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View Full Version : Why is my Simonis 860 slower than others??



dooziexx
01-28-2003, 11:23 AM
I currently own a 9ft Centerspot table covered in Simonis 860. The table is about 3 years old and the felt is about 6 months old with about 2hours of play per day on the average. Its still in great condition.

I recently participated in a local tourney and their tables (Gold Crown IIIs) were just recovered in Simonis 860. But for some reason, the cloth plays alot faster than mine. I could draw easier and balls spins off the rails quickly. The Simonis on my table never played that fast, even when it was new.

Do any of you know what the difference maybe? Is it the surrounding condition? My table is in the basement where the temp is around 50 to 60s while the ph's are heated. What could effect the difference in cloth speed?

Anonamus
01-28-2003, 11:44 AM
It could be several reasons. The clothe may not have been stretched tight enough. It could be more humid in your basement. Or your cueball is heavier than the object balls. Or maybe it's not really Simonis.

Sid_Vicious
01-28-2003, 12:00 PM
A shot in the dark, is it possibly upside down? That mistake's been made before. Other than that I'd say that is isn't stretched right...sid

Fran Crimi
01-28-2003, 12:00 PM
Here's a few possibilities:

1) Is it really Simonis 860? A few manufacturers, like Mali, make Simonis-type cloth but they don't play the same. Check your bill and make sure it doesn't say Simonis style or Simonis type. Also, Simonis 860 is embossed with the Simonis label in gold every few feet along the edges, so in the future you should ask the installers if you can see the label. Usually the label is somewhere on your table, on the bed of the cloth under a rail, or on the underside of a rail. Sometimes it's where you can't see it which is why you need to ask to see it when they're installing the cloth.

2) Is the cloth on upside down? Don't laugh, it happens. The label serves as a guide for the installers to make sure they're installing the cloth right side up--another reason why you should ask to see it. Several years ago when the men and women pros played together, we played an entire pro event on upside down Simonis. It was too late to do anything about but it was a very strange tournament, to say the least.

3)This is a common problem: Is the cloth pulled tight enough? Try to grab some of the cloth with your fingers and see if it comes up. If it moves around fairly easily, it's probably too loose. It should just barely move when you push it around with your fingers.

4)Humidity is always an issue, but if your cloth didn't play fast right from the beginning, then I'd guess that something was wrong at the time of installation.

Fran

dooziexx
01-28-2003, 12:13 PM
Hi Fran,
To answers your questions:
1) Yes its Simonis 860, I saw it before it was installed.
2) Not sure which way is up or down but I know when the cloth was installed i could see the "Simonis 860" print or label every 10-12 inches or so.
3) Cloth is pulled tight. It barely moves when I push it around.

dooziexx
01-28-2003, 12:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Anonamus:</font><hr> It could be several reasons. The clothe may not have been stretched tight enough. It could be more humid in your basement. Or your cueball is heavier than the object balls. Or maybe it's not really Simonis. <hr /></blockquote>

1) Cloth is strecthed tight
2) Cue ball and object ball are the same weight
3) Its Simonis coz I saw the cloth before they installed it.

Fran Crimi
01-28-2003, 12:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dooziexx:</font><hr> Hi Fran,
To answers your questions:
1) Yes its Simonis 860, I saw it before it was installed.
2) Not sure which way is up or down but I know when the cloth was installed i could see the "Simonis 860" print or label every 10-12 inches or so.
3) Cloth is pulled tight. It barely moves when I push it around.
<hr /></blockquote>

OK, that narrows it down some more. If you saw the label and it wasn't on the underside of the cloth, you're OK there.

So you know it's Simonis, it's pulled tight and installed right side up.

Then it's probably the equipment. The cushions on your table may not be giving you the same reaction as the cushions on the other table you played on and you may be mistaken in thinking it's the cloth. The other possibility is the balls you're using compared to the ones at the pool hall. The balls will make some difference but not a huge one. I think it's the cushions.

