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View Full Version : Minnesotta Fats vs. Fast Larry *DELETED*



Fran Crimi
02-17-2003, 11:04 AM
Post deleted by Fran Crimi

Wally_in_Cincy
02-17-2003, 11:51 AM
But he does know how to chalk properly. That has to count for something.

And he also has a <font color="red">secret </font color>book.....

02-17-2003, 12:16 PM
Fran,
I laughed out loud at how Fats would have described playing someone like Fast Larry. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I used to have great conversations with Larry when I worked with J.L. at BCA.I do not know if Larry was ever afforded the BCA Master Level Instructor Title.I can only say I was not,and rightfully so,because I did not meet the strict criteria for this level of instructor.
Self promotion is one thing,aggrandaizing is another.I have no bone to pick with Larry or anyone else.Larry has been around pool for a very long time and has had success in some areas.It is not what we have done,but what we do each day to benefit pool in a positive way.I have recommended BCA Instructors to dozens of people of every skill level,and if Larry does promote himself as such without the proper credentials,he does a disservice to himself,the BCA,and the sport.
I am happy he has appeared on TV many times in the past years.Perhaps that can be parlayed into a viable opportunity for the sport.
Re:Fats,although I always called him Rudy,was without question all of the things said about him,but his participation with legendary gamers is beyond reproach.
I don't know who Larry has played over his career and what venues,perhaps he could shed some light for us.
Fran,I have the deepest admiration for your skills and talents.You are one of the reasons I joined the ccb,along with Scott Lee.Thank You for being here.

The Bayou Banger,
c /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gifajunfats
No Relation to the Orginal /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

eg8r
02-17-2003, 12:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Fast Larry, on the other hand, makes up credentials. Says he's a BCA Master Instructor. They never heard of the guy over at the BCA Instructor Program Dept.
<hr /></blockquote> Uh Oh...someones been fibbin. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

#### leonard
02-17-2003, 01:05 PM
My favorite Fats story began when he gave Joe Canton and I, three free days of exhibitions around 1970 at the Albany Golden Cue. I love to say he gave us 27 hours of entertainment. He talked for all that time and never told the same lie twice. You knew the stories were fabricated but how could one person continue talking and never tell a story over. A truly amazing feat. Up until that point I thought Fatty was an imposter but after his three days of wrapping the audience around his little finger I had the utmost respect for his ability to charm an audience and promote the game of pool. He was playing kids for a dollar a game and stamp the dollar with "Won from Minnesota Fats" ####

02-17-2003, 01:12 PM
well it will be interesting to see how this progresses....

I guess "its in the way that you use it"

bluewolf
02-17-2003, 01:51 PM
The plot thickens. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

blu

Popcorn
02-17-2003, 02:16 PM
I met Fats several times and really liked him. I will only tell one Fats story and I think it tell you a lot about him. I was going to put on a charity event for a sick kid. I arranged to have a ballroom in a nice hotel Free, A table installed, Free and I contacted several well known top players and offered them expenses to come play some challenge matches and sign autographs and do some trick shots. We were going to provide a small dinner as well as the show for the donation. It would have been a nice night. I got no takers among the pros with not even an excuse. Miz wanted $3000. to come. Only Fats offered to come and declined any expense money. The thing never happened, but my opinion about Fats was forever changed as was my opinion about a lot of the so called pros.

02-17-2003, 02:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Fast Larry, on the other hand, makes up credentials. Says he's a BCA Master Instructor. They never heard of the guy over at the BCA Instructor Program Dept.

That's not the sign of a character of the game. That's the sign of someone who's trying to pull something over on people. <hr /></blockquote>*sigh*

Well, well, well. This little discovery has just shocked me to my very core. Color me surprised...

And to think I was beginning to 2nd guess myself and feel bad about being so hard on Larry the other day when he finally "got my goat." It's hard to respect someone, or their accomplishments, when they throw it in your face in every message. No, not just throw, more like grind them in. And now we have to wonder how many other "accomplishments," like this one, are for real.

Thanks for the detective work, Fran. I'm curious to see how Larry explains this one away. Maybe we all misunderstood him, and he will make everything right and restore my faith in him. Yeah.

I know a lot of you, maybe most of you, want Larry to stick around. That he provides some "color" to the forums. That despite his character, he's an accomplished expert and a source of useful advice. Maybe so. But the only color I see is <font color="red">RED</font color> when he posts. Heck, I can't even bring myself to read his latest diatribes -- the first few sentences are enough to make me think "more of the same." While I've played pool for 25 years, I've only been here on CCB for a relatively short while, but I have read and posted almost every single day since I've been here. I feel like I "know" a lot of you by now, and respect every single person and opinion on this board. I value the advice and guidance of those more experienced and skilled than I, and I enjoy passing on advice to those less so, and I have never posted out of anger or frustration at anyone else. Until Larry came along. With the likes of Fran and Scott and Popcorn and Tom_In_Cincy and Spiderman, et. al. in residence here, I really don't need Larry. I for one can live without him, and will be bypassing any future posts by him.

Enough said.

