PDA

View Full Version : Tell A Newbie Or Not, Ferrule Damage



Sid_Vicious
02-10-2003, 05:04 PM
I mentioned to an older gent the other day that his tip was getting near ready for replacing, his grandson bought him the cue for Christmas, and he was ALREADY shrouding the top of his ferrule with shroomed tip material. I assume he got a soft tip with this non expensive cue, and I also guess that he and his grandson shoot a lot, but neither seemed "in the general know" about tip replacement. I mentioned I did tips for $15 a pop and the younger man gazed at the tip on his cue, put a finger on the ferrule and asked, "Do you replace ALL of the tip?" He obviously figured the white part was replaceable as well. Regardless I dropped the subject, and then I bumped back into them this past Saturday but did not mention the tip again. Honestly speaking folks, this ferrule will begin to be destroyed very soon, you could hear it getting close. My decision was to leave well enough alone since they seemed put off a little, I guess maybe they felt I was "working them" for business. What would you do? I'm sure they will continue to be there most every Saturday...sid

woody_968
02-10-2003, 06:02 PM
It's hard to say what I would do without seeing how they reacted to the first comments. If they are receptive at all I would really try to give them a little information. Sometimes the things that keep people participating in new past times (golf - pool - etc.etc) is the willingness of people to help them understand the games and equipment and enjoy them more.
If you think they feel you are just trying to "sell them" assure them you dont have to be the one to do it, you just dont want to see them mess up there new cues.

P.S. Are you the same Sid that used to play on Kali's Virtual Pool servers?

SPetty
02-10-2003, 07:23 PM
Hi Sid,

Please don't let these newbies screw up their "non expensive" cues just because you don't want to feel "pushy" or whatever. Not every newbie has the benefit of the CCB like I do, and there's an awful lot of knowledge that most people just don't know. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Please help them learn what you know about the care and feeding of their new cues. They'll appreciate you for it.

Even if they think you're "working them" for the business, if they give in to you, they'll soon learn that you were, in fact, looking out for their best interests and you'll have customers for life (not that you're working them for the business or anything... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Scott Lee
02-10-2003, 08:15 PM
sid...I would give them another chance, and like Susan and Woody said...give them a little info, without feeling like they have to use you for a repair. Inform them of the difference between the tip and the ferrule...what each does, and how it works. Tell them that when the sidewall of the tip becomes thin like a dime (or is badly mushroomed, like you described), it is time to have the tip replaced. Failure to do this now, may result in splitting or shattering the shaft, necessitating spending a lot more than the cost of a tip. Explain that many people and places do this kind of simple repair, and suggest somewhere like Hawleys...then mention that the cost will likely be the same or more than if you do it for them; plus they have to take it in and go get it. You will be happy to take it from them and deliver it back to them at the poolhall! You certainly have my permission to print this out and give it to them...from me!

Scott Lee

TomBrooklyn
02-11-2003, 03:43 AM
Since he asked you a question, I would assume he was at least somewhat interested. I would have awnsered his questions about the tip and the ferrule. That's not being pushy, thats being helpful.

The purpose of a business is to provide something that people need or want. Sometimes you have to educate the customer or potential customer because they might not even realize something is wrong. They are not usually experts in the field that the business person is. Much business can be generated this way. Advising can be done in a friendly, matter of fact way that lets the potential customer decide if they want the product or service.

No need to be pushy, ...unless your selling used cars or vacuum cleaners I guess. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif Lol. =Tom

Sid_Vicious
02-11-2003, 08:12 AM
You might have just given me a conversation opener Tom, and yet I now begin to wonder if the younger guy was authentic or sarcastic with his remark about the whole tip after hearing me state $15. I watched him play a little last Saturday and he wasn't bad, and even had a positional idea of where he wanted whitie at times. But I may take your advice and bring it up to the grandson, using the "whole tip" as a topic and go from there. The thing I don't want to do is create an unfriendly barrier by seeming to be pushy about it. I'll also suggest the in-house guy who does tips, but he's seldom there these days. Maybe that will help. Bottom line is I'd like to at least let the guy know what will result in his ferrule of his X-mas gift if much time is put on it like it is..sid~~~I do a better job though, even considered doing it complimentary, just because ;-)

Wally_in_Cincy
02-11-2003, 08:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr>

....even considered doing it complimentary, just because <hr /></blockquote>

That's what I was going to suggest. Give 'em a freebie. When he sees how nice the new tip looks he'll understand where you were coming from. Just don't put a hard tip on if he's used to a softie.