Fran

Fred Agnir
01-28-2003, 12:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dooziexx:</font><hr>

Do any of you know what the difference maybe? Is it the surrounding condition? My table is in the basement where the temp is around 50 to 60s while the ph's are heated. What could effect the difference in cloth speed? <hr /></blockquote>
After reading your answers to the others' questions, this is most likely it. Both temperature and humidity have a profound affect on speed. The cloth, cushions and balls become slower as the humidity goes up, and the temperature goes down.

Fred

dooziexx
01-28-2003, 12:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dooziexx:</font><hr> Hi Fran,
To answers your questions:
1) Yes its Simonis 860, I saw it before it was installed.
2) Not sure which way is up or down but I know when the cloth was installed i could see the "Simonis 860" print or label every 10-12 inches or so.
3) Cloth is pulled tight. It barely moves when I push it around.
<hr /></blockquote>

OK, that narrows it down some more. If you saw the label and it wasn't on the underside of the cloth, you're OK there.

So you know it's Simonis, it's pulled tight and installed right side up.

Then it's probably the equipment. The cushions on your table may not be giving you the same reaction as the cushions on the other table you played on and you may be mistaken in thinking it's the cloth. The other possibility is the balls you're using compared to the ones at the pool hall. The balls will make some difference but not a huge one. I think it's the cushions.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Fran,
Thanks for taking the time to help me. I really appreciate it. Apart from the cushions, the movement is general slow when the cue ball does not contact a rail.

For example, when I practice my long draw shots where the object ball is 1 diamond away from the pocket and the cue ball is 1 diamond away from the opposite corner pocket. In the pool hall, i could draw the cue ball table length diagonally with ease. But at home, with the same stroke and speed, my draw distance would be 4 or 5 diamonds in length. I have to really struggle to get it back to the opposite corner pocket on my home table. These are just draw shots without rail contact. Any thoughts on that?

Rod
01-28-2003, 12:58 PM
doozie, I think your covered on this issue. Cold and damp conditions slow up a table big time. Check your rail speed.
With a firm stroke,(no bouncing c/b) center ball,at the headstring hit 4 + rails lengthwise. Was that fairly easy to do? Go to the pool room and check the same. It is probably a combination of both. My only other thought is rail height. I'm not familiar with centerline.

Fran Crimi
01-28-2003, 01:06 PM
Yes, then I have to agree with Fred. It's the temperature combined with the humidity. The only thing that puzzles me is why the cloth played slow right from installation. It should have played fast for at least an hour or so before the humidity took effect. You said it never played fast.

I have a student with a humid basement, and he solved the problem with a decent dehumidifier. They can be a little expensive, but worth it in the long-run.

Good luck,

Fran

Sid_Vicious
01-28-2003, 01:11 PM
You've gotten several answers, some have to be the right one(s.) Try this, put a space heater in your basement and dry out the air for a day or two and see if it speeds up. I don't know anything about dehumidifiers but theory says that ought to work as well, and cost less in electricity. If you still roll slow, if your cloth is indeed right side up and stretched properly, then you have a ball-set issue(imo) Buy(or borrow) a new, quality set...sid

Fran Crimi
01-28-2003, 01:12 PM
This is very rare, but I have seen it happen. A bad bolt of cloth. The quality control at Simonis is usually excellent, but a bad batch isn't unheard of. It happens to every manufacturer. I think I heard somewhere that manufacturers will sell a less-than-perfect bolt as second-quailty to a retailer. But I honestly don't know if Simonis will do that. Also, it could be a bad bolt that slipped by. It happens.

Now I'm plum out of ideas. LOL

Fran

Chris Cass
01-28-2003, 03:19 PM
Hi,

Clean the balls and wipe the cloth down with a damp, not soaked cloth. See if this will help. You could also iron the cloth with a gentle mist of steam. Don't stop the iron, keep it moving. JAT

Regards,

C.C.

