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L.S. Dennis
02-05-2003, 07:08 PM
When I was just a kid I used to sneak up the steps to the old Palace Billiards in San Francisco. I say sneak because I couldn't been more than about 13 or 14 years old and I'm not sure if I would been allowed in there legally but nobody seemed to mind. Once in it was like being in a forbidden world to a suburban upper middle class kid from the penninsula.

I remember the was this bald headed guy who played wonderful straight pool in there whose name was Joe Bachelor. Later on in time Sax DalPorto told me that Joe had great patterns but would always fold when he played one of the top pros like Mosconi or Caras.

Anybody else remember this guy?

Popcorn
02-05-2003, 08:51 PM
No, but I remember Sax DalPorto. I can't think of his wife's name, may have been Evelyn, but she was a good player. Sax did a nice exhibition. Is he or his wife still alive? That is why I like reading this board, you never know who is out there reading.

L.S. Dennis
02-06-2003, 01:30 AM
Popcorn
Popcorn,
Sax's wife was named Evelyn and unfortunately they are both playing pool in heaven at this moment. Sax was one of the best players here in the Bay Area during the sixties and seventies and is missed and remembered by many around here.
Where did you happen to see him?

Popcorn
02-06-2003, 04:43 AM
I believe I first met him at the US open in Chicago early 70s. I don't think he was playing, his wife may have been in the ladies division. I saw him do a few exhibitions at a department store. I don't think they even sold billiard equipment, but he drew quite a few people for the exhibition. Now that I think about, Babe Cranfield did a show there also as well as M. Fats. It was strange, they would set up a table in the store every so often and have pool exhibition. Maybe someone involved with the store liked pool.

Wally_in_Cincy
02-06-2003, 08:12 AM
IIRC George Fels (used to post here a lot) has written about this guy. Maybe he will see this thread.

L.S. Dennis
02-06-2003, 11:29 AM
Just for fun I did a google search this morning and sure enough it turned up this little blub.

New York Joe Bachelor spent the last part of his life in San Francisco conferring nightly with Bud Harris and Jimmy Lee. Before moving west he showed a shot involving three pairs of balls to Myron Zownir,who later expanded it to five pairs

#### leonard
02-06-2003, 01:27 PM
I thought Joe was from NYC area I had heard that name. Myron Zownir was the first person I met in the pool world whose name was from outer space. Everyone would love to play someone named Myron Zownir[wrong].A very unique person if my memory serves me.####

HOWARD
02-06-2003, 02:27 PM
L.S.
I remember Sax. I can remember a bald head guy up at the Palace Billiards (when it was on North side of Market St.)
I do believe he would have been there. All the action was at the 1028 club. Where the likes of Sleepy Bob, Slim Pickens, Trees, Boston Blackie, Ears, Rodiguez, Park Bowl Jr., Oakie Sam and countless other would square off.

I have always counted as a great priviledge in my life to know Sax DalPorto. I watch run 100 in out straight pool countless times. I also know that Sax kept many kids from trouble with his golden personality and his gift at the table. Including me.

Howard

L.S. Dennis
02-06-2003, 03:41 PM
Howard,
Yes I was referring to Palace when it was on the north side of Market Street. I'm sure the bald headed guy you saw was Joe Bachelor up there.

A couple of questiones, was the 1028 club the same as the old Cochran's location if so I too as a kid saw some great playing up there. And also I do remember a player up there who they called "Blackie" I thought his full nickname was "Hayward Blackie". Could this have been the same "Boston Blackie" that you refer to?

Yes Sax was a fine man I met him through Dorothy Wise back in the sixties.

HOWARD
02-06-2003, 06:44 PM
L.S.
Cochran's was the official name. (By the way I did go in there one Friday night) and I saw a group piled up around the one billiard table the 1028 had. And a gentlemen with a shock of white hair was playing another gentlemen. They play very well indeed. I was told it was Welker Cochran or possibly his son - a long time ago and I do not have a firm memory of it.

Boston Blackie was old man in his eighties in the earlie Sixties. Sax told me he had never worked - the government did not know he existed - He did not have SS number/card.

I also saw Dorthy play at Sax's place in Burlingame with Evelyn.

