am again looking like a monkey trying to have intimate relations with a football while he taps his balls around, making one or two in the process. One missed shot by me, one bad roll, and a 5 ball runout by him leaves me crying in my beer and putting my cue back in the case.

I was pretty hacked off. I felt like saying "Must be a bitch to play for 13 years and still be a 3" but I remembered yesterday's thread about sore losers /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Well at least I'll know what to expect from this dude next time.

Anybody got any suggestions?

TIA

Wally in the Natti~~sullen and dejected but wiser
<hr /></blockquote>


Wally,
This is a tough situation in 8ball. The only stategy I think that fits all the possible situations is: when you give up the table you have to find that one shot that gives your opponent only one good option and that is the one you just steered him/her into. Without being able to see the lay of the balls keeping some feeling of control is always a good option...by the way I just got torchured for three days playing in a team/singles 8ball event this past weekend and I now hate the game of 8ball once again....@$$%&amp;(**$## game...anyway....... /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Rod
01-28-2003, 12:38 PM
Hi Wally,
Dejected and rejected eh? First off don't cry in your beer, you may want to drink it later? LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

We all like to make balls but playing 8 ball that is not always a smart move. Even the lower rated players can make balls. You'd think you would get a shot to finish off the game but then you might be underestimating your opponent. I've sometimes noticed lower rated players play a decent defense, mostly because their offense is weak.

