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Joe T
02-12-2003, 10:42 AM
What do think is going to happen when player "A" pushes out and ties up balls and player "B" passes the shot back and player "A" ties up some more balls and gives player "B" ball in hand with a mess? I think some racks may take forever with nobody willing to break up clusters? Is there some kind of contingency plan for this situation?

Eric.
02-12-2003, 11:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Joe T:</font><hr> What do think is going to happen when player "A" pushes out and ties up balls and player "B" passes the shot back and player "A" ties up some more balls and gives player "B" ball in hand with a mess? I think some racks may take forever with nobody willing to break up clusters? Is there some kind of contingency plan for this situation? <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Joe,

Are you playing?

Actually, the game is normal 10 ball with the old rollout 9 ball rules. You can roll out on every shot(i.e. after someone locks you up), BUT if he declines your roll out, you MUST make the ball or give up ball is hand.

Eric

Joe T
02-12-2003, 11:24 AM
Hey Eric, I think you missed my question. I know you can roll out anytime. If I roll out and tie up two balls, you pass it back to me, I tie up two more balls and now you have ball in hand with a mess? Are you gonna break up those clusters?
I can't play, we have a Joss event in Syracuse this weekend and one in Baltimore next sat &amp; sun. I'll probably stop by friday to sweat some of it.

Eric.
02-12-2003, 11:46 AM
Gotcha Joe. I finally comprehended what you were saying. Seems like your strategy would be the right one if faced with a no win roll out situation.

Eric

ShayneinDayton
02-12-2003, 11:56 AM
My question is, Are jump cues aloud? Seems the better jumpers will roll-out to a jump shoot if they get out of line, hoping to get the shot back.

Shayne

Joe T
02-12-2003, 02:02 PM
Good Question and if so, what are the specifications of the jump cue? But I'll bet they won't be allowed.

Ken
02-12-2003, 06:02 PM
Add the cue ball to the mess and go for three fouls and a quick game. It's not a good idea to be on one foul with clusters of balls around especially with 10 object balls on the table. You could go for a break shot and if that fails try for the second foul and then the third. I don't think there is need for a contingency as it seems a poor strategy.

I don't think you can avoid slow games. We saw in the Open that if the balls are not spread out due to the slow break you get a slow game. Pool can be a slow game. It's like fishing. It's more fun to participate than it is to watch.

If you want more action decrease the number of balls instead of increasing it. This change is not for the spectators, it's for the players.
KenCT

Joe T
02-13-2003, 12:44 AM
How are you going to get a player on three fouls when they can push out every time?

Greg/Diamond
02-13-2003, 01:41 AM
Joe,
I'd be glad to explain the rules as I'm the one along with George Brunt who developed these rules. I can see from these posts that the rules are not explained fully. Ed Hagan who is helping with this tournament is writing the complete rules and will be explaining them at the players meeting. Also there are mini tournaments going on with many top players going over the best stratigies. Johnny Archer is one name mentioned. The rules are not complicated. Mini tournaments have been played for approx. 2 years and results have been positive......To answer you're question, any player who accepts to shoot the roll out and fails to make a ball on a legal hit gives the other player ball in hand and the player who missed the ball is also placed on one foul. Any player who is on a foul no longer has the benefit of rolling out......As for you're first concern about a player that ties up balls on his roll out and then is told to shoot and ties up more balls before giving up ball in hand: I've never seen this happen and I tried to do this and found it to be very difficult and not a good strategy, but much will be learned when the pros figure their best ways to win. Thanks for being the devils advocate. I think most will find the roll out rule will not come into effect as much as you might now think. The games played so far have been very offensive and great shots have been attempted. Let's see what the pros come up with. Thanks,.....Greg/Diamond

Ken
02-13-2003, 07:54 AM
Joe, The way I think "no miss" works is that on your ONE push out the next player to shoot must make a ball (no miss). Therefore if your push does not result in a makeable shot you will get it back and if you fail to make a ball you are on a foul. The rest of the game continues as usual. If you can push more than once the "no miss" still will apply to the next shot. As far as I know the game proceeds just like in nine ball. You simply cannot push out to an easier hit and then go for a saftey because the shot after the push is "no miss" meaning there is a foul penalty for not making a ball. Does "no miss" mean something else? I guess we need a more complete explanation.

It seems that Greg is saying that a second push would be a second foul. I guess that is the contingency you asked about. It sounds interesting. I might go watch. At least its toward the south where it's warm and not as far as Baltimore.
Ken CT

Joe T
02-13-2003, 10:46 AM
Thanks Greg, "Any player who is on a foul no longer has the benefit of rolling out" This is the a rule I didn't know about. Also I hope you know I wasn't down playing the event, I was as you so politely put it playing Devils advocate. Any event held in such a nice venue with this amount of added money and draws these numbers is a ok with me. Good Luck, wish I was playing.

Barbara
02-13-2003, 11:01 AM
Qutoe Joe T: [ QUOTE ]


What do think is going to happen when player "A" pushes out and ties up balls and player "B" passes the
shot back and player "A" ties up some more balls and gives player "B" ball in hand with a mess? <hr /></blockquote>

That's the name of the game, Joe. Player A shouldn't have been allowed to play a push in the first place if you're going to be concerned about the mess afterwards.

If the game is really "no miss", don't you have to pocket a ball or give up BIH to your opponent when you don't?

Barbara

Ken
02-13-2003, 01:21 PM
Barbara,
The game they will play at Trump is called "no miss roll-out" meaning the no miss only applies after you push. This will require that you leave some kind of shot after you push. If the shot after the push is given back to you and you miss that will put you on one foul and you will be required to make a legal hit on your next shot. No more push until your foul is erased.

This should eliminate long safety exchanges and bring more offense into the game. It will also serve as an incentive to take a tough shot instead of playing safe because a player can just push after you play safe without having to make a legal hit or get a foul.
KenCT