Troy
02-11-2003, 09:35 AM
When I have that situation, I gently suggest that the present ferrule can be saved if the tip is replaced very soon (NOW), but waiting will cost $XX additional to replace the ferrule.

Troy

Wally_in_Cincy
02-11-2003, 10:30 AM
Not really talking about your case, but some people just don't realize. A guy I play on a team with (He is a good player) bought a Meucci a couple years ago. After a few months the sidewall of his tip was down to maybe 1/16" max.

This guy uses a lot of draw and every time you could hear that "tink". It just made me cringe. After about 2 or 3 months I finally convinced him to get it replaced. Afterwards he couldn't believe how much better it played. Some people just have to be convinced.

Tom_In_Cincy
02-11-2003, 11:07 AM
If I am familiar enough with the player (friend or aquaintence) I will offer my observation about the need to replace a tip. If I do not know the player and they ask, I will offer my opinion. Otherwise,, to each their own.

From years ago;
I know a guy that cuts his LePro in half before using it. He claims that the closer to the ferrule the harder it is, and he likes his tips hard. He also said that he discovered this about 10 years ago. I tend to argee with his ovservations. When I played with a LePro, it did seem to change from medium to hard with it got closer to the ferrule.

ShayneinDayton
02-11-2003, 11:07 AM
Just a suggestion but you might offer to replace the tip for free. If someone would have done that for me early on I'm sure they would have gotten all my future tip replacements. Just a thought.

Shayne

Icon of Sin
02-11-2003, 11:10 AM
I'd say let him learn the hard way and this is why, on the team we shot last wednesday on the APA league, there was a player who just had no respect for his cue at all. This guy simply had no clue. One time during his match he wanted to use draw, well instead of trying to keep the cue level, he jacks up when he draws and does this like stabbing downward motion. Well of course it did not work to his liking and out of rage he smacked the shaft down on the table. During his match I noticed a few other things about his cue too (Meucci cue, not a cheapie although he was a SL2). The wrap on his cue was coming off (it was like part wrapped aound the cue loosly and part dangling from it), and this isnt of recnet events, it was like that last session also, and his tip/ferrule seemed crack to from that non-solid sound also. some people just have no clue, no one on his team mentioned anything. this guy is gonna have to learn the hard way with the tip falling off in the middle of the match, afterall, who am i to tell him he should get his cue looked at?

Let the old man play that way, its a cheapie anyway, he would prolly be better off getting new semi-decent cue than getting it replaced. But thats just my newbie-ish opinion.

SpiderMan
02-11-2003, 01:16 PM
I'd guess it probably wasn't a Meucci if the wrap was coming undone, because the Meucci standard is to paint over their wraps. Of course, if he does enough whacking it on the table he might get most anything to come loose.

SpiderMan

02-11-2003, 01:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I'd guess it probably wasn't a Meucci if the wrap was coming undone, because the Meucci standard is to paint over their wraps. Of course, if he does enough whacking it on the table he might get most anything to come loose.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>I was thinking the same thing, Spidey -- I didn't think Meucci made cues with exposed wraps. That's why my 14 year old Meucci Original is still my favorite cue -- I like the appearance of a wrap, but can't stand the feel. Meucci gives you the best of both worlds, and although I don't care much for their current production line, the two Original customs that I've owned have been very good to me.

Not to hijack this thread, but are there any other custom cuemakers who coat their wraps like Meucci? I'm thinking of buying a new cue soon, but I would prefer a coated wrap.

David

Icon of Sin
02-11-2003, 01:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'd guess it probably wasn't a Meucci if the wrap was coming undone, because the Meucci standard is to paint over their wraps. Of course, if he does enough whacking it on the table he might get most anything to come loose.

