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View Full Version : "Simple" run-out challenge:

Ross
01-28-2003, 04:38 PM
Ok, you are playing 9-ball and you end up with this 3-ball out:

START(%Gl0H4%H[5M3%Ir1N4%Pi2O0)END

(http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

Simple out - or is it? Here is the challenge - in 10 tries (at the table - not in your head!) can you get out 5 times with all of the shots being easy shots and with the final shot on the 9 being a "gimme"? Try it on the table - you may or may not be surprised. Let the exact positions of the cue ball and 7 vary a bit randomly so you are forced to evaluate speed and path anew each time - just leave yourself a moderate angle on the 7.

This layout has a lot to teach about position routes, speed control, and need for precise angles. Is is better to get uptable of the 8 to leave an angled cut into the side? If so, how well do you recover if you get too much or too little angle on the 8? Which is harder to recover from? Or is it more reliable to set up to shoot the 8 in one of the corner pockets to the left? And if so, which one?

If anyone is game, try it out and report your results.

Eric.
01-28-2003, 05:31 PM
I had the best luck with this:
START(
%Gl0H4%H[5M3%Ir1N4%Ph2N3%Uq2P8%Vo4X4%Wh0E1%Xj9H7%YQ3N8%Zf3D 0
%[o8E7%\]2M0%]m1W7%^`4Q6%eA8b1
)END

Looks like the key is cueball speed off the 7. playing this route gives me a choice of 2 corner pockets to play the 8 into with a simple rollup to the nine. A little tricky.

Eric

Paul_Mon
01-29-2003, 10:32 AM
I'll try this when I get home to the table. I'm more inclined to play it this way:

START(
%Gl0H4%H[5M3%Ir1N4%Ph2N3%QW1W4%Rn6G6%Ur8Z1%Vq8P1%Wh2D7%Xk1H 8
%YY1V7%Zf7C4%[[8D6%\[6L2%]m5H9%^[6N2%eB1a4
)END

IMO, it is more natural to get shape near "A" for the 8 in the side and again natural to get to "B" for the 9 in the corner. IMO, anytime you need to draw to position it is riskier. That said, you see the pros draw to position all the time. Some of that is due to the fact that they are playing on new cloth and the results are much more predictable.

Paul Mon

Ross
01-29-2003, 10:44 AM
Eric - I found the out tricky as well. Balls in the middle of the table look easy because there are so many pockets available, but if you get the wrong angle, cue ball transportation becomes a problem. Also, the 9 ball on the end rail cuts your position zone down considerably.

When I was working on this layout I randomly varied the position of the 7 a bit, and sometimes the cut angle was too great to easily take the route you took. In that case I had the most success going below the 8 for a cut into the side like this:
START(%Gl0H4%H[5M3%Ir1N4%Pi2O0%Wi0D4%Xk3H7%[j8I5%\i3N0%]X6T7%^h4C5
%eB0a2)END

This approach also required good speed control and directional control to avoid getting too straight in on the 8, clipping the 8, or scratching. I would then float the cue ball down to the end rail for a relatively straight in shot on the 9.

Ross
01-29-2003, 11:07 AM
Paul,
That's the position route I found to be the most reliable for me as well.
Ross

Eric.
01-29-2003, 11:33 AM
I guess thats the beauty of the game-more than one way to get it done /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I liked my route due to the fact that it is more forgiving when you try to get Po on the 8, as well as more forgiving to get shape on the 9. By going to the other side of the 8, it gives you either corner pocket to play to, in case you over/under cook the shot. By shooting the 8 into one of the corner pockets, IMO, it is easier to get shape on the 9(landing at A or B) as you are drifting forward towards the end rail vs. going side to side.

