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View Full Version : How Much Time To Try An Experimental Tip?



Sid_Vicious
02-11-2003, 04:34 PM
I've been in various tip experiments and know people who have been in them as well, and it seems to me that these trial periods are almost never of any duration. Can a fair analysis of a tip be made in weeks of play,,,,I'm talking about those tips which give no unpleasant performance, better yet they produce well. If a producing tip is cut off in it's very early life, can it really be said that we now know that it is, or is not the tip we should decide to use as our regular tip? If a tip is making most of your balls and feels good, when should you call the experiment truly over? If a new experiment happens to cause replacement of a new, working tip, hasn't it just quashed some possible valuable, future knowledge about that performing tip you just whacked off???sid

Tom_In_Cincy
02-11-2003, 05:11 PM
Sid,

Soaking up all you can lately huh?.. you must have a pretty big goal set for yourself.

I can tell from my 2 hour practice routine if there is a problem with my new tip. My routine is designed to test my stroke and a lot of inside and outside english on cut shots. If there is a tip problem.. it will make itself known very quickly. I have seen all of these problems disappear using Talisman tips. They are very consistant and I have yet to have a bad one on my cues.

problems I remember with new tips.. (the bad ones..)
1. ability to hold chalk
2. miscues due to #1
3. mushrooming
4. shape of crown on tip, it flattens out quickly
5. sound... yes.. it sounds tinky..

Sid_Vicious
02-11-2003, 05:26 PM
But what about the tips that happened to work perfectly well with no annoyances? I can see that it is logical to get something negative to steer you into replacing a tip, but I myself have wasted good tips that are doing their jobs well, just so I can move the next candidate onto it's place for a trial. It is that 95% remaining life in a working tip that I am eluding too. We'll never know what is has there, if we strip it off before it gets us there...sid

Tom_In_Cincy
02-11-2003, 05:29 PM
Sid,
I'm one that will not cut off a tip until I know it needs to be replaced or is not doing what I want it to.

I also have an extra shaft for those times I can justify experimentation of a new type of tip. Otherwise, I keep the same type of tips on both cues.

Carlton31698
02-11-2003, 07:04 PM
If you don't mind would you lis some of the things you work on when you practice. I am trying to establish a good routine. I am an average player trying to improve. Thanks /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Rod
02-12-2003, 12:57 AM
Sid,
That should easily be enough time. If a tip was a tad soft
it would give it time to firm up. You would not know how it feels through it's life span but if you like it from the begining I hardly see how that should change anything. If I really like a tip even if it needs a little break-in, it's going to stay there. I'd never cut one off that I liked.

Rod

eg8r
02-12-2003, 07:49 AM
I would guess the trial time would be the life of the tip. I don't think you put a new tip on every couple weeks. How long with this tip last? How long will this tip keep the same feel? How drastic does the tip change over time? How much playing time is involved?

When I first started at LM we had a certain piece that amazed me how long it was tested. The dome had about 250 points at which to test and it was tested under different conditions for over a year. The part went through hot/ambient/cold testing, rain tests, wind tests, snow tests, etc... Each of these tests lasted days to weeks before the part received the go ahead.

I am sure most of these do not apply to a tip on a cue stick, but I truly believe that people test till they get an answer they are looking for. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Sid_Vicious
02-12-2003, 08:12 AM
I'm just reversed, if I love a tip's crisp hardness at first and then I sense that it changes(softens) even the slightest, I get anxious to try the next new one. Spiderman and I are privey to microscopes at work, so when I get an off hitting period of days, I'll get the tip under magnification and gently press on the crown with my thumbnail. Many many times I find visual sponginess(never realized by most all shooters) and , "Hey, I don't like that!" On the other hand I still have some of the first Talisman's on some of my cues, and enjoy playing with them. Will they last the entire duration? I'm not sure, because I've never worn one out before it delaminated. Maybe the ones still on are gonna last, we'll see.

I also realize that tips are changed in a more hurried time by tip installers than I'd give them merely because the installer needs to know what he/she is promoting to a customer, Spiderman being a prime example(imo.) I have the luxury of having lots of cues to leave a tip on that I may happen to like, where as he is limited.

I have taken off tips that were playing well, mostly for an extension of an experiment such as adding a pad along with another tip from the same box. I too am guilty as charged...sid

Wally_in_Cincy
02-12-2003, 08:41 AM
It's more understandable to experiment when you can do your own tips. You may have forgotten what a pain it is to try to get a tip replaced, especially if it's your primary playing shaft. If a tip plays good I don't replace it till it wears out.

BTW message to SnookerS in Cincy: your tip guy has now officially pissed me off. 12 days is too long to wait to get a tip replaced /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

Wally~~needs a new tip guy.

SpiderMan
02-12-2003, 10:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Sid,


I can tell from my 2 hour practice routine if there is a problem with my new tip. My routine is designed to test my stroke and a lot of inside and outside english on cut shots. If there is a tip problem.. it will make itself known very quickly. I have seen all of these problems disappear using Talisman tips. They are very consistant and I have yet to have a bad one on my cues.

<hr /></blockquote>

Tom,

I would love to examine your Talismans under a microscope. I carry an eye loupe wherever I go, and look at tips showing varying amounts of wear. So far, about 50% of the Talismans that I have examined have had at least a partial separation of one of the lower three layers. Maybe most players don't notice the change in sound, maybe it happens gradually so they just acclimate to the "breaking in".

Scott Lee tells me he has been using the same Talisman tips for a long time. Next time he's in Dallas I'm going to ask to examine his also.

I'm currently using an experimental hybrid tip that is 2/3 of a Talisman bonded to 1/3 of a hard WB break tip, the break tip being the lower section. I'm hoping that will circumvent some of the separation issues by replacing the type of material in the section that generally fails.

SpiderMan

eg8r
02-12-2003, 11:21 AM
Hey Spiderman,

I just had a new Talisman Pro Med installed on one shaft and a Talisman WB Hard on the other. Maybe next time you can check mine and let me know what you see. I guess that would be interesting to know.

eg8r

#### leonard
02-13-2003, 01:32 PM
Wally he must be a liberal democrat. Why else would he put you off. Just a story from old, Jimmy Relihan "The Springfield Rifle" was playing Boston Joey nineball at the Albany Golden Cue around 1970 when he lost his tip. He came up to the desk wanting to borrow a cue. I said Jim I will have a tip on it 5 minutes. Got out the Hot Melt Glue Gun and in 5 minutes he had a new tip on and went out and robbed Joey. I have played with the same tip for years of course I just caress the cueball. Here is the best tip there is for tips. If the poolroom you play at use good tips, just start playing with the house cues, when you find a tip that hits great a razor knife will extract the tip with no damage. Just make sure it is a larger diameter than your tip or it becomes impossible to align. ####