L.S. Dennis
01-28-2003, 04:34 PM
Judging by all the responses you've gotten from this question I'd say that your basement temperature is probably the answer to the problem. There's a reason why Earl Strickland says he likes playing in the desert. That is because it's hot and dry. That makes a world of difference in the way the balls roll.

While this won't help out with your rail problems, if you want to draw the ball a litte better try shooting a little silicone spray on the balls. This will give you a draw stroke that will make Mike Massey's eyes pop out!!!!

Brady_Behrman
01-28-2003, 04:43 PM
Temp and humidity are huge factors..

Simonis also makes an 860 HR (Humidity Resistant) may wanna try that

Thanks
Brady

Anonamus
01-29-2003, 07:14 AM
Don't dismiss the possibility of a heavier cue ball so quickly. Most likely the PH uses centennials with the dark blue dot cue ball. Sometimes a red circle cue ball is used. The red circle cue ball is lighter than the object balls and is easier to draw.

What kind of balls do you have at home? Are they a $50 set or are they quality balls? There's a place I play at sometimes that uses cheap balls and an oversized cue ball. So I bring a blue circle cue ball with me and since it's heavier than the other cheap balls it is real tough to draw.

dooziexx
01-29-2003, 09:58 AM
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all of your replies. I think its time for me to invest in a space heater and a dehumidifier for my basement. Hopefully the conditions will alter the way the cloth and table plays.

Barbara
01-29-2003, 10:31 AM
You don't want to run a dehumidifier AND a space heater during the winter months. You'll dry out the room too much and that's bad for any cues you might have stored down there.

You will want to use a dehumidifier during the summer months, though.

Barbara

Rich R.
01-29-2003, 11:08 AM
Buy yourself a small meter (I forget what the real name is) to measure the humidity. I got a nice small, inexpensive, one from Brookstone. That will help you set the dehumidifier to dry your room out with some accuracy.
As Barbara said, you probably will not need to run the dehumidifier in the winter months, because the air is drier, but go by your meter. A lot depends on how damp your room is. The dehumidifier will also give off a little heat.
A space heater will also dry out the air. You will have to experiment to balance temperature and humidity to make the room comfortable for both you and your equipment.

Fred Agnir
01-29-2003, 12:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> Buy yourself a small meter (I forget what the real name is) to measure the humidity. <hr /></blockquote>

Hygrometer.

Fred

Barbara
01-29-2003, 01:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Hygrometer.

Fred <hr /></blockquote> ~~~~~Mr. Knowitall /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Barbara~~~"Mrs. Iknowitall" ... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Perk
01-29-2003, 03:24 PM
Alot of answers, but i think I might have a suggestion. The balls are as important. Someone mentioned the difference btwn 50 dollar balls and top of the line. Regardless of the brand, make sure you store the balls in a normal heat environment (such as upstairs). I think this might help ya out a bit. Balls hit different in the cold than the warm. Just my two cents!

SpiderMan
01-29-2003, 05:17 PM
It's possible to install Simonis upside-down and not realize the error. My friend Chopstick in Orlando did just that on his 9' Diamond. Just one more thing to compare.

SpiderMan

Rich R.
01-30-2003, 06:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> ]

Hygrometer.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>
Thanks for the help Fred. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
My memory isn't what it used to be, or, maybe it never was too good. I don't remember. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

NBC-BOB
02-04-2003, 02:28 PM
Over the years I've reclothed about 4 tables with the 860 cloth.I have seen tables that were down the basement and had to deal with humidity problems and boy did they play slow.We tried tightening up the cloth but that didn't help.
What did help was going to 760 cloth and with the humidity, the table played like it had 860 on it.

L.S. Dennis
02-04-2003, 03:57 PM
I agree with Bob, the humidity is your problem. And his suggestion about going to 760 cloth is probably a good one.

There's a reason why Earl Strickland says he likes playing in the desert. It's hot and dry and the balls roll great!