When you play those guys/gals making a ball or two is ok. At the same time bunt your balls around for better table position and play safe. One thing a lower rated player can't handle well is traffic. You removed to much traffic and made the game more even. Had you had a couple more balls you probably would have had a shot when he missed. Managed traffic is to your advantage. When they make that key mistake it's your time to go. Just be sure you can get out from there. Of course you could make a couple more balls followed with a lock up safety. Every circumstance is a little different but it's always table management to your advantage. Bottom line is, you have a distinct advantage with more balls.

~~~ rod -- hopes this helps, ok back to your beer /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

=k=
01-28-2003, 12:52 PM
hi wally know the flustration.. my way is to either block his ball or knock it in.. i don't wait i get it over as quick as i can, so far 70 per cent over coming this type of play.

Karatemom
01-28-2003, 12:58 PM
Hi Wally. This isn't a suggestion, but the exact same thing happened to me last night. Race to 2, playing a guy I've never seen shoot, but everyone at the ph knows him. So I played very carefully, potting balls when I needed to, and playing safe when needed. There was a time when he also had both corner pockets blocked and my 10 was on the end rail. I should have played safe, but instead, tried to knock his ball in as my 10 followed it in. Well, his dropped, but not mine. Needless to say, he ran out and I lost 2-1. I went on to win 2 more matches, then lost near the doe.

But last night wasn't about being a sore loser. It was actually kind of fun. Even though I lost, I did play some great shots and safeties and was happy with the way I performed. It just so happened that my opponents played a little better and were able to capitalize on my mistakes, which is the point, right? What's done is done and can't do anything about it now but make sure I don't do it again, which I probably will anyway, /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone.

Heide

Mikey
01-28-2003, 01:44 PM
Hi Wally, I know it's hard to get yourself to do, but when playing APA 8 ball or 9 ball and you'are the high handicapper against a low handicapper , you either have to run out right away or play safes so you get your chance to run out. You can't let your ego get in the way in these matches.

landshark1002000
01-28-2003, 01:52 PM
Hi Wally,
Sounds like defense is good strategy in your neck of the woods.:o He multiplied your problems and shut down your offensive game.
In football this would be called great defense.
You seem to understand what he did. Are you reluctant to learn from this "lesser" player? What keeps you from applying this lesson in defense to your own game?

cuechick
01-28-2003, 02:06 PM
Hi,
I have seen weasels like this, who slowly get all their balls into duck positions and then miraclusly run out. Unless this guy is mentally disabled this is how he has stayed a 3 for 13 years. He creates innings just by doing this...is it intentional, I would say yes.
However to combat this kind of player you must enter the chess match. You are still the better shooter, he knows he is limited in his shot making skills.
I will give you the advice, my coach, Tony R. gave me, if you don't have a runable table make sure your oppoenant dosn't either, in otherwords tie up his balls, instead of trying to break your balls out, don't fall into the trap, be patient, it will be the tortise that wins this race!

landshark1002000
01-28-2003, 02:08 PM
Hi Rod,
Enjoyed your 8 ball post to Wally. He sounded kind of surprised by this strategy. You didn't.
I'd be interested in hearing more about your own 8 ball game. By the way, I live on the west side.
Ted

Fred Agnir
01-28-2003, 02:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> Anybody got any suggestions?
<hr /></blockquote>
Nope. No suggestions. You know how to play this game. You knew what was happening. You did the right things. You had a game plan and tried not to sell out. It's a handicapped race. Sometimes, you're gonna lose. It's as simple as that.

Fred

Wally_in_Cincy
01-28-2003, 02:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cuechick:</font><hr> Hi,
I have seen weasels like this, who slowly get all their balls into duck positions and then miraclusly run out. Unless this guy is mentally disabled this is how he has stayed a 3 for 13 years. He creates innings just by doing this...is it intentional, I would say yes.

<font color="blue">You are correct. I figured he was doing it intentionally at first and then I knew for sure. By then it was too late /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. If the scorekeepers would mark those shots properly, as safeties, he would not be a 3. </font color>

However to combat this kind of player you must enter the chess match. You are still the better shooter, he knows he is limited in his shot making skills.
I will give you the advice, my coach, Tony R. gave me, if you don't have a runable table make sure your oppoenant dosn't either, in otherwords tie up his balls, instead of trying to break your balls out, don't fall into the trap, be patient, it will be the tortise that wins this race!

<font color="blue">Correct once again. Patience can win you many games of 8-ball at the league level.</font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy
01-28-2003, 02:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark1002000:</font><hr> Hi Wally,
Sounds like defense is good strategy in your neck of the woods.:o He multiplied your problems and shut down your offensive game.
In football this would be called great defense.
You seem to understand what he did. Are you reluctant to learn from this "lesser" player?

<font color="red">What keeps you from applying this lesson in defense to your own game?</font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

I like to get home before 1:00 a.m. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I play defense a lot because of my (lack of) cue ball control. Just not to that degree.

Seriously if every 8-ball match I played was like that, I would quit playing 8-ball. That's too much like 1P /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
01-28-2003, 02:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark1002000:</font><hr>
...He sounded kind of surprised by this strategy. You didn't.
<hr /></blockquote>

The only surprise was because most folks in this league don't play defense to that extent. They all (well, most) have jobs to go to the next morning.

Believe me I've got the patience to play defense as long as I need to. I defeated a wily veteran last week doing that. He jokingly called me the "happy hooker" after the match.

Rod
01-28-2003, 03:14 PM
Hi Ted,
To tell you the truth I don't even play 8 ball. I mean I have played on leagues, went to vegas a few times etc. Last time for that was about 4 years ago. 8 ball like any other game, for me anyway, needs to be played to keep my thinking sharp. In the end it still is about table management. Every shot should have a purpose to keep a step in front of your opponent. I've been there when I realized I just made a key mistake. All I could do was chalk it up to experience.

I play 9 ball, 14-1 and a little one pocket when I play.

Rod

landshark1002000
01-28-2003, 07:51 PM
Hi cuechick,
You're SO right! He's playing chess!! He's controlling the table. And his strategy doesn't rely on shotmaking skill either.
This is exactly how the weaker player can beat the stronger one. He's the tortoise! It's brains vs ego.
Great post! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
01-28-2003, 09:48 PM
Wally,
No suggestions.. could have happened to anyone.. even another SL3. When your opponent only has to win 2 games it puts even the best players in a "game mode" that isn't all that comfortable. I think you played (from your description of the games) well.. the other guy just played better.. He was up.. for a change.