<hr /></blockquote>

The local shop by me that sells cues (Meucci, schon, etc.etc.) will remove the coating from the wrap and re wrap it for you, i wondered the same thing whe I first saw it so this must be what he had done, the butt of the cue said meucci, no doubt about it. He more then likely got it from that pro-shop anyway...

No excuse for cue abuse... (hey that's catchy)

Fred Agnir
02-11-2003, 02:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Icon of Sin:</font><hr> The local shop by me that sells cues (Meucci, schon, etc.etc.) will remove the coating from the wrap and re wrap it for you, i wondered the same thing whe I first saw it so this must be what he had done, the butt of the cue said meucci, no doubt about it. He more then likely got it from that pro-shop anyway...

No excuse for cue abuse... (hey that's catchy) <hr /></blockquote>
All three of my Meucci cues that I've owned didn't have a urethane coating on the wrap. One was a custom order from Meucci, one I had rewrapped upon receipt, and the other didn't have the urethane as sold. If memory serves, one of the Meucci lines (a lower level) had no urethane over the wrap for a short period. Furthermore, I have to believe that Bob's original cues didn't have urethane on the wrap.

Fred

02-11-2003, 03:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>Furthermore, I have to believe that Bob's original cues didn't have urethane on the wrap.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>If by "original" you mean his EARLY cues, like from the 70's, you may be right. I haven't seen one up close. But I do know that as of his 80's custom models, the ones with "Meucci Originals" tattooed on the butt in small block letters as opposed to the later production models with the script logo, a large number if not majority had coated wraps. I've owned two of them, one from the early to mid-80's and one from the late 80's, and both were coated, as were all of the Meucci's I knew of at the time. So he has been doing it since the "Meucci Originals" days, if not his "truly original" days, and I thought that was one of the more unique characteristics of Meucci cues.

Oh, and BTW, my question still stands: are there other good cue makers who do this? Or is it an easy enough operation to do that most decent custom cue makers can do the same job without an exhorbitant increase in cost? When I buy another cue it won't be a Meucci as I don't care for the current production line, but I've grown very fond of the coated wrap.

David

cycopath
02-11-2003, 03:54 PM
We are a Meucci dealer. You can special order your cue without the finish over the wrap. Bob prefers the finished over wrap. He claims it gives you better control in your grip. I believe the only models that come without the finished over wrap is the Power Piston Series.
Meucci Originals were finished over also. Unless specified not to be from the factory.

cycopath
02-11-2003, 03:58 PM
Both custom cues I've had made for me (Jacoby and Putman) I had the respective maker finish over the wrap. And there was no extra cost.

02-11-2003, 04:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr> Both custom cues I've had made for me (Jacoby and Putman) I had the respective maker finish over the wrap. And there was no extra cost. <hr /></blockquote>Great, thanks! I've actually been looking over Jacoby's line and like what I've seen. I'm glad to hear that finishing over the wrap is no big deal -- I didn't really think it would be, but since the wrap would have to be inset I wasn't sure. I wish I could get my hands on a Jacoby to try out first, but unfortunately I don't live around many pool afficianados with a selection of custom cues. I may have to just take my chance on one pretty soon...

David

SpiderMan
02-11-2003, 04:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmorris68:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I'd guess it probably wasn't a Meucci if the wrap was coming undone, because the Meucci standard is to paint over their wraps. Of course, if he does enough whacking it on the table he might get most anything to come loose.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>I was thinking the same thing, Spidey -- I didn't think Meucci made cues with exposed wraps. That's why my 14 year old Meucci Original is still my favorite cue -- I like the appearance of a wrap, but can't stand the feel. Meucci gives you the best of both worlds, and although I don't care much for their current production line, the two Original customs that I've owned have been very good to me.

Not to hijack this thread, but are there any other custom cuemakers who coat their wraps like Meucci? I'm thinking of buying a new cue soon, but I would prefer a coated wrap.

David <hr /></blockquote>

David,

I'm with you, I also prefer that the handle feel the same regardless of where my hand lands. My Jacoby has no wrap, for a feel similar to my previous cue (Meucci). I'm currently waiting for a Mike Erwin custom with no wrap. When you have no wrap, the cuemaker must be careful to choose a very nice piece of handle wood. But to answer your question, I would expect that most cuemakers who do any custom work could spray over the wrap. I believe this is even an option in the Meuller's catalog as one of their standard refinish services.

