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Karatemom
02-08-2003, 09:35 PM
It has been pointed out to me that the distance that I place the cue tip from the edge of the cb varies constantly and that is a huge factor in the inconsistency of my game. I do understand that if you hold the tip too far from the cb, you're not hitting the cb at the exact spot you're aiming at. However, I am so afraid I'm going to hit the cb accidentally if I get too close. My game is bad enough without a foul every time I get up to shoot, LOL.

I have vowed to work on this. Getting the tip closer to the cb when aiming and stroking. CC has told me that I should be able to see the reflection of the tip in the ball. That's just sooooooo close. Would like some views and/or opinions about this subject. What do you do? How close do you get to the cb? And how in the heck do you manage not to hit the cb by mistake?

Heide

Cueless Joey
02-08-2003, 10:08 PM
My tip is pretty far but I still see the reflection of my ferrule on the cb. I have no problems shooting long straight-in shots. I think the follow-thru matters most.
Tip distance nitpicking I think is just that. Nitpicking.

Karatemom
02-09-2003, 01:19 AM
Chris says to say that my tip is approximately 3" from the cb and my elbow is at 90 at that time. That affects my follow through. His is about 1/2" away, consistently.

I know what nitpicking is. Chris nitpicks me all the time!!! LOL

Heide ~ guesses she has some work to do /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Rod
02-09-2003, 02:20 AM
Hi Heide,
First of all it is important. If the cue tip is a distance from the c/b then it is just a generalized aim point. If say your 1" from the cue ball, in that distance with less than a perfect stroke you can hit above or below what you perceived to be your aim point. I say perceived because your tip was never close enough to establish a true contact point. As you know hitting to high or low even with a perfect stroke does not move whitey where you expected.

For instance, if the o/b and the c/b are two feet apart straight in. You need to draw the ball 1 foot. You shoot the shot with two tips of low. A soft slow stroke gets you that 1 foot. Should you shoot the same shot and mis hit the c/b by 1/2 tip higher that same stroke only yeilds 8", your hooked. Just a simple example.

The trick is in your set up. Having your arm position consistant. You can have any length bridge just keep your arm a constant. Set up at say 1/2" or a tad bit farther away and learn the feel of where your arm returns to address. Of course eye hand and seeing the distance is part of the program. IMO there is not any forward momentium of the cue, your easing the tip in for contact point. This is especially true on the final stroke. I have a slight pause when this point is established on the final stroke.

What you can do is use a measuring device, such as a little 1/2" block of wood or similar placed against the c/b. That way you touch the wood you'll know your within 1/2". You can practice that on the kitchen table. That should give you a better feel for the distance. I don't know how far away you really are but that should help. Tighten it up to 3/8" or 1/4" when you feel more comfortable.

What your doing is establishing your arm position at impact. When your arm returns to that same position you will have struck the c/b exactly where you intended to.
Remember the c/b gets farther away ( even though it hasn't moved) when you go above or below center ball.
Take it in steps when you feel comfortable move in a little closer.

I use to have no problem at 1/4" but realistically I'm probably at 3/8" or a tiny bit more since my close up vision is not what it once was. It is very rare that I foul the c/b. That only can happen when i'm not paying attention.