David

Scott Lee
02-17-2003, 03:00 PM
Dick...In 1975, I watched Fatty do an exhibition at Dave Cook Sporting Goods, in Denver, CO. For three hours, he HELD the cue, but NEVER hit one ball! LMAO He told stories for the whole time, and had us all cracking up! LOL Just goes to show ya, he was "world class" when it came to talking. Also, a world champion eater...god that guy could pack it away! LOL

Scott Lee

Scott Lee
02-17-2003, 03:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>

Fast Larry, on the other hand, makes up credentials. Says he's a BCA Master Instructor. They never heard of the guy over at the BCA Instructor Program Dept.

That's not the sign of a character of the game. That's the sign of someone who's trying to pull something over on people.

I worked my butt off for a lot of years to earn BCA Master Instructor status. Didn't realize that all I had to do was call myself one.

You really got my goat with this one, Larry.

Too bad. Well, we've still got Wonder Dog.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Amen Fran!

Scott

Hopster
02-17-2003, 03:09 PM
As far as larry goes, when i wrote the post about Rotation asking about the rules he said to e mail him and he would tell me what i wanted to know as he ran out of room.
Well, the first thing and i mean the first thing he wrote to me was TO GET A COPY OF THE BCA RULE BOOK. The rest of the e mail was essentially self promotion. Very disappointing.
Anyway, after something like that i dont go on and on, i just forget about the person and thats it.
Now about Fats, i first saw him playing the challenge match against Mosconi back in 78 and the guy had me in stitches. I saw this on tv by the way and i been a Fats fan ever since. I have 4 of the tapes from Bert Kinister when he had them on sale and tape 2 when he stops the game and goes on and on in his match against UJ Pucket is one of the funniest dialogues i ever saw. I read his book and laughed, you know hes full of it but you got to love him anyway. Its a shame theres not more on him out there. I love hearing stories about the guy. My pop met him in the 40,s and said he could play but man could he talk. lol
The other tapes where he plays Willie are good too as Willie just ignores him.
Great guy and probably did more for the game than any one man, big statement but i think he was great.
Anyone have any info where i could get any other fats stuff i would love to know.
Thanks

beerwolf
02-17-2003, 03:40 PM
Now wait just a minute here. Fast Larry never posted that he is a "Master BCA Instructor". He just said that "I am nowa master level teacher". Fast Larry is the master of at least three dogs and he has taught them all to play pool. That, in my book, makes him a "master" and a "teacher" and gives him every right to proclaim that to the world. How many of those BCA types can say they have ever taught a dog to play? How many of them are masters of dogs that are totally ignorant of the game of pool? And with all their great "credentials" why have they no dogs to claim as their successful students? It's clear that despite some of them being "BCA Master Instructors" they have failed to produce one canine student who ever amounted to anything!

I have the Feb. 2000 edition of BD and, just as Fast Larry stated, there is a picture of one of his students featured in the magazine in the act of playing pool.

Before you cast stones first cast a few object balls and take notice of what your mutts do with them. Larry's dogs will pocket them.
BW

Karatemom
02-17-2003, 03:40 PM
You and I are on the same wavelength. I did a little research of my own, albeit small compared to the BCA Master Instruction Program.

He has claimed to be in the Guinness Book of World Records for the number of balls made on the break in 8 and 9 ball. Well, Christ has that book and I didn't see it anywhere in there. Looked through the whole darn thing, too. I also checked online at their website. No such record held by any such person - what a surprise!

Heide ~ usually keep my mouth shut, but Chris isn't home to duct tape my fingers together /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran Crimi
02-17-2003, 03:46 PM
"I graduated from the BCA instructors school, I am nowa master level teacher."

BW I know you're half-kidding but just wanted to bring the quote to the thread so people know what we're referring to. Trying to find it is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Fran

beerwolf
02-17-2003, 04:24 PM
OK I admit I corrected the typo by putting a space in where "nowa" was. I'll edit my post so that it is more accurate. I don't know if graduating from a BCA instructors school makes anyone a "BCA Master Instructor", but as your quote shows he never said he was one.

To Heide: Guinness keeps many records that it can't publish in its book. In order to get published the act would have to be done under conditions that Guinness can verify or at least be generally accepted as the record. The breaks that Fast Larry claims probably were not done under conditions that would permit their being published in the book. That does not mean that they are not recognized by Guinness. You don't call up Guinness and tell them you are going to make 8 balls on the break and would they please come over and film it. It's a once in a lifetime event that you can't predict in advance.

Hitting 11 rails is a feat that you should be able to reproduce and therefore do for the Guinness people. I don't know if he has done it for Guinness but I have seen the "Ripley's Believe it or Not" cartoon that reports him doing it and I would suspect that Guinness accepts that as a record as well.

See this link for verification of Fast Larry's claims: http://gtalumni.org/StayInformed/techtopics/spr95/pool.html

That was 8 years ago when he had only 9 world records. Most teachers at Universities are not only masters they are PhDs.
BW

02-17-2003, 04:38 PM
You'd think that with so many accomplishments, records, and and Ripley's Belive-It-Or-Not appearances, it would be easier to find more info about Larry on the net. We aren't talking about the colorful and beloved hustlers whose stories and accomplishments have been passed primarily by word of mouth -- we're talking "official records" here that should be recorded somewhere, right?

I just did a Google and DogPile search on various permutations of Larry's name. If you aren't aware of it, DogPile (www.dogpile.com) is a meta-search engine that searches ALL of the major search engines for your search terms. It hits Google, Overture, Yahoo, Alta Vista, etc. It also searches newsgroups and a few message boards.