Also just pop into my mind, a road man named Pots and Pans out of Florida drop in one evening looking for Sax. He left a couple of thousand light - and most of it went to Sax's customers because he was fading the whole room - per game, nine ball and jack up one pocket. Bye the bye the best player I saw coming out of the East bay was Tony Bowles.

Best regards,

Howard

L.S. Dennis
02-07-2003, 01:02 AM
Great memories and stories. I've always said if those walls at Cochran's(or the 1028) could speak what stories they could tell! Tugboat was always a permanent fixture up there as well.

Scott Lee
02-07-2003, 01:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HOWARD:</font><hr>

Also just pop into my mind, a road man named Pots and Pans out of Florida drop in one evening looking for Sax. He left a couple of thousand light - and most of it went to Sax's customers because he was fading the whole room - per game, nine ball and jack up one pocket.

Howard<hr /></blockquote>

Howard...Pots &amp; Pans, aka Bernard "Bunny" Rogoff, lives in California. I saw him playing the in senior division of the tournaments at the last L.A. Billiard Expo, in 2001.
You also can see him on the AccuStat tapes of the 8-ball tournament. He is wearing a wig and a tux, and dressed like Charlie Chaplin, sitting out in the audience. LOL Jack White told me stories about Pots &amp; Pans.

Scott Lee

HOWARD
02-07-2003, 11:13 AM
Scott,
That night,Pots and Pans was dressed like Fidel Castro, including gray fatigues, black beard, and cigars that came out of silver tubes. (The reason I remember the cigar so well, was when He and is partner started running low on cash is partner would go out to their car and come back with
a silver tube - but the tube had cash in it all rolled up. Evelyn was holding the bets from all the kids coming up with their one dollar or fifty cents etc., and the partner putting their stake on that particular game.

He shot with a one piece old Hoppy (he brought himself-referring to Pots and Pans) I remember asking Sax about it later - and he said it was better cue because it had no joint so it was stronger. In any case all the kids plus a few older guys made money of course so did Sax.
Howard

Popcorn
02-07-2003, 11:42 AM
I knew Bunny very well and often went bar hustling with him, we hung in the same poolroom for a while. He was at one time a very good player, I think his game really suffered from all the bar hustling. He did the whole package, He often pretended to be drunk and was very convincing. He liked uniforms and dressed like waiter a lot of the time. The name pots &amp; pans I think came from one time around 1970 when he had a deal with Bernie Shwartz (sp?) selling cookware out of his car. I sold it also as did almost everybody in the pool room. It was amazing, it was a 31 piece set in a box with a printed price tag of $99.00 on the outside. You could walk into a place and sell the stuff for $20. to $30. a set with your eyes closed the stuff looked so good. It only cost me $11.00 a set. I don't know how they made the stuff so cheap. I was a little lazy, but some guys made a lot of money selling the stuff. Danny D made something like $30,000 or more in just a few months with it. Back to what I said about Bunny's game, it really went down from always playing suckers. I was in with him a few times against some good players he should have beat, but he could not get there. The pressure seemed to bother him. I think he had lost his nerve it seemed. He is defiantly a character though.

Scott Lee
02-07-2003, 03:08 PM
Popcorn...Jack told me of hustling with Bunny a decade before that, so the Pots n Pans name was being used by him long before 1970. However, to my knowledge, you're right about how he got the name! LOL Amazing how they could make that cooking set so CHEAP...but then you usually get what you pay for! LMAO

Scott

Popcorn
02-07-2003, 08:24 PM
Just for the fun of it I did a google search to see if there would be anything amazingly there was. It is a story about Bernie, with a mention of Bunny. It says Bernie got into the cook ware business in 1969 which jives with my memory. I am sure it was after that date when Bunny began selling cook ware. If they called him pots &amp; pans before that, I would not know why. Is this Internet unbelievable or what.
http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20021117brian101col2p2.asp

Scott Lee
02-08-2003, 02:36 AM
Popcorn...Good article, but it is about Bernie Schwartz, not Bunny Rogoff. The article said Schwartz got into the cookware biz in 1969. Rogoff was known as Pots n Pans, and long before 1969! Jack White hustled with him in the late 50's and early 60's. He told me about seeing Bunny literally with pots and pans strung over his shoulders!