Just so you know that is very common. I have a couple of friends that are fair players. They swing the cue back and forth easily an inch or better from the c/b. I've said, where are you aiming to hit the c/b? They might say low or top but you sure can't see it from where I'm standing! "When" they do hit one of those strokes to high or low, they are amazed yelling whoa slow down etc. "When" they hit one closer to the center then their saying, well I hit it with draw or follow why didn't the c/b come back etc. Well you know the answer. LOL Hope this helps a little.

~~~ rod does not see the reflection, but it's there. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rod
02-09-2003, 02:45 AM
Well that is in field goal distance. LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Karatemom
02-09-2003, 02:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Well that is in field goal distance. LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Heide /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Very funny

Karatemom
02-09-2003, 02:58 AM
Geez, that's exactly what Chris said. I guess he's not full of hot air after all, hahahahaha.

It's amazing all the fine points in this game other than just pocketing a ball.

Chris said I'm about 3" away. I feel like it's more like 2" away, but he's a better judge. I do change it depending on the shot. Why, I don't know. Bad habit I guess. I'll have to start concentrating on being consistent on every shot, holding the tip the same distance each time, no matter what shot I'm taking.

Thanks!!

Heide

Voodoo Daddy
02-09-2003, 06:53 AM
Heide...your perception of distance isnt off, its just easier to see just how far you really are from the side where CC is. Try this...practice slow stroking your cue towards the cb as close as you can get without touching it, you'll be surprised just how close you can get. Developing that muscle memory isnt hard, you just gotta work on it.

Voodoo~~~~looks like he's gonna foul on every stroke and feels CC 1/2" is too far away!!! HAHAHAHAHA /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bluewolf
02-09-2003, 07:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Karatemom:</font><hr> It has been pointed out to me that the distance that I place the cue tip from the edge of the cb varies constantly and that is a huge factor in the inconsistency of my game. I do understand that if you hold the tip too far from the cb, you're not hitting the cb at the exact spot you're aiming at. However, I am so afraid I'm going to hit the cb accidentally if I get too close. My game is bad enough without a foul every time I get up to shoot, LOL.

I have vowed to work on this. Getting the tip closer to the cb when aiming and stroking. CC has told me that I should be able to see the reflection of the tip in the ball. That's just sooooooo close. Would like some views and/or opinions about this subject. What do you do? How close do you get to the cb? And how in the heck do you manage not to hit the cb by mistake?

Heide <hr /></blockquote>

When I first started in apa 6 mo ago I accidentally hit the cb with the cue a couple of times. Then I started keeping the cue back like you because I was afraid of a foul. Based on what others are saying here, it would be good to get the cue closer to the cb.

I get the feeling that you are a very good player. Perhaps this fear is unfounded. I am wondering if you got in this habit when you did not have control and now that you do. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

blu

socrates
02-09-2003, 07:58 AM
If the observation is that the tip is three inches away I would have to agree that this is to far. I happen to be of the opinion that the closer your tip is to the cue ball and the exact point of contact you want to hit on the cue ball at rest the better. Certainly, there are some top level players that play quite well doing something else.

Any time you are going to make a change in your game you need to be willing to leave your comfort zone.

This may sound funny buy I think the quickest way to get where you need to be is to practice by starting with your tip TOUCHING the cue ball. If you are making an adjustment go to the extreme first.

Go through your normal preshot routine and set up with your tip touching the cue ball. After you do your pre-shot routine enough that the tip is touching the cue ball and you do not have to exagerate anything to accomplish this in your set up then do the same thing but back off about 3/8 to 1/4 inch and go from there.

I would suggest you actually shoot a very simple shot as you go through this adjustment session described above.

Heide you may also want to use the practice aid made out of cloth (described on page 7 of Black Belt Billiards). This is like a template for your bridge length and I use it from time to time to help program my bridge length into memory.

Hope you find the above helpful.

Will be thinkng of you and Chris tomorrow.

God Bless and take care.

Fred Agnir
02-09-2003, 08:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Karatemom:</font><hr> Chris says to say that my tip is approximately 3" from the cb and my elbow is at 90 at that time. That affects my follow through. His is about 1/2" away, consistently.

I know what nitpicking is. Chris nitpicks me all the time!!! LOL

Heide ~ guesses she has some work to do /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>
IMO, the distance at set (at the cueball) is a crucial variable. If you are at 90 at 3", then you are on the rise and or slowdown when you actually hit the cueball.

Most top players will have that tip very near the cueball at the set position, 1/2" or less on most shots.

Fred

randyg
02-09-2003, 09:06 AM
Hi Karatemom: Sounds like you need to install some P.E.P (Personal Eye Pattern) in your game. The next time we meet I will help you establish your natural eye pattern. P.E.P automatically takes care of the problem of tip fouling and improves ball pocketing. Simple to learn, easy to perform.....randyg

Karatemom
02-09-2003, 10:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> IMO, the distance at set (at the cueball) is a crucial variable. If you are at 90 at 3", then you are on the rise and or slowdown when you actually hit the cueball.

Most top players will have that tip very near the cueball at the set position, 1/2" or less on most shots.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

As I sit here reading your post to Chris, he says "See, I told you, that's exactly what I said".

Thanks for the reinforcement, Fred.

Heide

Karatemom
02-09-2003, 10:49 AM
I think it might be time to get the old videocamera out again. Seeing my mistakes on film definitely helps my game.

Heide

Karatemom
02-09-2003, 10:50 AM
I'm no judge of my own game. That is for others to decide. This is one aspect of my game I definitely MUST work on.

Heide

Karatemom
02-09-2003, 10:55 AM
Okay, time to get the book out again. Don't know how much time I'll have to spend at the ph, but I can practice on the kitchen table, /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

I find everything you, and all my other friends here, say extremely helpful to my game. Even though Chris is my "coach", it is sometimes easier to hear the same thing from someone else. Just more reinforcement.

Thanks, Steve.

Heide

Karatemom
02-09-2003, 11:01 AM
You're very gracious, Randy. The only eye pattern that I use now is:

1. Look at o/b.
2. Look at c/b, stroke 2x.
3. Look at o/b.
4. Shoot.

It is part of my pre-shot routine.

Thank you for your kind offer. I will take you up on that in Vegas, unless you're planning a trip to the QC, LOL.

Heide

#### leonard
02-10-2003, 01:08 PM
Some great players Canton,Cranfield aimed the cuetip at the cloth then raised their cue at the final delivery and hit the cueball, this gave them a better x to hit because the cue tip wasn't blocking their aim. Give my best to Chris, I am 33 years without a smoke. ####

TomBrooklyn
02-10-2003, 01:22 PM
Usually when I get down on the shot I take a couple of fast and loose strokes to sort of warm up and settle into position. Sometimes my cue tip, moving very rapidly before my body has even fully come to rest, comes so close to the cue ball before I even realize it that I surprise myself. I've never hit the cue ball though and I don't know how I do it.

On one hand, I feel like I ought to be more careful, but on the other hand, It's never been a problem. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif It's kind of amazing since I don't consiously place my bridge hand exactly the same distance from the cue ball on every shot and I'm not consiously thinking about where on the butt my other hand is holding the cuestick. My stick has no wrap so I don't have that for a reference.

On my follow up strokes I usually bring the cue tip quite close to the cueball and I've rarely, if ever, touched it. =Tom

Kato
02-10-2003, 03:25 PM
I'm easily inside of 1/2" on all shots. I know this because I foul more than any living human being, especially when my mind wanders.

Kato

bluewolf
02-10-2003, 04:45 PM
Thanks Heidi for bringing this up. I went to the table and tried to measure (unsuccessfully) how far away the tip was. I asked ww and he said 'it is just fine' so I guess I must have improved. It was too far away in pool school in oct, I know that. I did try to get it closer yesterday and I tapped the cb. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

blu

arn3
02-10-2003, 08:26 PM
i think it is important that the tip be in contact with the cb at the moment of impact. if not, then it means you have missed the cb entirely, and it will have traveled nowhere, causing a scratch.