Anyway, I found this Georgia Tech Alumni article from 1995 (http://gtalumni.org/StayInformed/techtopics/spr95/pool.html) discussing Larry's pool course at GATech. It speaks highly of him as a pool instructor, but basically appears to just repeat what Larry says about himself, probably without a lot of fact checking. Also, I noted that Larry came across very intelligently in the article, only slightly arrogant but not at all obnoxious like he's been here.

Other than that, all I found was mention of Larry placing 8th in the 2000 BCA Artistic Pool Competition, and being ranked 28th in the International Artistic Pool Rankings at ontherack.com. That's it. Now, seeing as how he made the rankings in the trick shot category tells me he can surely handle a cue, no doubt -- probably can whip my butt at the table even. But being a trick shot artist doesn't necessarily make you a great pool player either. At any rate, doesn't this seem to be a weak amount of info on a person who claims the records and titles that Larry claims, especially in this day and age of technology? And considering I searched every major search engine? No mention of his accomplishments, no mention of his "pool school", heck, not even a mention of Wonder Dog.

Could it be that Larry is a legend in his own mind?

David

02-17-2003, 04:42 PM
Hey, beerwolf, you got your post in ahead of me, and I noticed you linked to the same article I did.

I realize you're being a bit tounge-in-cheek here, but I wanted to make sure you weren't serious about that article being verification of Larry's claims. It was surely written by a student or alumnis and sounded like they were just quoting what he told them... /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

bluewolf
02-17-2003, 04:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmorris68:</font><hr> You'd think that with so many accomplishments, records, and and Ripley's Belive-It-Or-Not appearances, it would be easier to find more info about Larry on the net.
...discussing Larry's pool course at GATech. It speaks highly of him as a pool instructor, but basically appears to just repeat what Larry says about himself, probably without a lot of fact checking. Also, I noted that Larry came across very intelligently in the article, only slightly arrogant but not at all obnoxious like he's been here.

<hr /></blockquote>

This difference in attitude from school article to ccb, I find interesting.

blu

eg8r
02-17-2003, 05:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bw:</font><hr> OK I admit I corrected the typo by putting a space in where "nowa" was. I'll edit my post so that it is more accurate. I don't know if graduating from a BCA instructors school makes anyone a "BCA Master Instructor", but as your quote shows he never said he was one.
<hr /></blockquote> It might just be me, but I don't think you are reading Larry's post the same way I am. Larry states that since <blockquote><font class="small">Quote larry (the only guy on earth that has to play pool with his dogs):</font><hr> I graduated from the BCA instructors school, I am nowa master level teacher. <hr /></blockquote> Without reading into his words, I see that he went to the school and came out at the Master level. That is not difficult to understand. It is obviously a lie if we are to believe Fran. I believe Fran.

eg8r

beerwolf
02-17-2003, 05:47 PM
I see that you are as good at writing between the lines as you are at reading between the lines.
The fact is that Fast Larry never claimed to have had the title of "BCA Master Instructor" bestowed upon him. I was just trying to be a little humorous with this but I'm amazed at what you and others have fabricated over this subject.
Fran talked to some people who "never heard of the guy". Obviously she talked to people who either: 1. Do not read Billiards Digest, 2. Do not attend Valley Forge on a regular basis (I don't remember seeing him last year), or 3. Have poor memories.
Did Fran say: They went through the records of everyone who ever took a course and Larry never took a course?
Did Fran say: He is not listed as a BCA Instructor. (the web site does not list him).
I would not be surprised to find out that Fast Larry teaches at a level equal to or far above that of a "BCA Master Instructor". It takes more than just a BCA course to teach well. I don't have firsthand experience with any of the "BCA Masters" but from what I have heard they range from adequate to very good and I don't believe the better ones owe their expertise to a BCA course.
BW

L.S. Dennis
02-17-2003, 05:52 PM
Well I have to admit up front that I never had the pleasure of seeing Minnisotta Fats in person but I do have a copy of the video of his induction to the hall of fame. The guy was fabulous, he went on for what seemed like more than an hour without a monitor! Great stuff, he could may well have been able to replace Johnny Carson on the late show, he was that good.

One last thing the readers here may find amusing to read. It's one of Jimmy Reid's recollections of Fats some time ago:
The Last Johnston City Tournament:
1972, Round-Robin, 9 Ball and 1 Pocket only.
Three weeks, you play everybody.

Tournament eve; Minnesota Fats ( Rudolph Wanderone ) is speaking live on a midwest tv and radio broadcast, trying to help Paulie Jansco promote the tournament. Here is one of the things he said, and I quote " Jimmy Reid is here from LA, and wants to play-any man from any land, for any amount he can count, anything he can bring, any game he can name."

Three weeks later-finals night, there are 4 players left in the 9 ball and 4 players left in the 1 pocket, yours truly is top of the board in both divisions, I'm ahead of Norman Hitchcock 1 game to love in the 1 pocket semi-finals and we had just begun the 2nd. game----when all of a sudden a voice comes over the microphone;

This is the FBI, everybody stay where you are, we've got all the exits closed, and this tournament is over. They had 33 Subpoenas and 12 indightments for interstate gambling act and income tax evasion. We all had to appear at a special Grand Jury hearing that was scheduled for 9am next morning in St Louis, Mo.. Come to find out, that the tournament eve quote of Fats was grounds enough for the interstate gambling charges, they (FBI) only made one mistake, they served Fats with a subpoena also.