Scott

Popcorn
02-08-2003, 08:38 AM
Could be,I only met Bunny about that time. Bernie was the source for all the stuff we sold and Bernie and Bunny were long time friends, leading me to draw the conclusion.

#### leonard
02-10-2003, 08:13 AM
I think the Brains of the Ovenware outfit was a pool hustler from Detroit who played pool in the Private Club. The only name I ever heard him called was "Jew Paul". I know that it was not a derogatory nickname because everyone had a good word for Paul.####

lucian9
06-08-2007, 08:42 AM
Joe worked for a short period of time in the early '70's at Alec Liu's "Country Club Billiards" on Van Ness at Washington in San Francisco. He gave lessons and demonstrations, often playing "straight" vs. Dalton Leong or "1-pocket" vs Don Lim, with his unique slip stroke. When Alec opened "The Hustler" night club near the Playboy Club in 1972, Joe gave evening trick shot demonstrations and played "straight" matches vs. a girl named "Georgia". I don't remember her last name. I was working for Alec at the time and got to know Joe at that stage in his life as a quiet, very affable gentleman. He always wore a suit and a "hounds tooth" hat. He picked the date for my first wedding by breaking a rack and using the number of the first ball to be pocketed. He gave the bride away at the ceremony. I wll always remember Joe as a wonderful man with some of the best stories I ever heard. He often spoke of WWII USO tours with Mosconi.

071838
06-12-2007, 08:23 AM
Yes, George knows about this guy. His real name was Joe Bachel, and he was the night man at the famous NY room McGirr's before he came to Chicago to take the same job with the downtown Bensinger's. I used to end dates early so I could rush downtown and watch him practice. He was Chicago's version of NY's Mike Eufemia, a truly remarkable practice player who could barely compete at all (Eufemia played well for money but fell apart in tournaments). Joe Bachel died in '71, in San Francisco. GF

Deeman3
06-12-2007, 11:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> ...Pots &amp; Pans, aka Bernard "Bunny" Rogoff, lives in California. I saw him playing the in senior division of the tournaments at the last L.A. Billiard Expo, in 2001.
You also can see him on the AccuStat tapes of the 8-ball tournament. He is wearing a wig and a tux, and dressed like Charlie Chaplin, sitting out in the audience. LOL Jack White told me stories about Pots &amp; Pans.

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">

Scott,

Bunny was dressed up in the Chaplin Garb at Derby City as well this year. He has a nice jacket that has printed on the back, "I'm old now, I need the 7, 8 and break, really!" I made me a shirt just like it.</font color>

Drop1
06-12-2007, 08:00 PM
I don't know how old you are,but I worked as a Bellboy,in a semi-flop house hotel,not far from Palace Billards,in the late fifties,I spent many a happy hour getting sober at the Palace. I watched some great action,and didn't know what I was watching. Look up idiot in the dictionary,I think thats my picture.

Scott Lee
06-13-2007, 09:42 PM
Dee...Yep, I saw him there too! His "nephew" was sort of watching out for him, and had a ticket for him to go to the 1 Pocket hall of fame dinner. He got grouchy because people weren't paying enough attention to him and skipped it. When he showed up after dinner, he tried to get Grady to let him talk at the podium...Grady said "Nope!", knowing that you wouldn't be able to get the mike back! LOL Bunny got pissed and left the room. I wasn't surprised...lots of 80+ yr old guys are grumps (my own dad was one). The Miller Lite jacket I've seen him wear for YEARS says..."Scout's honor, I need the last two." It was from the old Miller Lite tournaments of the 80's, and he must of had it embroidered on the back. Definitely a cranky old duck!

Scott Lee

Deeman3
06-14-2007, 03:50 PM
Yes,

Later Grady was playing one of his nine ball matches and Bunny came up and gave him grief over the HOF incident. Talk about grouchy, a guy is trying to concentrate on a game and getting grief from someone about something that happened a few nights back! Last year, Pot's came about one second from Tori decking him but it would be a shame to see a 100 pound woman beat up an old guy so I made her back off. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif