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View Full Version : Varying The Amount Of Draw On The Cueball



TomBrooklyn
02-08-2003, 02:09 PM
Getting the right amount of draw consistantly requires a considerable amount of skill.

To vary how far you draw the cueball, do you:

1. Mainly aim the cuetip as low as possible and vary the stroke speed? or

2. Mainly vary how far below center you hit with the cue tip?

3. Adjust both for every draw shot?

4. Say a short prayer before each draw shot?

5. Other?

Sid_Vicious
02-08-2003, 02:44 PM
Number 1. I only vary position vertically for stuns and stops...sid

Rod
02-08-2003, 02:51 PM
Tom,
My aim is near as low as possible and vary stroke speed. There obviously is not one way though because at times I have to vary the amount of english. Speed of stroke is always a factor. Prayers, well I've used a few of them at some point. Now I have to rely on ability. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

02-08-2003, 03:32 PM
Usually #1 and very often for #4. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

snipershot
02-08-2003, 04:07 PM
#1, and I think everybody's relied on #4 a few times for those tough draw shots.

Chris Cass
02-08-2003, 04:09 PM
Hi Tom,

Very interesting post. There's only two spots of know of on the cb. I would have to say the amount of follow-through and the speed variance that matters mostly but there's also the angle in which you hit these spots too.

Say for instance the power draw vs. getting from one end of the table to the other. How fast the ball travels while in reverse, to get position or breaking up clusters. The amount of time the cb takes for the draw to take coensides(sp) with the speed IMHO. Experimenting with drawing the ball is a good thing. Especially, for the beginners (under your speed of course), they can draw out of trouble. When their, position play isn't that strong. Also, IMHO. lol Like I don't get into a Pickle once in awhile. hahahaha

Regards,

C.C.~~watch me draw out of this trouble this Monday. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TonyM
02-08-2003, 04:58 PM
The general advice often given to most novice players is to aim as low as possible and to vary the stroke speed to change the amount of draw.

The same advice is also given with regards to follow.

But I feel that a more advanced technique is to try and keep a near constant stroke speed, and vary the precise placement of the tip on the ball. This way, a very accurate stroke speed zone (it's not a single exact speed, but a narrow range) can be finely honed. Every player will find a range of stroke speeds that produces the most consistent and accurate results.

Snooker players use the "stun-run through" shot (a follow shot that is not struck very far above center, but with good speed) to produce accurate cue ball control when using follow. They stay within a consistent and accurate range of stroke speeds, to both enhance the accuracy of the pot itself (the cueball and object ball doesn't roll-off as much) and of the stroke delivery.

The same can be done using draw.

However, it does take some practice and time to learn.

The problem (I didn't want to say "drawback" Lol!) with hitting the cue ball as low as possible and varying the stroke speed is that it can be very speed sensitive. A small increase in speed can produce a relatively large increase in draw distance.

Conversley, a small increase in tip height will likely produce a less sensitive change in draw distance.

That said, I tend to do both depending on the circumstance.

Tony
-how's that for straddling the fence?.....

Rod
02-08-2003, 06:07 PM
Hi Chris,
Interesting reply. Yes the amount of time it takes for low english to take or follow for that matter determines if you can pull off any given shot. Making the shot is important but if the c/b reacts too soon you can be in trouble such as too straight of an angle comming back. Or vise versa if it reacts to slow the angle can be changed creating a wider angle than wanted. Of course knowing when and how and why the c/b reacts as it does is a great advantage in position play not to mention getting yourself out of trouble. LOl Since I found trouble so many times playing, I think I've figured most of the ways out! LOL

There are so many combinations of speed, follow thru and cue angle in the perfect sense, that it takes to have the c/b react exactly as you planned.

I think players would do themselves a great service by using a constant angle (whatever they choose) and vary the above factors to see the difference reaction. Changing to a different angle produces similar results even though the cue ball comes back at a wider or narrow angle depending on the original angle of the shot. Hope this makes sense to everyone, I can explain more if needed. Anyway there is a lot more to it than just saying I hit max low or top and vary speed of stroke. The best answer to Toms question probably is #3 using the variables of english, speed of stroke, follow through and cue angle. LOL Ok I'm hungry now and a little shakey. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif CC, may I suggest you use a nice smooth level stroke, med slow speed, with a full follow through on Monday? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Of course I hope the Doc does the same! I'm sure he will. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rod

Vince S.
02-08-2003, 07:51 PM
One other thing that has to be factored in is what type of cloth your shooting on(860, 760, barroom cloth). Also weather that cloth is new or well worn.

You just can't use one generic stroke for all conditions. The same stroke that brings you back 18" on one table, might scratch you on another.

Personally, I always try to hit the same area on the cue ball(about a tip up from bottom). Then I adjust the force of the stoke based on conditions and position needed.

02-08-2003, 08:30 PM
if forced to use a number it's probably be 3. texture everything.

seems like recently, in a fit of self-improvment, i've been trying to look at the c.b. last on some practice shots just to make sure i'm hitting it where i think i am. more often than not, what's happening is that i'm hitting it right where i thought i was aiming but getting more than i expected. i'm getting that i don't really know where i should touch the c.b. till i've established the cue speed (real, not planned) at the end of the final stroke.then i'll texture the tip placement. having shot now over 40 years, i think i've developed an understanding of the relationship between speed and spin and am working on refining my blending of those 2 variables all the way around the c.b.

sure, i can do the drills of just changing speed or spin but that's not the way i shoot. the shot really tells you what it wants.

dan

Tom_In_Cincy
02-08-2003, 09:55 PM
#3

The draw shot is one of the most interesting shots. Many players see this shot early in their playing experience and are in "wonderment" of how magically the cue ball does this unexpected change of direction. IMO its one of the shots that makes players want to know more about the game.

Controlling whitey is a very fasinating aspect of this game. The players that do it best are the best.

eg8r
02-08-2003, 11:36 PM
I choose... [ QUOTE ]
1. Mainly aim the cuetip as low as possible and vary the stroke speed? <hr /></blockquote> I do not have much luck with choosing different places on the cueball so I just go to the extreme. This is also a big reason why I miss a lot of shots when using left or right, but hopefully one day I will overcome this issue. LOL

eg8r

bigbro6060
02-09-2003, 02:10 AM
there is one other thing which i don't think has been mentioned and that is that even if tip placement and stroke speed are constant, the amount of draw can be varied by the length of the followthrough

Rod
02-09-2003, 03:03 AM
Well bro, that is a little misleading. If you hit the c/b at 5 mph with the same tip placement and speed the c/b will draw the same whether it is a 4" follow through or a 6" follow through. The 6" just looks a little smoother.

SPetty
02-09-2003, 07:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Like I don't get into a Pickle once in awhile. hahahaha <hr /></blockquote>HAHAHAHA /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Yep, I remember Chris having trouble with a Pickle in Vegas last year... HAHAHAHA

bluewolf
02-09-2003, 07:43 AM
I have been using #1 for draw but not that good at it yet. I can draw one diamond back or three or 4 but have yet to be able to get it to come back 2 diamonds on a consistent basis.

Am still experimenting on methods for draw with tangent but lean more towards tips below center with 2.5 rail speed.

Kind of an aside and maybe I am chicken /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif but i do not use techniques in matches which I am not proficient in yet unless I have no other shot.

blu

Rich R.
02-09-2003, 10:32 AM
I have used numbers 1 through 3 with varying degrees of success. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif I always use number 4. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Seriously, Scott Lee recommended #1 to me and that is what I have been trying to do since. That way, you only have one variable, stoke speed, to control. Numbers 2 and 3 require the control of multiple variables.

Popcorn
02-09-2003, 11:03 AM
All of the above. Short draw control, is a real key in the close up game. In such games as straight pool and one pocket, it is essential. Anybody can draw the ball six feet, it is drawing the ball six inches that quite often counts. Moving the cueball around close up, is one of the drills I always do during every practice session. It will win you just as many games as coming with the big shot. Especially important to the bar table player playing 8-ball. The little things, win you the game. After you make that big shot, you still have to get out.

dddd
02-09-2003, 09:03 PM
i am like several posts here already.
i put the que on the table and hit it low, low, low
speed is the key to move it small or large
and prayers are always ok when the distance and location provides the need.

MarkUrsel
02-10-2003, 09:03 PM
I vary both, all the time. I basically try to think of it as three levels to hit the cue ball at; stun draw, medium draw, Electrolux draw. I also vary the power from soft to medium to parking lot.

It's really all about feel for the shot, and there's no substitute for experience and practice to develop that feel. One of these days, I'll have it myself! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kato
02-11-2003, 11:55 AM
I thought that was a Bobby Pickle reference.

Kato~~~remembers Chris telling me he can't believe this guy is freewheeling, making everything, position not a factor.