About 1/2 of us had gone in and testified one at a time before the Grand Jury, then Fats showed up and demanded to testify next. When he got through testifying and came out into the corridor--- the whole Grand Jury followed him out and wanted his autograph. They decided not to follow the U.S. District Attorneys advice and immediately dropped the charges against all the poolplayers ( yours truly included ) that had been indicted.

Happy but curious I asked Fatty ( which is what his friends called him ) what had happened. He replied, "I told them that these poolplayers were harmless and to stop wasting the taxpayers' money, that they had 2 people subpoenaed out there, Dirty Low Down Red and Omaha Fats, and that if you gave them a blood test it would come back 90% hotdog &amp; 10% coffee." Fatty was the best talker I've ever known, the DA didn't have a chance. Fatty got us in and Fatty got us out... New York Fats - alias - Minnesota Fats - ( Fatty ) like Ali was "The Greatest"...

randyg
02-17-2003, 06:28 PM
Easy BEERWOLF, you are on thin ice....randyg (BCA Master Instructor)

Fran Crimi
02-17-2003, 07:54 PM
BW, if Fast Larry is a great instructor, more power to him. We need great instructors in the sport and I don't care if they're BCA or not.

Just don't lie about it.

Fran

02-17-2003, 08:39 PM
Dear Fran, what you wrote about me was slander. I graduated from the BCA instructors school, will be soon posting a copy of this on my new web site www.fastlarrypool.com. (http://www.fastlarrypool.com.) You owe me a public apology. The next time you try to slander me, get your facts right.
Fast Larry

02-17-2003, 08:47 PM
Is it fast Larry "Guninger" as his website says or fast Larry "Grindinger" http://gtalumni.org/StayInformed/techtopics/spr95/pool.html states.

oh well Larry seemed interesting, hope this is cleared up and Larry becomes a productive poster here.

giving Larry benefit of the doubt here /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

02-17-2003, 09:07 PM
Dear sir, you stated that my web site lists my name as Grindinger, that is not my web site. Grindinger is my proper Christian name. I am half Austrian, and I am half Irish. The name cant be pronounced or spelled by anyone, it is just too tough, too long. A couple of years ago I tried to make it easy on every one &amp; adopted a new stage name, "Fast Larry" Guninger, aka Larry Grindinger are the same person. When I graduated from the BCA instructors school on l2-3-96, the certificate was made out to Larry Grindinger, not Fast Larry, Not Guninger. All of these people on the board know that, Crimi &amp; Scott Lee knows that.
Everything I claimed was true. They are twisting everything around they can. I said I did all my records by the Guinness book of records, Bob Byrne gave me all the things I had to do for a record to be not questioned. I followed every one of them. No where did I say I was in the book, the people slandering me said that. These people better watch their A**, slander is serious, it can get you in court &amp; I have always wanted to own a pool hall. When you go to Google &amp; search &amp; put in Fast Larry Grindinger, you get a article written about me. Those who slander me act like I wrote it, the editor of the Ga Tech University Alumni magazine wrote it. Ga Tech set up this web site about me in l995. My new web site is about Fast Larry Guninger, and it is under www.fastlarrypool.com (http://www.fastlarrypool.com) I am building it my self, and I only have the first page done, I am now working on page 2. Soon all the data you want, will be on there. Fast Larry Guninger...

Fran Crimi
02-17-2003, 09:27 PM
Who's questioning whether you passed a BCA course? I'm not. Lots of people do. You laid a statement out there for everyone to read. The majority of us took it the same way.

I'm sorry Larry, but when nearly everyone has the same impresson of what you said, then who's the one really at fault here? All of us? Me? Because of the way you put your words together?

Maybe you should take a little more care in how you word things and this kind of thing won't happen.

Fran

Tom_In_Cincy
02-17-2003, 09:31 PM
I'm a little confused Fast Larry,

You mentioned in a previous post that you were a BCA Master instructor, not just a BCA certified instructor.. but a Master instructor.. most of the regulars here, know the difference. How can this difference be slander if its true?

If you want to continue posting here with any kind of respect.. you need to get your stories correct..

Join the forum by contributing with questions, answers or comments in a decent manner and you will be listened to.

Making threats (slander reply to Fran) and telling posters they are stupid for playing One Pocket... or using elk master tips.. is not going to win you any respect.

www.geocities.com/cinytom314 (http://www.geocities.com/cinytom314) Even I can make a website... check it out if you like. No certifications.. no boasts, no facts that I can't back up... anyone can make a website or have one made. This doesn't make you an authority on anything except your life and how you got where you are. If you want to charge students for your teaching skills, I suggest you take a course in communications, you may be brilliant in what you know about yourself, but if all you do is talk about yourself.. the students will only learn about YOU.. not about POOL.

By the way, I just looked at BCA site and searched in the active and inactive BCA instructor lists and your name didn't appear. You need to check with BCA and have them correct this problem. If they don't... maybe you ought to have them appologize for being slanderous also..