SpiderMan

02-11-2003, 04:18 PM
David,

I'm in the same boat you are, don't have the opportunity to try out a Jacoby before I buy.

I asked for opinions a few days ago, if you didn't see that thread you might want to look back through the forum for it. The overwhelming response is that Jacoby makes a good cue.

I'm ordering one for sure, and maybe two. Just depends on the wife...

Dave

Scott Lee
02-11-2003, 10:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmorris68:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I'd guess it probably wasn't a Meucci if the wrap was coming undone, because the Meucci standard is to paint over their wraps. Of course, if he does enough whacking it on the table he might get most anything to come loose.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>I was thinking the same thing, Spidey -- I didn't think Meucci made cues with exposed wraps. That's why my 14 year old Meucci Original is still my favorite cue -- I like the appearance of a wrap, but can't stand the feel.

Not to hijack this thread, but are there any other custom cuemakers who coat their wraps like Meucci? I'm thinking of buying a new cue soon, but I would prefer a coated wrap.

David <hr /></blockquote>

David...Years ago, Meucci did NOT coat their wraps with the sprayed on stuff. I own one from 1972 that is just the linen wrap. NO other cuemakers (as far as I know) coat their wraps like Meucci does. The purpose of the wrap is to absorb the sweat from the grip hand. Coating the wrap defeats this purpose. If you want that "feel", buy a cue with NO wrap.

Scott Lee

02-11-2003, 11:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>David...Years ago, Meucci did NOT coat their wraps with the sprayed on stuff. I own one from 1972 that is just the linen wrap. NO other cuemakers (as far as I know) coat their wraps like Meucci does. The purpose of the wrap is to absorb the sweat from the grip hand. Coating the wrap defeats this purpose. If you want that "feel", buy a cue with NO wrap.

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>Thanks, Scott. Yeah, I figured it must have been the old Meucci's from that era that didn't normally come with coated wraps.

I understand why some people like wraps and what they're for (to absorb sweat and provide a non-slip grip). It's just that I don't need/want that -- my grip hand doesn't sweat uncontrollably, and I absolutely HATE the feel of a wrap under my hand. However, I do like the *look* of a wrap, hence with the Meucci I have the best of both worlds, the look I like plus the feel I like! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Since I've played with Meucci's for 15 years or so now, I've become accustomed to that feel. Also, the Meucci finish on the wrap has a very slight texture to it, just enough to feel that you are on the wrap area of the cue. Cues with no wrap at all don't have this same feel. I like it because it gives me a very subtle tactile clue where my hand is on the grip without looking at it, but isn't nearly as intrusive as an exposed wrap.

I'm hoping I can reproduce that same look and feel when I buy my next non-Meucci cue, as I have sworn off of the new Meucci's altogether.

David

Fran Crimi
02-12-2003, 12:14 AM
I have a suggestion, David. If you like the way a wrap looks but don't like the feel, you can buy a clear rubber-like wrap that slips right over the wrap. I very rarely see a 3-C player without one. They have them in colors too. I use them as well, and love the feel. Actually, I think a cloth wrap makes your hand slide more. I used to own a Meucci and loved that varnished feel where I could stay loose without my hand sliding all over the place. The rubber wrap works well for that too.

Fran

Rod
02-12-2003, 12:46 AM
Fran,
For the same reason you mentioned, I like a firm pressed linnen wrap. I hate the feeling of my hand being stuck. OTH the clear finish on wood or the slip-on rubber wrap is good for grip with hardly any pressure as you mentioned. I think something of that nature is good for the break, for me anyway.

Rod

02-12-2003, 08:46 AM
Thanks, Fran, I'll look into those wrap covers!

David

Fran Crimi
02-12-2003, 09:31 AM
It's great for breaking, Rod. I got myself one after I got a little too loose on the break a few times and sent the cue flying through the air. Then for my playing cue, I was working on my stroke and as an exercise I was trying to get my back hand looser than loose on certain shots, and let the cue do the work, but the cue was more than sliding in my hand...it was slipping out of my hand, so I tried the cover and it worked great. So for now, I like it. Who knows what next year will bring...

Fran