START(
%Gl0H4%H[5M3%Ir1N4%Pi0O5%Qm4X4%Rm9D4%SR6G6%TL0O5%Wg5E1%Xk3H 7
%YN8O5%Ze9D7%[j8I5%\i3N0%]U6H2%^e4D0%eA8b2
)END

Eric &gt;just personal preference

Paul_Mon
01-29-2003, 03:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> Ok, you are playing 9-ball and you end up with this 3-ball out:

START(%Gl0H4%H[5M3%Ir1N4%Pi2O0)END

If anyone is game, try it out and report your results. <hr /></blockquote>

I just tried it 10 times. Always playing the 8 in the side. I made it 9 times. One occasion the cue ball scratched in the side. One other occasion I got farther down table on the 8 than I wanted and had a longer shot on the 9 because I couldn't hold the cue ball on the end rail.

Paul

bigbro6060
01-29-2003, 05:28 PM
I tried it 20 times and made it 17 times. 2 of the 3 times i missed was because of stupid missed but makeable pots, only one time was because of 'bad position', i ended up with the whitey right on top of the 9 /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif making the shot impossible.

nAz
01-29-2003, 05:44 PM
haha that position looks familiar i bet i got out of line on it many times /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I'll try out tomorrow when i finally get back to a pool table...
i came up with this on WEI
START(
%Gl0H4%H[5M3%Ir1N4%Pg8N2%Ur3K4%Vr1H0%Wh0E1%Xj9H7%YY2U0%Zf3D 0
%[l1D2%\\0N1%][0O5%^X4U0%eA4`7%_[1E4%`[3H0%a[6K4%bq4G2%co6E7
%dm6D0
)END

Ross
01-29-2003, 08:23 PM
nAz, when I tried the 8 to 9 position shot I found that floating/stunning the cb off the 8 directly to the end rail (like this: START(%Gl0H4%H[5M3%Ir1N4%Pg8N2%Wh0E1%Xj9H7%YY2U0%Zf3D0%[o6H9%\\0N1%][0O5%^X4U0%eA4`7%_[1E4%`[3H0%a[6K4)END) worked better than shooting with top to try to roll it forward to come off the side rail. When I used top, I found it too easy to scratch in the corner due to small errors in speed or how thick I hit the 8. The stun/floater proved much more reliable to me. Try it both ways and let me know what you find.

nAz
01-29-2003, 08:46 PM
cool I'll give it a few trys when i get to a table, hopefully tomorrow /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
you know stunning the ball scares me i usually hit too hard or come to close to the OB, just one more things i need to work on Doh!

Rod
01-29-2003, 09:27 PM
Ross,
I used your shot today to warm up. I shot it the same way using center for shape on the nine. I shot several this way START(
%Gl0H4%H[5M3%Ir1N4%Pi2O0%Wh3D7%Xk1H4%Yc9F8%Zg9D1%_q9V3%`g8[1
%a\1M0
)END

Then a few this way START(
%Gl0H4%H[5M3%Ir1N4%Pi2O0%Yq0S2%Z\4L6%_Z0F8%`c3C6%aj7H7

)END

I missed a couple at the begining from starting cold. I'd take either of the first two options any time and get good position. The thing is one should shoot all three well. There might be more than the three rotation balls during a game situation and one would be forced to take another route. Of course you could play to make the 8 in one of the other 3 corner pockets but those would be my last choices.

Ross
01-31-2003, 01:49 PM
Interesting... Four different initial shots have been chosen for this layout (position of cue for shot on 8 indicated by letters):

START(%Gk7H3%H[4M4%Ir0O3%Pi6L4%QX2Q9%R_0H3%SX6G3%TT8I3%Uh0D3%Vj8I 1
%WY8Q8%Xh7C2%Y`7H3%Zg7C4%[Z2G8%\f3C2%]W2I7%^g2C3)END

None of these position routes have a very large margin of error for speed and direction when coming off the rail, although routes A and B have the largest margin of error for speed. Strong players have mastered speed and directional control and I think those who are reporting successful runout rates of 90% or so are the stronger players on this board. Also, I like Rod's idea of using this as a warmup since it will get you familiar with the precise speed of the rails and the cloth.

Practicing this out is kind of like target pool, except using a "real life" layout, where the target is a small skinny triangle and you have to first make a decision about your route. Any APA 2's through 5's (or equivalents) willing to try this layout and report their results?