And, I did do a "google" search on "Fast Larry Grindinger" and only found two references and both were about the Geogeia Tech course bio of you. Is this the source you mentioned for confirming your 'records'?

Fran Crimi
02-17-2003, 09:35 PM
Well, holy Crap Larry! Why didn't you say who you were in the first place!!!

Geez. Of course I know you.

OK. I take it all back. I know Larry. You have my apology . Will you please use your real name damnitttttt!

But really, could you please be a little more clearer next time your writing about your credentials? I'm not kidding, for someone who doesn't know you, (like me, not knowing who Fast Larry was) it's not easy to understand where you're coming from with that stuff.


Fran

02-17-2003, 09:42 PM
Dear Mr. Beerwolf, thank you sir for having some insight. To answer your question about me hitting a 11 rails bank, I was the first person to hit 10, then 11, in history, &amp; prove it, and I proved it by the Guinness book of records.
Yo adrian, he said he did it by da book, he never said he wuz in da book....These people working me over make me want to puke. I have hit a 11 rail bank in a hundred joints all over the country &amp; mostly on tables that were junk. The original table I did it on was a l0 yr old Gandy with l0 yr old rails with the cheapest house cloth money can buy &amp; a house cue ball. I'll be happy to send you a piece of the original cloth, email me at fastlarrypool.com, send me your address. Gerni came in to travel with me 2 weeks after I set the record &amp; wanted to go see &amp; inspect the record table, nothing had changed on it, he could only hit 8 rails, it was so bad. He turned white, he told me, he could not believe I had done it on anything that bad. I hit 11 at the Hopkins expo in 97, I have that on tape. I hit 11 at the BCA show in Vegas. I hit 11 on the premier of the Ripley's believe it or not show, which has now been seen by l78 million people world wide. l00 million people read about the ll rail record when ripleys pubished it in 275 newspapers, on 5 continents, in l9 different languages. Do you think they would be stupid enough to just take my word on it, no I had to prove it to them by the Guninness book of records standards. Yo adrian, dare he goes again, tryin to confuse us or what...On that prime time TV show, I also made my other 4 Ripley's record shots. If you want to see these shots, and see me hit 11 rails back to back one handed on both 9' pool tables &amp; l0' Billiard tables, these shots, and most of my record shots are available on 4 different video tapes, each one is 2 hrs long. Is this fair or what, before another one of these people with competitive agendas against me, slanders me, how about they put a lid on it, and order the tapes, they are only $17 each, plus $3s&amp;h. They beg for proof, all the proof they want I have. They should view what I do, before they throw mud on my name &amp; on my accomplishement again. Once they see them, then they should privately write me &amp; apologize, these people are doing me great injustice calling me a liar, and I take great offense with this, and I want it stopped now. Fast Larry

Karatemom
02-17-2003, 09:54 PM
I stand corrected and do apologize for my ignorance. However, in the article by Hoyt Coffee, it does state that you are listed in the Guinness Book of World Records. I do however, realize that you did not say that you were listed in the book.

Again, I apologize for my misunderstanding.

Heide

Tom_In_Cincy
02-17-2003, 09:54 PM
11 rail banks... I believe it.. I really do.. I believe it.. I really do.

I just hope I never have to use this many rails to win a match. If I do.. I could have spent the $20 and learned.. but I passed up the chance.

02-17-2003, 10:11 PM
Fran, are you being serious or fecetious? Do you really know him as "Guninger?" Neither name appears on the BCA Active or Inactive Instructor lists that I found.

I searched for anything about "Larry Guninger" with and without the "Fast" moniker and I find even less than I did for "Grindinger." Seems that Larry has kept a pretty low profile despite all these years of teaching, setting records, and appearing on TV.

Will be interesting to see where this goes from here...

/me grabs popcorn and watches from the sidelines

On Edit:

Fran I saw your apology post, so I guess you were serious. Okay then, that helps shed a little positive light on you, Larry, although your communications skills and tact still need some work. I'm still surprised there isn't more information about you floating around out there.

Tell you what, you point me to some obtainable references where I can study up on you, and you make those videos available on your site, and I'll buy some or maybe all of 'em. If your intent was to create a publicity stir around your wares, then it may have worked. It would be worth dumping the money to see all of this for myself. And I'd be the first (well, second, after Fran) to post a public apology for all I've said about you. You *still* need to work on how you talk to people, though, if you want folks to respect you and take you seriously. As Tom indicated, I would *never* drop money on an instructor that talked about himself as much as you do.

David

Fran Crimi
02-17-2003, 10:17 PM
This is nuts, ain't it?

I know Larry Grindlinger (did I spell that right?). I've known him for years. I'm just finding out now that they're the same person.

Fran

02-17-2003, 10:50 PM
Dear Fran Crimi, I thank you for your recent post. Fran, you will never know how much damage you have done to me &amp; to my reputation by that attack against me, you allowed the wolf pack that I had thought I had put at bay, all jump on me again &amp; go for my throat. I was out teaching all day long &amp; I came home &amp; saw what you wrote &amp; damn near cried.
I could believe a couple of these other people doing that, one is pushing a old grudge, one does not want me speaking the truth on equipment, another does not want me competiting. I fear no competitors, there is always room for one more, and you cant have too many competent teaching instructors, all they do is grow the game for everyone. Running me into the dirt is not good for the game. Ray always told me you were a fine person &amp; a good gal, I was so shocked to have you come after me. Ok, a mistake was made, it's probably as much my fault as your fault, let's forget it, let it ride. See me at the Hopkins Expo, I'll buy you a beer, seriously, no hard feelings over this. Ray Schuler &amp; I were very close, I have played with his cue since l980 &amp; used it only for billiards. He made me 3 pool cues, just for me in 94 &amp; it is his cue that I set all these records with. The Bankok Birch shaft you are using, I invented, it's a long story, Ray never wanted to admit it, but Ivan will tell you it is true, he &amp; I came up with it.
Ray called me up &amp; said I am going to run a ad with the players who use my cue on it, I said OK&lt; who's on the ad, he said you are, where do you want to be. I said who are the other people, he said Raymound Cuelemans, Sang lee, Bob Byrne, Fran Crimi, I said stop, are you nuts, I cant carry any of these great players jock straps into a billiard parlor, let alone their cue. He said you are on, where, I said then list me last &amp; Raymound first. I cant tell you how much that man taught me &amp; passed on to me, God bless &amp; rest his soul. So you see, we do have something in common, the Masters cue. When you see my tape, and the ripleys show, I make the 4 ball bottle shot on the first snap, a overhead camera sweeps down on the cue I slamed down on the table so hard I almost broke it in half, yes I am da cue throwin hat tossin dude, and did a close up on it, it is so beautiful, it will give you goose bumps. I paid Ray back on that shot. I still use his cue &amp; the bankok birch shafts. In trick shots I can use as many cues or shafts that I want, so I use his to draw, I now use the Meucci to hit follows, now I have the best of both worlds. Fran I knew Fatty before the 6l movie came out, he lived in the state next to me, came in a lot. I loved the big guy, willie Mosss cone eeeeee, Willie could walk out in the middle of times square with a can of gasoline &amp; set him self on fire &amp; not draw a crowd of one, ah yes indeed, Mossss cone eeeee, he would not play for a half a pop, why I can beat him with one arm tied behind my back, I would be on the floor with tears coming to my eyes. No I dont copy him, or follow his act, I never bedded Fatima or her daughter, not did she give me her ruby from her belly button. The truth is, the man never said a true thing in his life, &amp; as you said, nobody gave a damn. I do nothing but tell the truth &amp; get called a liar, it's wearing a little thin. Send me a email to fastlarry@earthlink.net, I'll mail you a copy of my BCA teaching certificate awarded to me on l2-3-96, or you can call up the dean of the school, Jerry Brtiesath, I schooled under him in Madison
Wisc at the old college room. The teaching certificate was signed by Bruce Baker of the BCA. So many things are being twisted to put me in a bad light. I never said I was a BCA master level instructor, never, ever, but every one is now accusing me of being a fraud. I dropped out of the school, there are many master level instructors who dont want to be in the BCA program, I can give you 10 names, but I dont want to embarass them, but how about 3 time world champion Ray Martin of Tampa for openers. You dont have to belong to the BCA to teach, they dont lock you up for that. I was a Master level instructor in the Paul Gerni Teaching School, I have solid credentials at Ga Tech University, I now own &amp; run my own school, Power source pool school, &amp; in that school, I am a Master level instructor. Every thing I said is true, there is not one single lie anywhere. Micheal Shamos of the Billiard Digest wrote in the magazine that I was now a Billiards Expert, do you realize what that means, that is a higher honor than a master level instructor. I have been playing pool since WWII, my knowledge base having over a half century behind me is obviously quite extensive. People keep making me list my credentials, then I do, then I am bragging, I cant win. The trap they are putting me in is I am dammed if I do, dammed if I keep my mouth shut now. I do a nice show, and Wonder Dog can whip your a**, dont play him, he's dropped 2 other WPA PROS, I probably can't beat you, but the Dog can.
These people are beating up on the Dog, what has he ever done but make people happy. That's all I want to do now is do shows, shoot trick shots, &amp; teach others what the Greats &amp; geniuses of the game like Ray Schuler taught me, I just want to pass that knowledge on. Keep messing with me, I have a female East Tennesse Mountain Cur named Abbey, I'll put her in a dress &amp; enter her into one of your events. Just kidding. Abbey is Wonder dog 3, and Bubby, a new dog, half poodle, half shin Tzu, that is pronounced sheet su. He is so cool, he's 17 lbs, he is my Wife's baby, Sarah Louise loves him. Wonder dog 5 just arrived, he is a half Georgia Bull Dog &amp; half sheet su, you know what you call him, a Bull S*** Dog. Hast La Vista, Fast Larry Guninger, aka, Larry Grindinger.

cheesemouse
02-17-2003, 11:15 PM
Larry,
I am now convinced...You are what you are and you can't change...you'll tire soon and things will settle down to nice pleasant atmosphere we're all used too. We'll have a fond memory of the pool playing dog.

9 Ball Girl
02-17-2003, 11:20 PM
Hey Mr. Fast Larry. I think you're a class act and am looking forward to meeting you at Valley Forge next month. Oh, and you're little dog too! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As a matter of fact, I think it's about time this thread had a lock on it or perhaps moved to the archives. That seems to work around here from what I've noticed when there seem to be disagreements. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

nAz
02-17-2003, 11:35 PM
you mean with certain peeps lol /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

02-17-2003, 11:40 PM
Dear Mr Karatemon, the Ga Tech article was not written by me, My Hoyt enrolled as a student in my class. I had kids in my class, facility, professors, and any outsider could join in. I taught people of all ages, backgrounds, every race, religion, you name it. I taught paraplegics there, for free. Hoyt wrote about what he saw, I did not know about the article until it was written. He made a mistake about being in the Gunniness book, I never told him that. I have no control over what people write about me, some things take on a life of their own &amp; you cant stamp them out no matter how hard you try. One of these things is going on right now, I am a liar &amp; a fraud, it's like a snowball, once it starts rolling, that's it.
To D Morris 68, you seemed to go to some trouble to dig up something negative about me &amp; post it, are you proud of that, did it make you feel good. Who am I, I have never been a roadie, or a money player. I never tried to be a tournament pro player, could have been, just did not want that life. I am a teacher, a very good one, I am a trick shot shooter &amp; showman, I do exhibitions, I am also very good at this. I was the founder of the world trick shot championship, I was putting on competitions in l995, I made champions at of George Middleditch, Tom Rossman, Rick Wright, Willie Smith &amp; others. I founded the trick shot shooters hall of fame. This venture went poorly, did not make any money as many pool competitions do, so I turned it over to the BCA to pick up &amp; continue with. In 97, I played dead even twice with Tom Rossman &amp; was better than Massey. I beat up on Gerni like he was a rented mule, the guy was not even in my league. By the time of the 1st BCA world championship, I was having severe medical problems, I was then not as good as Rossman &amp; Massey, but should have came in at least 3rd or 4th, no way I could have came in last. I fell off of a tank at a Army post entertaining the troops &amp; broke my foot. I went into that event on crutches, and played with a broken foot, totally expecting to come in last, which I did. I only wanted to be a part of it &amp; to help them get it off the ground which I did. My friend Mike Massey awarded me the sprotsman ship award for the event in 2000. I was very ill, I almost died on the competition floor, and the day I returned home, I had a stroke &amp; almost died. Yes I came in 8th &amp; last, but if I had know people like you would be now using it against me to prove I cant play, I would have stayed home in bed, it was a mistake to even go play. They have 2 more championships, again I am too sick to play in them, so now, somehow I go from 8th to 28th, last in the world, which is obsurd. I discussed this with the director of the BCA, Steve is a fine gentleman, and with Mr. Rossman &amp; Mr. Lillis, both now run the event. All three agreed that this listing was unfair to me &amp; did not reflect my true abilities &amp; they realized people like you were using it unfairly against me. All three agreed to purge my name from the list, they sent out a revised letter to that accord. Somebody forgot to revise the listing on the Web, I'll take care of that, soon my name will vanish. My health problems got worse, in the last l l/2 years I have been crippled, the doctors wrote me a total medical disability &amp; I have a gimp license plate. I could barely walk. For l l/2 yrs, I did not hit a ball, teach a lesson, earn a dime. Mr Lillis has had a major role in my recovery, and I am now in the process of trying to make a come back &amp; get back to work. I am about 75% recovered, I have a long way to go. I dont know if I can pull it off but I am going to try. I recently went out to Hollywood to star on a new prime time premier show, and am booked next month up into Philadelphia, Boston &amp; NYC. HOW I DO ON THAT tour will tell me if I can. If you want to believe I Am THE WORST in the world, that is fine with me, shout it from the roof tops, post it every day, I dont care, I know who I am, what I have done, and how good I was. All you have to do is watch my tapes &amp; the shots I make, then you will know the real truth about that. Fast Larry

02-17-2003, 11:46 PM
To 9 ball girl, no that is not a gun in my pocket, and am I glad to see you, yabba dabba do, what a doll. Wait till old Wonder Dog lays eyes on you, he goes nuts over beautiful ladies, Regards, Fast Larry

02-18-2003, 12:02 AM
Dear Cheesmouse, very cool mouse, neat clipart, I may try &amp; steal it from you, let's see, ctrl, c, lift draw a drag?
You are getting tired of me, I am getting tired of me, if you guys quit calling me a liar, I will shut up, how's that for a deal..I will go on a road trip to Haihira, maybe never come back, ah yes indeed. ..Fast Larry

Karatemom
02-18-2003, 12:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> Dear Mr Karatemon, the Ga Tech article was not written by me, My Hoyt enrolled as a student in my class. I had kids in my class, facility, professors, and any outsider could join in. I taught people of all ages, backgrounds, every race, religion, you name it. I taught paraplegics there, for free. Hoyt wrote about what he saw, I did not know about the article until it was written. He made a mistake about being in the Gunniness book, I never told him that. I have no control over what people write about me, some things take on a life of their own &amp; you cant stamp them out no matter how hard you try. One of these things is going on right now, I am a liar &amp; a fraud, it's like a snowball, once it starts rolling, that's it.
Fast Larry <hr /></blockquote>

Okay, I'll forget if you do, LOL. I know you can't help what others say or write about you, or anyone else for that matter. It was my mistake for mis-reading your post. Let's start anew. I'm Heide, the wife of a player/poster here on the board, but who is unfortunately not here at the moment. Am looking forward to some of your insight into this game.

Heide

Fran Crimi
02-18-2003, 12:42 AM
Larry...you have two names. I only know one of your names.

