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View Full Version : Pro Mo'ing The School On The CCB, Selling Aint It?



Sid_Vicious
02-11-2003, 05:47 PM
Ya know I've seen authors run off for promoting their books, and cue sellers done the same ASAP, AND with a vengance no less...why is it that this Predator School salesman hasn't caught heat here for hawking this bunch???sid

02-11-2003, 06:21 PM
yeah, i ve noticed that there is a newbies board, maybe there could be a board for merchants and sellers, then we would not have to bother with it on the information board here. I can't imagine this group has not come up with this idea before, I m sorry to say old things, but it is practical.

by the way anyone interested in buy a rusted yugo car on blocks, great sound system, contact me.

honky

TomBrooklyn
02-11-2003, 06:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr>I've seen authors run off for promoting their books, and cue sellers done the same ASAP, AND with a vengeance ...why is it that this Predator School salesman hasn't caught heat here for hawking this bunch???<hr /></blockquote>Professionals Selling On Internet Forums
Charlie Williams posted one announcement per each session of his pool school.

Gerald Huber, the author I'm sure your referring to, whose advertising heyday was slightly before my time on CCB, from what I heard made numerous references to his book, and it was tolerated for quite a while until the quantity of his plugs became ridiculous. I would hardly consider Charlie's single commercial announcement comparable.

Aside from that, he has already received considerable criticism for his post in the thread that he made it. That wasn't enough?

Expand The Sport Or Condemn It?
Much has and occasionally continues to be made about how professional pool is not popular enough with the public and very few professionals can make a decent living at it. There is no question in my mind that one of the biggest reasons for this is the lack of awareness of events on every level: local, regional, and national. This is largely because the main places to find the people to inform are in competition, not cooperation with each other. Amongst them there is suspicion, infighting, hegemony, and uncooperation. This applies to pool halls, major venues, players and promoters.

Do CCB'ers Help Or Hurt?
Even many members of the CCB are quite willing to quickly jump on any bandwagon that is trashing some participant of the sport that is unpopular that day. That is in between the times they are paying lip service to wanting the sport to expand and lamenting the lack of money available to the pros and others.

I'd encourage anyone of Charlie's stature to post more often, not less on CCB, although not with just commercials of course. Would you really rather read my posts more than his?

I'd prefer to wish Charlie's venture success. If I wanted to go to his school I would, and if I thought it was too expensive for me I wouldn't; but I wouldn't condemn him because I am unwilling or unable to meet his price. I would admire the commitment of those who do attend his school and who support him and the pool industry in general.
=TB

eg8r
02-11-2003, 06:41 PM
I believe you might have missed one of the biggest threads on the board lately. Go back and read his threads. While some are not picking one side or the other about Charlie's character they have almost all agreed that his spamming is getting old.

eg8r

PastPrime
02-11-2003, 08:56 PM
I believe I just saw your post on selling a Stealth Jump Cue. Same exact thing, although I don't see anything wrong with either one. I had a couple of shafts listed months ago and everybody jumped on my case. Not trying to start trouble about your post but it always looks different from our own viewpoint.

02-11-2003, 10:01 PM
Well said, Tom. In general, when others are paying to advertise on this site, I think it unfair to allow some to market via the CCB without paying. However, I would be inclined to let periodic posts such as Charlie's slide.

Fran Crimi
02-11-2003, 11:48 PM
Tom, this is a website owned by a magazine that sells ads. Why should they allow free advertising here by hit and run spammers? Does it make sense for them to compete against themselves?


Fran

TomBrooklyn
02-12-2003, 02:23 AM
Hi Fran:
I don't think that any forum wants commercial interests to use the forum as a free advertising medium willy-nilly. On the other hand, the readers of any forum are generally interested in anything to do with the topic of the forum. So I would say that one post about any pool related event would generally be welcomed as informative, albeit also commercial. If it is a really big event or one that people would be expected to travel a long way for and require long advance planning, I'd consider a couple of posts spread out over a month or two as desireable information also.

Of course, if that one post comes from someone who started a player union and boycotted the biggest 9-Ball event of the year; he may get some flack no matter what he posted due to residual resentment some people harbor from that situation.

I also think it would be appropriate for someone who gets a benefit from the forum to contribute something back.

Charlie, how about occasionally chiming in on some of the 'How-To' or 'Best-Way' threads that are always popping up on the forum? Throw us a bone now and then. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

=Tom

bluewolf
02-12-2003, 05:06 AM
Who announced Brady's 9ballfantasy tournament in Va. Beach?
Who announced VF?

Surely someone benefitts in some way for the distribution of that information.I personally like hearing about events. I think that Charlie's pool school seems to be different because CW is advertising his own product.

Where do we draw the line?
When I first got on here, I was thinking about selling my 8ft table. WW told me to be careful what I said because advertising wasnt allowed.

Yet I see folks selling their individual stuff or at least announcing that they have it.

It looks like there are some grey areas. I think that if Charlie isn't allowed to advertise here, then everyone should follow the rules. Telling the board that I have a stealth, joss or whatever I want to get rid of is still advertising imo.

blu

eg8r
02-12-2003, 06:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I believe I just saw your post on selling a Stealth Jump Cue. Same exact thing, although I don't see anything wrong with either one. I had a couple of shafts listed months ago and everybody jumped on my case. Not trying to start trouble about your post but it always looks different from our own viewpoint. <hr /></blockquote> I think you might be mistaken. The board tends to overlook the advertising as long as you are posting here regularly and not trying to sell everything you have. I do not remember your post, but since you only have 22 posts and most of those probably came from your ad that is where the problem lies. I am guessing here, but I would venture to believe one of your first 10 or so posts was an ad to sell your shafts. It is easier to get away with it, if you have been posting regularly on the board.

In contrast to Sid, CW has ONLY posted ads, and that is the real issue.

eg8r

eg8r
02-12-2003, 07:14 AM
Grey areas???

Are you just not understanding anything of what people are saying?

In CWs case, there were no grey areas...He was advertising and then leaving. None of the other posters selling anything do this. NONE

In Brady's case (since you brought it up), why don't you go back to any of his ads and tell me if he did not post a reply to any question anyone had? When his father was in a little trouble, did he not come on here and answer some of the questions? Show me where CW has done this...

You seem to be trying to hard to compare situations that are no way near the same thing. The only thing in common is the actual advertisment. The biggest difference between the two is attitude. I am happy you guys had a great time and enjoyed the school...Heck I hope the same for everyone. I hope there are more schools so more people can attend, and I hope it remains affordable. I also like the idea of having the pros do the teaching, what a great lineup this next school is going to have. My problem is the free advertising. If you have to pay a premium to go to the school, why shouldn't the promoter pay to advertise?

Based on CW's first post, it appears he might try to answer some questions, I guess in due time that will relieve a little pressure due to his ads.

eg8r

eg8r
02-12-2003, 07:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I would be inclined to let periodic posts such as Charlie's slide. <hr /></blockquote> I do not feel his ads were periodic...more like everytime. If you are referring to time, then yes he did post from time to time, but only to post an ad and run. We will see in due time how long the question and answer period happens.

eg8r

bluewolf
02-12-2003, 07:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Grey areas???

Are you just not understanding anything of what people are saying?

In CWs case, there were no grey areas...He was advertising and then leaving. None of the other posters selling anything do this. NONE

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

The rule against advertising says nothing about that it is okay to sell and stay but not to sell and run. It says no advertising. If a rule is enforced for some and not for others then that is asking for trouble.

If that rule is for those in the business professionally but not for individuals, then the rule needs to be changed to reflect that. To enforce a rule for some and not for others is nothing short of anarchy.

blu

eg8r
02-12-2003, 07:38 AM
I guess from this last post you are on the rules side. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Since the board is the way it is, I beleive the users are more forgiving if the advertiser sticks around and contributes to the board in ways other than just advertising.

eg8r

bluewolf
02-12-2003, 08:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I guess from this last post you are on the rules side. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Since the board is the way it is, I beleive the users are more forgiving if the advertiser sticks around and contributes to the board in ways other than just advertising.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, before so many people got upset about Charlie, I was okay with how things were. I am not that much of a rules person as long as things are working.Even though it was breaking the rules, the majority of the people here seemed comfortable with it. But with the advent of Charlie, well one has to look at the whole thing. If a rule is not being enforced because there are no big infractions, nobody is upset and it is not cutting seriously into anyone's business that is complaining, that is one thing. The prime point is that it WAS working. When someone like Charlie comes along and advertises and people get upset and say that he was not following the rule, then it has to be pointed out that others were not too.

There are people here that I like better than Charlie. Nothing against him personally, I just do not know him as well as others here. Although I do think that it is a good school and good for pool, I also do not think he should advertise here without paying. But like it or not, a precedant had already been set here for free advertising and for a rule that was not enforced.

I am trying to say that once a rule,especially when it hasnt been enforced is not working then something needs to happen. Either change the rule or enforce it for everyone.

blu

Sid_Vicious
02-12-2003, 10:56 AM
I am glad you mentioned that, cuz you only need to re-read my original post of that topic with the subject saying "PM Me If Interested" to understand the up front intent of NOT wanting a sell-off on the CCB. That's a very far cry from somebody hawking us with statements like, "The clas is filling up fast."

Thanks for bringing it up for me...sid

02-12-2003, 10:24 PM
I meant periodic as in he's not posting on here weekly advertising his school. If he promotes a session maybe once every 3-4 months, and makes 1 announcement here each time, I don't have a problem with that, but I can understand where others that are paying for advertising might. However, I will admit that the posts are blatant advertising. It appears to me that most posters here have more of a problem with Charlie Williams himself than a solicitous post from him every now and then, and that also may be justified. Most of what I have read about him on this CCB has not been flattering, but since I've never met him, I'm not going to speculate on what kind of person he is. If one of the more respected pros decided to put on a tournament, and made an announcement here as to the location, date, time, entry fee, etc., would that be advertising, or would the informative value outweigh the solicitation?

Popcorn
02-12-2003, 11:19 PM
I think one thing is, many of the posters here are in the business. Cuemakers, room owners, case makers, supply house owners. But none try to push anything, they respect the rules and come here to talk about pool. Most never even disclose who they really are. We talk pool here, not sell stuff. Posting tournament information or results, I would not call advertising. In fact I like hearing about up coming tournaments and what will be going on there, it is fitting with what we talk about. The line may be gray but I think it is easy to see. That is my feelings anyway.

02-12-2003, 11:33 PM
I agree the intention to advertise in this case was obvious, I just wasn't that offended by it. But like I said earlier, if I was one of the businesses paying for advertising, I'm sure I WOULD be offended.

MikeM
02-13-2003, 07:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>
I am trying to say that once a rule,especially when it hasnt been enforced is not working then something needs to happen. Either change the rule or enforce it for everyone.

blu <hr /></blockquote>Another way of putting this would be "there seem to be gray areas" /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MM

bluewolf
02-13-2003, 11:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MikeM:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>
I am trying to say that once a rule,especially when it hasnt been enforced is not working then something needs to happen. Either change the rule or enforce it for everyone.

blu <hr /></blockquote>Another way of putting this would be "there seem to be gray areas" /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MM

<hr /></blockquote>

You got it!!!! people were okay with the shades of gray up to a point it seems.

blu