I just posted a thread called "About Larry" on what I know about you and hope that will help clear things up.

I even saw your picture on your website and didn't make the connection that it was you. If your real name was there I didn't even see it.

I'll take some of the responsibility but you have to take some too. Others here, including myself, reacted that way towards you because all we had to go by was what you posted and how you worded what you said. It came off pretty harsh and know-it-all like. If I had known it was you I would have sent you a private message and explained it to you.

Fran

bluewolf
02-18-2003, 05:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr> Easy BEERWOLF, you are on thin ice....randyg (BCA Master Instructor) <hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BW:</font><hr>I would not be surprised to find out that Fast Larry teaches at a level equal to or far above that of a "BCA Master Instructor". It takes more than just a BCA course to teach well. I don't have firsthand experience with any of the "BCA Masters" but from what I have heard they range from adequate to very good and I don't believe the better ones owe their expertise to a BCA course.
BW <hr /></blockquote>

Randy, I have only taken lessons from two bca instructors: you and Scott. I think both of you are wonderful instructors and I think that your pool school is awesome.

I do think, though, that much of what makes you, Scott and a few others, superb instructors is your attitude, continued quest to learn more and the fact that you are constantly getting even better at the instruction you provide.

blu

bluewolf
02-18-2003, 05:48 AM
Larry,

I would like to meet you at VF also. Do you have a booth?

blu

02-18-2003, 07:40 AM
Larry, I'd just like to go on the record as saying that I *never* said you couldn't play, or even that you lied about your accomplishments. I only stated that I was having trouble verifying it. That's all. I even stated in another post in a different thread that I took you at your word about all the accomplishments you claim. And getting on here and posting about your physical hardships and how you almost died sounds like an attempt to gain sympathy -- we've all had hardships but we don't harp on them every time we post, or when somebody disagrees with us.

Your bragging was not the major issue I had with you. Granted, your bragging was extreme and irritating, but that was not what chapped my rear. Even the fact that you alluded to being in the Guinness Book without actually saying you were, or alluded to being a BCA Master Instructor without actually saying you were (which sounds like being purposefully vague so that folks would naturally draw the wrong conclusion), is not enough to turn me completely off. In your defense, others have said you tend to run thoughts together, and your writing does tend to flow from start to finish in one breath, so most of us probably just misunderstood you. I'm sorry for that.

No, what bothered me was you coming across with blatant disrespect of other posters and their advice on this board. Nobody deserves to be talked down to that way, not even the rank beginners, and certainly not the top players and pros like Scott, Fran, SPetty, Popcorn, Tom_In_Cincy, etc. You might be the greatest pool player on earth, but you aren't the *only* great pool player on this board. You certainly have a right, as we all do, to express your opinion AND your disagreement with someone else's opinion. However you seem to have no grasp of tact and humility in doing so. It's not so much WHAT you say, but HOW you say it. As has been said to you too many times before, everyone here would appreciate and embrace your advice and stories, if only you would deliver it with some respect and consideration of others. Otherwise, as has also been said to you many time, don't be surprised when the members here don't respect you in return.

I still look forward to seeing you in action. I'd like to get some of your tapes as soon as you have them available. You have certainly picqued my interest...

Again, I'm sorry for implying that I doubted your achievements, but not sorry for calling you on your tact. I'm not far from Atlanta, so my next time through town with some time to kill I'd like to buy you a beer and check out your school. Maybe you could introduce me to Wonder Dog? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

David

Edited to add an apology and remove some inappropriate adjectives.

bluewolf
02-18-2003, 09:26 AM
David, you do make some good points. However, as one of the most inexperienced pool players here, I did not feel personally insulted by Larry. I gave him an insult but do not remember that he insulted me.

I guess I just want to say that.

blu

cheesemouse
02-18-2003, 09:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> Dear Cheesmouse, very cool mouse, neat clipart, I may try &amp; steal it from you, let's see, ctrl, c, lift draw a drag?
You are getting tired of me, I am getting tired of me, if you guys quit calling me a liar, I will shut up, how's that for a deal..I will go on a road trip to Haihira, maybe never come back, ah yes indeed. ..Fast Larry <hr /></blockquote>

Larry,
Your welcome to the little guy. Heck, I stole him in the first place. I think steal is a good point when related to all of us pool freaks. We all steal what we can from each other in hopes that it will improve our overall games. If you would take the time to learn the WIE table and diagram that 11 railer so we all could try it out I for one would waste myself trying to do it on my table. I'm pretty sure my stroke would limit me to 8 or 9 rails. I have heard thru PM's (private messages) from some that have seen you in person that say you have a wonderful stroke. This is a small community of pool players who have discovered the Internet and love to share. We share our love for the game, what we know(right or wrong), our humor and even our compassion for those in trouble, witness the Criss Cass drama. This is a nice place with room for all. We all have our rolls to play. I hope you stick around long enough to get a flavor for the place. We can all look back and have a good chuckle. If you think the 'slings and arrows' are sharp here you should try acouple of the other popular message boards. It is brutal in cyberspace but we all find our own governors and slog on...I think if you asked a guestion about pool you would get what we know or atleast what we think we know...as pool players we all learn to adjust or we fail...just a thought...looking forward to stealing what I can from you..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif