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Fred Agnir
02-19-2003, 08:41 AM
Okay, I promise to be nice for once.

Fast Larry teased with:

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Larry G.:</font><hr>If Jesus Christ showed up on the board &amp; said the best way to draw was to hit real low &amp; level with a long follow through, with a stiff wrist, I would argue with him. <hr /></blockquote>

Okay, so, what's the best way? In other words, what would JC have to say about drawing the ball such that you wouldn't argue with him, but rather wholeheartedly agree. And why?

This isn't a troll, as I'm inferring that much of what Larry is going to say about draw matches up with my opinion on the matter.

Fred &lt;~~~ won't say "because I say so, that's why"

bluewolf
02-19-2003, 09:57 AM
I want to know this too because I am doing something wrong on my draw. I am hitting very low,tip near the cloth with a level cue. I get a good draw sometimes but more often than I would like, it just turns into a really nice stop shot. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif Am wondering if I am coming up on the cb or what?

blu

cheesemouse
02-19-2003, 10:34 AM
Blue,
Just for the hell of it the next time your warming up put yourself in slow motion on that draw shot except for the excelleration thru the c/b and see what happens.

Stretch
02-19-2003, 11:59 AM
Eh Fred, Fast Lare must be out walking the dog so i'll just fill in your wait, and i'm sure your waiting with breathless anticipation. lol

Well it was a trick! Everyone knows for draw you hit low and level etc. but NOT with a stiff wrist. So we won't be needin to call Jesus to look at that shot. lol

You got to be loose. Especialy the wrist. Another little trick i picked up here as a matter of fact was seeing "past" the object ball. When you hit it like that, it REALLY jumps back at you. St

02-19-2003, 12:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> Eh Fred, Fast Lare must be out walking the dog so i'll just fill in your wait, and i'm sure your waiting with breathless anticipation. lol

Well it was a trick! Everyone knows for draw you hit low and level etc. but NOT with a stiff wrist. So we won't be needin to call Jesus to look at that shot. lol

You got to be loose. Especialy the wrist. Another little trick i picked up here as a matter of fact was seeing "past" the object ball. When you hit it like that, it REALLY jumps back at you. St



<hr /></blockquote>

stretch, that lookin past the ball thing is a pretty good idea. helps keepthe follow-thru fluid and smooth. funny thing, the draw shot. it's one of the first "tricks" that most of us learn but it's one of the last things we do really well. there must be a thousand different ways to texture that stroke to make the ball do different things. most of the better money players i know will do follow and rails rather than backup just because it's so hard to get it right. sure, we can pull the thing a rail and a half burning cloth as it goes but how about 17 1/2" and a little to the left?

dan

ShayneinDayton
02-19-2003, 12:26 PM
Good point Dan. The first time I ever took a lesson from a BCA instructor I was told: "Draw for show, follow for doe"

Shayne: Can draw a mile and can follow 17.5"

TonyM
02-19-2003, 01:12 PM
I guess I'm not everybody, cause I say you can draw just as well with a stiff wrist as with a loose wrist.

Fred wants Fast Larry to say that should elevate the cue a bit for draw.

Tony
-and I don't neccessarily agree with that either.....

Fred Agnir
02-19-2003, 01:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TonyM:</font><hr> I guess I'm not everybody, cause I say you can draw just as well with a stiff wrist as with a loose wrist.

Fred wants Fast Larry to say that should elevate the cue a bit for draw.

<hr /></blockquote>
I was hoping he'd say to touch the cloth 3" in front of the cueball, follow through as far as you backswing, shape to a dime, use Masters Blue, point the pinky to the east, say a little prayer, click your ruby slippers, and ...

Fred &lt;~~~ does it all

02-19-2003, 02:11 PM
shane,

that's the first time i've heard that one. good. i'll use it.
dan

Barbara
02-19-2003, 06:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You got to be loose. Especialy the wrist. <hr /></blockquote>

I like Fran's explanation of "throwing" the cue at the CB.

And yeah, a loose wrist helps with this technique, too!!

Barbara~~~Yooooooo Stretch!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ObeOne
02-19-2003, 06:35 PM
Something that really helped me was to not only make sure to follow through with a relaxed grip and wrist, but to also make sure to follow the tip through onto the cloth.

Tom_In_Cincy
02-19-2003, 06:47 PM
Question?

If you had ball in hand and the OB was about a ¼ inch off the side rail, a diamond from the corner pocket and you wanted to draw the CB back to the opposite end of the table, how close would you place the CB to the OB? and would you elevate the cue and also, would you use a stiff wrist?

What if you needed to have the same result and the cue ball was by the side pocket lined up straight with the OB. Would you still use an elevated cue? stiff or loose wrist?

If a stiff wrist means, "grip the butt firmly".. I don't like this at all, unless its from that cute little bar maid..

My plan would to be hit the cue ball the same way, but adjust for the difference between the OB and CB. The adjustment would be the speed. Nothing else. Never used a stiff wrist, and have a very reliable draw stroke.

Nor do I jack up.. unless I am on or very near the rail.. and want the rock to draw.

Just curious.

02-19-2003, 11:12 PM
The Draw, you asked, or you grabbed the bait, bobber &amp; sinker &amp; went to the bottom of the lake. Fred, you are trying to draw me out, sounds like you just about know where I am going to go with this, cant wait, can you, sitting there with baited breath. Ah the suspense.
Cheeze, do I ever look at a draw with a camera, dude, is the Pope Catholic, does a bear..... in the woods? I put 3 old TV cameras on every shot, film it, then study all 3 angles, in depth, different speeds down to study frame by frame. I then know exactly how the shot is made, why it is made, and what the physics of it is. I have been deep into this type of study for over a decade, and what I have learned I guess makes me the A**hole I am today, I know everything. Boy did you stumble on to the key to who I am &amp; why. Byrne knows this, he uses people like me to do his work for him, he is very good at getting around a lot of people like me, and taking a lot of their work publishing it, we get a pat on the head. This is how I invented 850 trick shots, more than any other person in history, study, I see something new, I follow it/ It becomes like a tree, things branch off, many times in 4's, you follow them, all 4 of them, they branch again, again. I would be trying to do a thing, something weird would happen, I would stop, study, it branches out, again &amp; again.
I invented 8 new shots by studying a fluke once, that is what you call a shot you donot understand. There is no shot I dont understand. I spent years filming drunks, &amp; studying the shots they missed, drunks will do things with a ball that defy the laws of gravity &amp; physics, well almost. I cant tell you how many things I learned from drunks. The most boring person I know to watch, I learn nothing from is Buddy Hall, straight in shot, straight in shot, love the guy, but perfect pool is one simple shot after another, which is of course the secret to perfect pool. I would call up Byrne &amp; fax him a diagram of this great shot I just invented, he would come back &amp; say sorry Larry, McCleery beat you to it one hundred years ago. I bet that happened 30 times. I was on the same course of study &amp; discovery they were &amp; arriving at the same results &amp; discoveries they did. I knew then, I had become a billiards expert, I did not need a piece of paper to tell me that, and I was shocked some people actually saw that &amp; did acknowledge it.

Blue, you say you follow what all the experts say on how to draw the ball, but your draw sucks. Sit down dude, grab your ankles, take a deep breath, you thought is was you, did it ever occur to you it is them....I'll wait till that one sinks in, they are wrong, took you down the wrong path. Everything everyone has written on this post, is wrong, nobody knows, they are all wrong. Look around you, 95% of the players you see cant draw worth a flip, if the method was right, would not 95% of them draw well???????
I always had a strong draw, when I was young, I set up a straight in shot parallel to the rail, and with a semi level cue, pot the object ball &amp; drew straight back without hitting a side rail &amp; drew 2 table lengths and 4 diamonds. Mike Massey has made the same shot but 2 diamonds less. Hitting a Pique draw from the same position I have drawn over 4 table lengths, I'll bet serious money on this one, so dont ever take me up on this, if you do, as bert says, you are dooooooomed. Blue, you knew something was wrong, and you thought you sucked. Blue, it is not you who sucks.
Hello Mc Fly, knock Knock, it is the experts who suck. Blue, always go with what you know dude, you knew this was not working, then why did you keep doing it. I was very good friends with one of the top gurus in Tennis, somebody who had put several players in Wimbleton. He used to say, never play a losing game, if something is not working, change it, do something, do anything, you might get lucky.

I can walk up to just about anyone, who is not a A player &amp; say to them, if I can teach you how to draw 50% further than you can now and force follow the cue ball 50% further than you can now, will you pay me $30. If I cant, then you dont you owe me nothing. Most say sure, I say put the loot in the pocket. Normally I have the money in my pocket within 15 minutes. I have never lost this bet, never. What we are talking about is one of the biggest screw ups in the history of pool. Do I know how the screw up began, sure that is the key to understanding it, it came from the l94l Willie Hoppe book, Hoppe did nothing wrong, the teachers &amp; writers eventually did not understand what he was teaching &amp; got it all wrong, then one guy just copied the next passing on wrong data until it got to Byrne who passed on the same error. I am the first to say tilt, wrong. Here is what I get for that, I get degraded &amp; ran down &amp; people act like I am nuts, who am I to question the great Hoppe, or the great Byrne, it goes on &amp; one, you even see it on this board, when I question what these guys believe, their reaction is to try &amp; cut my throat, not learn, just shut me up. Little people have little minds.
Why am I into this stuff, I am a disciple of the main guru of golf, Jimmy Ballard. He came along &amp; said, I am right, all of you are wrong, everything you guys have been teaching for the last 20 years is dead wrong, which is why every body plays golf so bad. Guess what, yes, they did to him, what pool experts are doing to me now. Guess what, he was right, they creamed him for a decade, now all of his concepts are accepted. He said, you cant do any athletic move &amp; hold the head still, if you do you destroy all normal athletic coordination &amp; rhythm. You must sway, move your body, get your beef behind it, then thrust your weight into the shot. Move back deep against the wall, then the legs fire first. You dont have to have a stiff left arm. He proved golf was taught wrong, 7 different ways. Where did this come from, secrets of power from Shoeless Joe Jackson, Babe Ruth, Ben Hogan, knowing exactly why they did what they did. All of these priceless secrets were given to me. How did I set all the power records in the sport, talent, hand eye, a natural, luck, I cheated, smoke &amp; mirrors, no, acquired knowledge. So many shots you think are power, are really all technique &amp; knowledge and power has little to do with it, and the draw is the perfect example of this.
This opened my eyes to pool, &amp; I began to see many parallels. All of this is going to go into a book some day. Once I actually stopped to write it in l996, wrote for 3 straight months, never hit a ball, just wrote. Then never finished it, went on to something else, I just could not organize it all, if you knew what went on in my mind you would go mad. I know so F**** much, I cant even find my car keys any more. I began to see pool was teaching things wrong also, and that never changed, because who are you to question the great me. If you do, they ignore you, slander you, run you off as a nut. Are they wrong on the draw, oh bet your A** on that one.

Byrne gave the draw about a paragraph, the most important shot in pool. At the turn of the century, the greatest star in English Billiards was John Roberts, a world champion, a genius. Do any of you know what English billiards is, how it is played, this is a game that had a longer run than straight pool. His son Charles Roberts writes a book in l9ll, which is the sub total of all of the knowledge up to that date. Is this book dated, Jees, I teach today the stance in that book, &amp; many other things. the book is called the compete billiard player. It is published in London, l9ll by Methuens colonial library. I say gov nor, pop over there I pick up a copy, like I did. The book is 300 pages, 275 diagrams. You can learn how to do cannons, Nurse cannons, Jennies, Le Masse &amp; Pique and his fathers advice, that one alone is priceless. Ok on to the draw, you see old boy, the English dont call it English, it is side, a reverse shot is side check, a draw is a screw, a good draw is a deep screw, a table lenght draw is a lovely deep screw, please no sexual thing here, and I hope the 9 ball girl is not reading this &amp; beginning to steam up her contacts. What a doll, see the problem, my mind, it's going here &amp; there, do I need help or what? I cant wait to teach her the lovely deep screw.

Roberts on chapter XII calls it screwing &amp; stabbing, and devotes 14 long pages, the type was small, and 23 diagrams. This was not the main shot in the game, in fact a lessor one, the in off was the shot, or the cannon. Why does Roberts devote this much attention to a shot Byrne virtually ignored. Can it be Roberts knows more about the shot that Byrne. Can it be???????????????

Why all the diagrams, because he knew there were over 17 different draws that had to be mastered, and each one was a different technique. A lot of big time players today are actually doing this &amp; dont know they are, they just picked it up by playing for 20 years, they do what it takes to produce the shot. Our modern experts are telling you one method for all draws, &amp; Roberts said 17, &amp; his method is the exact opposite of what is being taught today, in the BCA school, and by every leading expert I have ran into so far. Guess what, you are all wrong, aint that a hoot dude.

With this new knowledge, I began to teach it at the Hopkins 97 expo, I kept hitting table length draws, once I did 2 table lengths, yes, showing off, come on, when you got it, you got it, you flaunt it. When your hot, your hot. People kept coming up &amp; were saying how in the hell do you do that. Two people came up, both had been around the block trying to learn the draw, &amp; both said, I went to this top guru in Wisc, paid a grand, came home with nothing. I go to this top guru in Florida, dropped a grand, came home with nothing. You have what I want, can you teach it &amp; how Much. I went give me $50 &amp; its yours. In 15 minutes both were smoking the ball, I should have charged them $500 &amp; they would have paid it. Then the light bulb went on, knock knock, these guys went to the 2 top gurus in the game, and they dont know how to teach the friggin draw, I about passed F**** out. Then I began to find out none of them can, then I found out why. I had 3 lady pros come up to me at that expo &amp; I showed them the method free, I never charge a follow pro, never, I call it a professional courtesy, and that does not mean I am going to show things to every one of them either. I was shocked to find out there are lady pros who are up there &amp; know their draw sucks, and told me so. My answer was your teacher sucks, he does not know how to teach the damn thing. All 3 of them were burning the cloth with smoke in minutes, big smile on their faces. 3 years ago, Riveria, Vegas, May. I am bopping down the aisle, actually limping down the aisle, I was playing in the first BCA world trick shot championship on a broken foot that was not healed, hugh mistake, I damaged the break, it healed poorly, then it developed bone spurs, then arthritis, I have been in so much pain because of that, I even thought about cutting the damn thing off. I am bopping down the Isle &amp; these people are trying to shoot table length, &amp; draw back to the side pocket. Draw back 4 diamonds. I stopped, watch them flog around, &amp; I said excuse me, they dont have a clue who I am &amp; dont today, that is not the way you do it. Ok they said, show me, no problem I said, then I said, you give me a rock from da moon and this piece of S*** cue that's firewood, I dont know, they begin to snear at me, bang wap, lst snap, the ball goes down, pots, draws back table length 8 diamonds &amp; freezes on the end rail. I said dats the way you do it. I limped off dragging my leg like Walter Brennen. I get about 50 yrds &amp; somebody grabs me collar &amp; says come back, show that to me again. Show me how to do that, it was Robin Bell, and I am going, she's been out there before cars, &amp; you had a ride trigger to the pool hall &amp; tie him up to a hitchin post and she does not know this. So blue dont feel bad dude, you are in a big crowd, nobody has a fargin clue what to do but me.

What is the secret in the Roberts book, allow me to give you the direct quote from the man himself: Quote from l9ll, "Screwing and stabbing, let me say at once that to teach screwing by means only of printed words is next to impossible. What, however I can show you is when screws are necessary and how to apply screw in given cases. The rest its rudiments, that is, you must acquire from a skilled teacher more proficient that yourself. Such a friend, can in five minutes take you farther than you can go reading five hours of written instruction. He went on to say, you must have a instructor, and a good book you rely on. You cant learn from the book, or by a written text on this board, for me to do so, Mr. Roberts says cant be done, he tells you, go to a teacher who knows my system. Your task now, is to find that teacher that knows the system &amp; go to him, or wait for my book to come out, who am I to argue with the Great Mr. Roberts of England.
Shoot straight, innovate and never give up no matter how bad it looks, just run out on the other dude, then you cant lose. Play with no fear, Regards, Fast Larry Guninger

02-19-2003, 11:46 PM
Tom Cincy, Byrne likes a stiff wrist, who am I to say that is wrong, I can tell you this, Mosconi did not play that way, he had one of the most beautiful wrist flick through the ball I have ever seen, so did Greenleaf, so did Hoppe, sorry I teach these peoples secrets, what they did, how they did it, Bob teaches you what Bob does. I bend my wrist back to acquire extra power sometimes. Your first question, I would probably eltivate the cue some, on the 2nd one in the side pocket, the shot you described, I would have to see it set up on a table exactly to answer it, but probably not, there I probably would be fairly low &amp; level, I do shoot that shot sometimes, especially if I am really stretched out. I teach, every shot is a different method.
You have to be careful shooting any jack up draws, especially if you are too close to the object ball &amp; too close to the pocket. Experience tells you when not to, if you jack up, you do jump the CB &amp; it needs time to get back down on the cloth. The shot you described brings back a nightmare, I was a team captain a few years ago, apa 7, won the city, in Vegas. I have a 6, older guy, tons of experience, I called him the ice man, cool guy, liked to drink, liked to gamble. Very very stong 6 if you know what I mean. He faced that shot in the side pocket in a match against a lady 3 who was a sandbagged 5, he jacked up, hit it hard, tried to draw down table to break up a cluster which he did, but the ball went in the pocket &amp; came back out, he came over to the bench cussin a blue steak, GD tables. I said I have been out here checking out these tables long before you got here, these tables are perfect, brand new, the cloth is new, the balls are new, missing that shot had nothing to do with the table or the equipment, it was you, he looks are me funny. He said that table has a bad pocket, I said no it does not, there is nothing wrong with that pocket. He said I shot that ball right in the heart of that pocket &amp; it came out, I said yes you are correct, you did, but your technique was wrong, you jacked up, hit it too hard, technically what you did, and it occured so fast you cannot see it, was you jumped the cue ball where it landed on the middle top of the object ball, which jumped it so it struck the top of the pocket &amp; the ball bounced out. You performed a double jump shot. If that shot comes up again, go into that pocket, but this time level you cue if you have to hit hard, so you wont jump. This lady is killing him, they, get down to hill hill, he has to win or we go home, and that damn shot comes up, exactly like before, oh you bet, time out, up I come, go through the same routine, I sit down, he is pacing back &amp; forth like a lion in a cage in a zoo, he is now beginning to sweat, &amp; he begins to mumble over &amp; over, damn side pocket, lousy side pocket, he refuses to take the shot, tries a l0% bank, misses, the lady runs out, &amp; I am sitting there almost comotose, they almost had to hook me up to a respirator. We lose &amp; are on a plane home because he refused to shoot a straight in shot hard &amp; just level his cue. Most pool players are their own worst enemies. The answer to your question sir, is every shot, requires a different technique, no 2 shots are ever the same, I dont have pat answers, I dont teach any thing that works for everything, that is what the other guys do. Fast Larry

nAz
02-20-2003, 12:34 AM
FL I like you, that's a heck of a story hope "ice man" learned his lesson.
by the way i think BW is a gal not a dude hahaha

02-20-2003, 12:50 AM
Hi shaynein, how are you doing tonight, a bca instructor says draw for show &amp; follow for doe, that one makes me want to puke it is so bad. He stole that one from Golf, drive for show &amp; putt for dough, which is just about as dumb, you cant putt for a par, if you dont drive it long in the fairway first. When I was young, I developed a very stong draw, I could do any thing with it, I got so good at it, I rarely followed, and when I got on a bar box &amp; that game is now reversed, you dont want to draw &amp; only follow if you can, I played a poor game. I had a poor follow, because I always choose the draw. You can put the ball in most places &amp; ask me to go down table or 3 rails to a spot, and I can get to the same place by hitting a draw, or a follow. I had to work really hard to build up my follow to be equal with my draw, today it is a stronger shot. That is what I teach &amp; recommend, make both shots, equal in skill, never favor one. One is not better than the other one, kill that idea now, say computer erase draw to show &amp; follow for da dough, delete file, say this 20 times, over &amp; OVER. When the shot comes up, pick the shot that is the easiest to make, not the shot you like the best. What if all you have is a big follow &amp; that path is blocked, and the only way to get there is a big force draw.
Never favor a shot, or think one is better than the other one, fatal thinking. Most feel &amp; teach you can hit better position with a follow than a draw because you see the follow better than the draw. Did it ever occur to you to just hit the draw with a upright stance, so you can see that line &amp; spot also, more flawed thinking. The answer again is to practice both, so both shots are again equal in skill level to you. So much of this stuff is nothing but plain old country horse sense, dont make this game harder to play than it really is, keep it simple &amp; fun. Shoot straight, innovate &amp; never give up, Regards, Fast Larry

02-20-2003, 01:47 AM
Dear Mr Stretch, everyone knows that you hit the draw low &amp; level with a long follow through,yo, hold da horses, stop da band, not every one, I dont know that. Did Moses come down off the mountain with that carved in stone? You guys tend to think these things you hang on to are commandements direct from God, you must obey.
You dont, Fast say's you are free, you can now think on your own, how scary is that one. Let me prove this point for you, set up the Circular draw trick shot, Mike Massey hits this shot better than any one I know. This was a favorite of the great cowboy Jimmy Moore, that dude was as good as Mosconi. Now shoot that shot that way, guess what, you can shoot it that way for a thousand years &amp; never make it, which is why only a small handfull of people in the world can, why, because they dont do it your friggin way...

Put a ball in front of a corner pocket, walk up table, drop whitey in the kitchen, any where, now shoot down table, pot the ball, this is vital, you cant touch any rail coming back, not the rails around the corner either, hit the ball flush, draw back up table 8 diamonds &amp; hit the end rail if you can, and dont cheat, do it with a perfect level cue, and use a very long follow through, what the hell, use a stiff wrist also. On a 6x12 I did that &amp; came all the way up table &amp; back down table to the side pockets. I dont use a level cue on this shot. Once you try these two shots, then you will understand, somebody's been telling you something that does not hold water. Once you realize this, then you will begin to listen to me, maybe, probably not. Let me bottom line this for you, I only show people the path, I do not walk down that path with them, and I wish you luck sir, in finding the truth here. You know a lot of people get in their comfort zone &amp; don't want to be jolted out of it by some crazy nut like me, who dont no nuttin. The glass is half full, the glass is half empty, Regards, Fast Larry

bluewolf
02-20-2003, 05:16 AM
FL,

Thanks for the answer that you gave.

The way I learned draw (last summer) was hit low and level and vary stroke speed. This works fine for my husband who took the same lesson. He practiced it for two months every day so I thought maybe I did not practice it enough. Also since it seems to work sometimes and not other times, I figured I must be doing something inconsistently.

Then I took pool school. They taught draw a little different using the tip method ie 1 tip low etc and also varying stroke speed somewhat.The cue is still level.

I can draw the ball from what I learned 30 years ago but it is a bar room draw if you know what I mean.

blu aka Laura

Fred Agnir
02-20-2003, 07:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> The Draw, you asked, or you grabbed the bait, bobber &amp; sinker &amp; went to the bottom of the lake. Fred, you are trying to draw me out, sounds like you just about know where I am going to go with this, cant wait, can you, sitting there with baited breath. Ah the suspense. <hr /></blockquote>
I think the suspense comes about 500 words later.



[ QUOTE ]
He said, you cant do any athletic move &amp; hold the head still, if you do you destroy all normal athletic coordination &amp; rhythm. <hr /></blockquote>

Interestingly (to me, at the very leasst), here's what I've aid on the subject:

I have physiological theories, and that's it: theories. Of course, I
know the physics of what gets draw, but I've always been more
concerned with the easiest movements for the human body. THat's what
separates better players from worse players, physically. The better
players are able to coordinate all of the parts in motion. In every
physical endeavor, that is absolutely necessary. It is actually much
harder (not easier as some here like to suggest) to execute shots when
limiting or reducing the amount of body parts involved. I'll insult
everyone by saying that unless you coach or have been coached
mechanics at other athletic endeavors like golf, tennis, free throws,
baseball, then you (general) may not have a clue as to what I'm
talking about. It ain't about the physics. It's about body mechanics.

What do you think Larry? I think your knowledge on the subject and my own assessment are pretty damned close. I'm willing to listen, but man I beg you to keep the verbage to a minimum.

Fred &lt;~~~ easing in

Wally_in_Cincy
02-20-2003, 07:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> FL,

Thanks for the answer that you gave.<hr /></blockquote>

What answer? I must have missed it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
02-20-2003, 07:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr>
....I set up a straight in shot parallel to the rail, and with a semi level cue, pot the object ball &amp; drew straight back without hitting a side rail &amp; drew 2 table lengths and 4 diamonds.....<hr /></blockquote>

We know a fellow named Patrick who can draw 7 table lengths. Of course that was when he was Beelzebub. Now that he's an alien he doesn't play anymore.

bluewolf
02-20-2003, 09:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> FL,

Thanks for the answer that you gave.<hr /></blockquote>

What answer? I must have missed it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Well, here is what I got from his answer:

1)My instructors taught me wrong (right for them)
2)There is no KISS.There are 17 different draw shots and each one is executed with a different technique.
3)To learn his method, I would have to pay for lessons from him because he only gives his secrets free to pros.
4)Since I am not a pro, I would have to pay.

See FL, I was paying attention. If I misunderstood anything you said, please accept my apology.

Now I was taught draw from Master BCA instructors. Since I am not an advanced student, anyone who is and who has successfully mastered BCA methods, please speak up here and tell me if you think I am coming up on the cb.CM says to do it slow motion.

Like I said, I can do a barroom draw with a poke stroke. I quit doing it because I worked hard to develop a good stroke and did not want to mess it up.

Laura

Popcorn
02-20-2003, 09:18 AM
I deleted my original post, I figured, what is the point.

Wally_in_Cincy
02-20-2003, 09:24 AM
I believe she was joking.

02-20-2003, 09:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Is Scott no longer your Hero? You are now mesmerized by this guy? How can you turn on Scott like that, a really nice guy and good teacher and begin listening to this wac-job? <hr /></blockquote>

poper, i thjink you may have given me the opening i needed. i've wanted to make a point without being critical of anyone in particular. you know how i hate being critical.

"a man with two clocks, never knows what time it is."

that's it. that's the point. it's an old adage. what it's trying to say is that people who are constantly opinion-shopping are always confused. i see this sometimes. they want to learn so much that they are constantly asking the same question to different people and then they get all confused because they get somewhat different answers. sometimes, they will fall in love with the latests guru and be a true believer for a while till another one comes along.

my suggestion is simple. if you are really trying to learn then shop around till you find someone with the experience and reputation and then resolve to stay with them. not forever, necessarily, but long enough to really get what they are trying to give you. ultimately, a lot of this stuff is muscle memory and, man, that takes time to get embedded.

fwiw

dan

bluewolf
02-20-2003, 10:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> I believe she was joking. <hr /></blockquote>Tongue in cheek.

Scott's method works well for ww who practiced it extensively. WW is an apa 7. I was much more a beginner when I took scott's lesson and needed to work on mastering more of the fundamentals like stroke, bridge, eye movements, stance etc. Randy's pool school also emphasized the fundamentals and some other things,especially for the advanced students, although individual attention was given for each person's needs.

So you really cannot compare the two. Scott's was a private lesson including a video and I got it before I began the apa session and I was terrified because I had never gotten a lesson. He was very nice but I was still pretty scared.I was glad after I relaxed that I had to video so I could watch it and especially see scott’s fundamentals.I went to pool school about 2 months later so was a little better (not much but a little).He video taped things we did every day so that we could see how we improved. Randy's (also a very nice guy)was a three day pool school which was very individualized but much longer so more topics could be covered. Both addressed the draw, although like I said, scott was working with me more on fundamentals. I watched rays tape from scott on the draw so that I could start to learn it. I have practiced the draw some but not whole heartedly like ww did.

I feel that I am at the point now where I am ready to try a few other things. Since scott and randy teach the draw very similar and both of them draw well with control, I certainly will practice what they exposed me to.

As far as Larry's method, sure I am curious and would listen to what he has to say. I believe I call that being polite. It does not however mean jumping ship, taking what he says hook, line and sinker. It means listening to what someone says who is better than me just like I listen to all of you here because you know more than me.

Also , when I mentioned having a problem with my draw, it never occured to me that he would say everyone was wrong. I thought the opposite, that Scott and Randy and others that teach the level cue way were right and that it was everybody else that was wrong. So I thought that Larry or other CCB folks would suggest ways to troubleshoot like CM did. My height on the cb seems good and the cue is level so was thinking I need a 'snap' and my timing is off or soomething or I am raising up and do not realize it.

So I did not realize that I was opening a can of worms.

I should have known. No offense meant, Larry, but you do tend to say you are right and others are wrong.

So yes what I wrote was somewhat humourous. I also am not sure what he means by 17 different shots. It seems like to do some of the shots would mean using a poke shot, which is what I did 30 years ago before I learned a decent stroke.

So I will put in the time to learn a decent draw. I figure doing it at all is good for my sl and hopefully will be decent at it when I am an sl4 or sl5, whichever is typical.

[Sometimes it seems I will never get there, though. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif]

I hope this isnt coming across with the clarity of mud.

And yeah hd, I know that you dont like to criticize. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Laura

PS I have tried quick fixes and they were only temporary. Usually the technique I had was fine, it was just relaxing and not thinking that I needed and table time.So today, I just keep going to the table and shooting shots and paying attention to fundamentals.

TonyM
02-20-2003, 11:29 AM
You have Ruby slippers?

Damn!

Tony
-jealous.....

TonyM
02-20-2003, 11:42 AM
Fred, my eyes glazed over somewhere about half way through Larry's post. Very entertaining mind you.....

But, did he ever tell you the secret of great draw?

Tony
-I know, you have to draw it out of him.....

Rich R.
02-20-2003, 11:51 AM
Larry typed a whole bunch of words, when he simply could have typed, "I ain't tell'in."

bluewolf
02-20-2003, 11:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TonyM:</font><hr> Fred, my eyes glazed over somewhere about half way through Larry's post. Very entertaining mind you.....

But, did he ever tell you the secret of great draw?

Tony
-I know, you have to draw it out of him..... <hr /></blockquote>

I thought he implied that there are 17 different ones.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Laura

Anonamus
02-20-2003, 12:02 PM
Blue Wolf,

I have been reading your post for a while now and it seems to me that you are overly concerned with your skill level and are just trying way too hard. In order to play good pool you have to be relaxed. You must have a loose wrist and you have to be able to accelerate through the ball. You can't do any of that if you are stiff and nervous.

RELAX and have some fun!

Next time you're at the pool table just throw some balls on the table and forget about mechanics and all that stuff you've been learning and practising for a while and just shoot. Who cares if the ball goes in or if the CB draws back? Relax, exaggerate your follow through and flick your wrist a little with both the follow and draw. You may be surprised what you can make the CB do.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the proper way to stroke the CB is to flick the wrist, I'm just trying to give you a way to loosen up. Once you see how it feels to get that ball rolling then you should go back to what Scott Lee taught you but keep in the back of your mind the feeling you get when your stroke is uninhibited.

And please, don't rush it, it will come. Plus, you're making me a nervous wreck worrying about your progress.

It's a mind game, you've got to get your mind in the right place.

Popcorn
02-20-2003, 12:04 PM
By all means, don't discount anything. Take it all in and then sift through it and finds what works for you. There are right and wrongs but mostly gray areas where you will find what is best for you. I think the hardest in learning something is sorting through all the contradictory information out there, this applies to everything. I am trying make some changes in my health insurance. I thought if I really studied it and really checked into it I would be able to make an informed choice. After a week I am more confused then ever. Ten people tell you ten different things and all seem to know what they are talking about. I am sorry what I said, I tried to delete it, but someone responded before I could.

bluewolf
02-20-2003, 12:04 PM
Thanks!!!!

Laura

bluewolf
02-20-2003, 12:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> By all means, don't discount anything. Take it all in and then sift through it and finds what works for you. There are right and wrongs but mostly gray areas where you will find what is best for you. I think the hardest in learning something is sorting through all the contradictory information out there, this applies to everything. I am trying make some changes in my health insurance. I thought if I really studied it and really checked into it I would be able to make an informed choice. After a week I am more confused then ever. Ten people tell you ten different things and all seem to know what they are talking about. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Popcorn!!!
Laura

eg8r
02-20-2003, 12:14 PM
[ QUOTE ]
But, did he ever tell you the secret of great draw? <hr /></blockquote> Nope. I am sure he tells that after lesson 6, but right before lesson 7 where you receive the wonderful book of knowledge.

eg8r

bluewolf
02-20-2003, 12:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
But, did he ever tell you the secret of great draw? <hr /></blockquote> Nope. I am sure he tells that after lesson 6, but right before lesson 7 where you receive the wonderful book of knowledge.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

I know you guys are just being funny. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I only know two draws... Bar draw---chop down on cb and hit it hard with a chop stroke and cb pops back a good ways. I can do that. That is the one that randy g got me to stop doing!!! The bca way, low and level, follow with a good stroke. Varying either tip height and/or ball speed and controlling distance the cb comes back. Now that is something--when i get a draw it is one diamond or 3-4, never two..just cannot get that 2 diamond draw. And 50% of the time it just stop shots...Guess itll take time... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

As far as Larry holdin out on us mere mortals who stand in the wings with baited breath /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif..no point in talkin bout being in the know if a person is not going to put the goods where their mouth is. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Laura

Stretch
02-20-2003, 12:31 PM
Dear Mr Fast. Golly i forgot to mention that there are lots of specialty draw shots that don't follow the norm as far as cueing go. I thought maybe you'd give me that one. Whatever. I'll forgive you for assuming that we all think there is only one stroke for getting draw. Some notable exceptions would be. Masse', nip-draw, snap-back draw, banana-draw, runnthrough draw, jump-draw, power-draw (the long distance cousin of the jump draw) I'm sure there are many more. So your revelation about 17 types of draw shots is not very shocking.

By the way, that table length shot to draw back a table length? Big freekin deal. It looks real cool if your into exibition shots, or showing off. I'm not. I'd rather go rail first and come back. It's easy. Why do you do everything the hard way? If you'd like some instruction on "practicle shots", and when to use them, I'm sure i could help you out. Mister to you, Stretch

02-20-2003, 03:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> Dear Mr Fast. Golly i forgot to mention that there are lots of specialty draw shots that don't follow the norm as far as cueing go. I thought maybe you'd give me that one. Whatever. I'll forgive you for assuming that we all think there is only one stroke for getting draw. Some notable exceptions would be. Masse', nip-draw, snap-back draw, banana-draw, runnthrough draw, jump-draw, power-draw (the long distance cousin of the jump draw) I'm sure there are many more. So your revelation about 17 types of draw shots is not very shocking.

By the way, that table length shot to draw back a table length? Big freekin deal. It looks real cool if your into exibition shots, or showing off. I'm not. I'd rather go rail first and come back. It's easy. Why do you do everything the hard way? If you'd like some instruction on "practicle shots", and when to use them, I'm sure i could help you out. Mister to you, Stretch

<hr /></blockquote>

oh, oh....

ol stretch don't rile easy but if'n he does, it's best for you if you look like wallpaper.

dan

02-20-2003, 07:21 PM
To: Fred, you asked me to review what you said &amp; keep my verbage &amp; comment to a minimum, no problem, my review, very cool dude.
Wally in Cincy, you give me the finger, sorry pal, you dont drag me down in your sewer, I wont give the the bird back, 2 wrongs never make a right.
Laura, very good, it was 17, it's not that they cant read, it is that they cant believe what they read. I did not say that, I just quoted you what Roberts said in l9ll. I dont think it is 17, I think it is more than that. Ben Hogan wrote a golf book, it said for power &amp; to hit straight, connection was the key, to never let the lat under your left arm pull loose from touching the underside of the left arm during the swing, a hugh inside tip. Ballard told me would go out the the range after the book came out and
there would be l0 guys practicing just like Ben told them to, put a hanki under their left arm, swing &amp; hit the ball with out it coming loose &amp; hitting the ground. The problem was they all had the hanki under their right arm pits.
I see great players in every pool hall that draw the ball beautifully, great pro's, male &amp; female, that draw the ball beautifully. Somehow they figure it out, stumble on to it, or have a good friend that helps them &amp; they acquire the shot. Two of the hardest things I face in teaching the beginner is how to draw &amp; how to cut. The draw is a tough thing to teach, a tough thing to learn. My job gets harder when somebody teaches the guy wrong, then I have to go in &amp; erase his brain &amp; start over. It's a hugh waste of the poor guys time &amp; money.
To the dude who said I was a Wacko, who knows, dude, you could be right. When the Wright Brothers first flew on l2-17-03, 99% of the people who heard the news called them the same thing, nobody could possible do that. Don't ever hold on to any opinion or thing like it's holy scripture, I cant tell you how many times I have done that, only to later be proved I was wrong. The difference between me &amp; some others is I listen, I change, I learn, I grow, which is why I know so much. Some of the people on this board come off like those 3 monkeys, you know, one with his hands over his ears, another hands over his eyes.
To: Tony M, no I dont have any ruby slippers, but it sounds like you tip toe thru the tulips with a pair on. Yes I am from Kansas, how did you figure that one out. Grew up hunting along the banks of the Marais Des Cygnes river. They said I was a pretty cool kid, then one day a green Osage Orange fell from a tree &amp; hit me on the head, knocked me clean out, when I woke up &amp; came to all I could say is they are teaching the damn draw all wrong, they say I have never been right since...Best Wishes, Fast Larry Grindinger
www.fastlarrypool.com (http://www.fastlarrypool.com)

02-20-2003, 07:36 PM
Dear Addict, what are you strung out on dude? Send me a pound of it fast Fed X, it must be good s***. As far as your most generous offer to instruct me &amp; mend my crooked ways of teaching, I need your help like I need a dose of the clap....You want to teach free, help all these poor souls to see the true scripture, thou shalt draw low &amp; level, with a long follow through, with a stiff wrist. Yo- Yo, Why hit the ball flush &amp; not hit a rail coming out, because it is the only way to measure the true draw, coming off the rail &amp; getting up table length, My 85 yr old momma can do that shot, and what do you do if all you know how to do is come up table off of the rail, what if there is a ball on the rail??????I should not tell you this, I dont want you running out to buy a dress, but I can hit &amp; make the friggin shot one handed...Fast Larry

Rod
02-21-2003, 12:18 AM
Larry,
Did it ever occur to you most questions are in general? Of course there are many types of strokes to get the c/b to respond for each shot. I think your selling a number of people short here. I disagree with making the Jimmy Moore shot using wrist, it can be done it's just not the best way. It loses a lot of heat most times to much when the c/b bounces with that type of stroke. I discovered that shot by accident in the 60's and added balls to make it more interesting. I hit it real sweet, hell the c/b is smokin! Put me in that handful but there is a lot more than you think. Then many years later only to discover that it was in Robin's book. I was suppose to send him a couple but I never did. The first time I ever seen anyone shoot that shot was Rempe about 12 years ago. There's a guy here that can draw his ball to Texas but he can't make that shot.

Advanced draw or follow stroke techniques are tough to teach. The person has to have dead solid mechanics and deliver the cue right on target at a given rate of acceleration for each shot. They have to feel the timing it takes. Some guy decides he wants to shoot some spectacular shot he saw, then jumps out of his shoes thinking it takes a lot of force. It may very well take a fair amount of force they just go about the wrong way. People like that forget there is this moment when the cue gradually starts forward. Like golf or throwing a baseball it doesn't all happen the split second they start forward. Not only that it doesn't help if the instrument is janked backwards. As ye go back so shall ye return in most cases.
Like I said give people a little more credit, it's hell to have to add a bunch of disclaimers everytime someone states an opinion.

Speaking of which I use to hunt and fish a little on the Marais Des Cygnes. Maybe you were that kid that took a shot at me. I don't look like a rabbit. Just kidding with you but I was shot at there and a couple of other times. They must have shot like they played pool! I believe you did get hit on the head by that orange! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I don't remember seeing one of those trees though. Well I was a teenager so what did I know.

Rod

Wally_in_Cincy
02-21-2003, 07:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr>
.....Wally in Cincy, you give me the finger, sorry pal, you dont drag me down in your sewer, I wont give the the bird back, 2 wrongs never make a right.......<hr /></blockquote>

Hey Larry, it's a <font color="red">joke</font color>. I'm sorry you don't get it.

Unfortunately when you call people stupid or accuse them of being crossdressers I think you are <font color="red">serious</font color>.

Geez...

Wally in the Natti

02-21-2003, 08:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr>
.....Wally in Cincy, you give me the finger, sorry pal, you dont drag me down in your sewer, I wont give the the bird back, 2 wrongs never make a right.......<hr /></blockquote>

no, larry, wally is not flipping you the bird. he (or his surrogate) is flipping everybody the bird. that's different.

-or-

he says " you're #1"

-or-

look what i found in my nose

-or-

never operate the band-saw stoned

-or-

wanna ride the boney pony?


dan

Stretch
02-21-2003, 11:55 AM
OK here we go slow Larry. Were you weaned on a pickle or something? I never advocated hitting ANYTHING with a stiff wrist (although for you i might make an exception). This sight is not about teaching for free or for pay or for anything else for that matter, it's about SHAREING. New concept i'm sure. For your information, yes, i can make this shot. And if i live long enough, it might even come up in a game, and maybe, just maybe there will be a ball or two on the rail preventing me from showing your 85 year old Momma up and force me to at long last and ha-lay-lew-ya crank off a table length draw shot and come all the way back perfect for the game winner tight to the middle of the head rail for a tap in win. Then i will triumphantly raise my cue in the air while looking up in the stands where I'm sure you'll be sitting proudly with tears of joy in your eyes, ribbing Wonder dog and saying "Yep, i told Stretch about that shot, and dang nab it i still say, it's the ooooooonly way to measure true draw" Whereapon i'll yell up "Hey SLOW! IT MEASURED 9 FEET!" St

Scott Lee
02-21-2003, 12:48 PM
Stretch...But to truely top it off, you'd have to THROW your cue down on the table! Then you'd be the incarnate! LMAO

Scott

bigbro6060
02-22-2003, 07:49 AM
cmon guys, u gotta admit, Fast Larry's diction and stories make for bloody fun reading!

agree or disagree with his info, you can't deny the fun of the delivery /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

as for the draw, for 99% of draw shots, for me a firm wrist is just fine because it aids consistency and i get enough spin, but i have experimented with flicking the wrist with the draw shot and the amount of extra spin i get is considerable but of course accuracy suffers because i haven't practised it enough

bluewolf
02-22-2003, 08:44 AM
Being a beginner in the art of drawing, I think I found out what part of my problem was. When I was prestroking low, it looked like I was doing it right.When I locked my eyes onto the ob, the cue tip apparently was coming up .5 to 1.0 tip, resulting in a stop shot. It does not mean I can draw great, but if I look at the cb the whole time, at least I can do it better.

Not sure about my wrist. I know that my grip is light but never payed attention to my wrist.

It looks like back to the drilling board /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Laura

woody_968
02-26-2003, 05:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> Being a beginner in the art of drawing, I think I found out what part of my problem was. When I was prestroking low, it looked like I was doing it right.When I locked my eyes onto the ob, the cue tip apparently was coming up .5 to 1.0 tip, resulting in a stop shot. It does not mean I can draw great, but if I look at the cb the whole time, at least I can do it better.

Not sure about my wrist. I know that my grip is light but never payed attention to my wrist.

It looks like back to the drilling board /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Laura <hr /></blockquote>
This is a common problem blue, one thing you can try is to look at the spot on the object ball that corrolates with the spot on the cue ball you want to hit.
As in if you want to draw, look low on the object ball instead of in the middle as your mind will try to drive the cue to that spot.
I have played around with this a bit and it does help some.

02-26-2003, 09:56 PM
Dear Rod, what a beautiful post, you sure know what you are talking about, when you have a great draw, &amp; under stand it has nothing to do about power, then you understand the shot, and you sir do. About you hunting along the river, if you got shot at, yes it was me, If you crossed the river &amp; tresspassed on my farm &amp; began to poach my prairie chickens &amp; quail, I gave you a warning shot, to scare you &amp; to run you off. If I wanted to hit you, then you would be dead. I used a l943 remington .22, I could hit a squirrel between the eyes in the top of a big oak tree. You weren't worth killing.

02-26-2003, 10:08 PM
Dear Scott, you gotta take your little pot shot &amp; try &amp; ridicule me every chance you get dont you, yes, you are a real pro doing that. Would you like to know, the Great Charlie Peterson did that when he hit a great shot. The great Jack Nicklaus won the masters &amp; when the putt went in he threw his putter 30' straight up into the air, then every one covered their heads when it came down. I am sorry I have Elan, &amp; you dont even know what that is.
Fast Larry

Troy
02-26-2003, 10:16 PM
Is there anything you do that is not perfect ???
Seems your ego is on steroids ???

02-26-2003, 10:46 PM
Dear Troy, thanks for the slam &amp; insult, your answer, sure, I am smart enough to go out &amp; buy a 50 cent Triangle &amp; not blow $9 for some over priced gimmick that wont play any better than my 50 center. You see I am not perfect, now you can prove that by telling everyone how cheap I am. Throw mud on me, I throw mud back on you. Fast Larry

02-26-2003, 10:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> Is there anything you do that is not perfect ???
Seems your ego is on steroids ??? <hr /></blockquote>


troy, been watching this crazy-larry stuff for a while and i think that what we've got here is a "failure to communicate." the problem, as i see it, is that most of us are functioning at or near 2003 and larry is a product of maybe 1955 or so.

now larry, quit cussin till i'm done.

there was a time there were a lot of guys wandering around the country making a living puting on trick shot shows, selling the occasional cue, hustling a little (especially on propositions) and stealing the odd chicken.

3 ft. of black rubber hose and the ford will make it to galesburg.

these guys weren't really the hustler roadies we think of who come in under the radar wearin bib-overalls with stuff on their shoes. nope. these guys were entertainers. maybe the perfessor in the music man might be a better picture. they had to draw a crowd and keep it there to sell anything or get any of the propositions working. bigger.louder.

hell of a way to make a living. hard. hard.

consequently, they, like ol fats, would come with all kinds of outrageous shtick about being the biggest, baddest, bestest and fastest. i don't get that he comes with any real malice and i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

it's a dieing breed, traveling pool showman. the only new one i can think of is our own scott lee and i understand he hardly ever steals chickens anymore. but, how much you bet he's still got the hose?

dan

02-26-2003, 11:02 PM
Dear Addict, did that make you feel good to go into that tirade and slander &amp; degrade &amp; demean me &amp; my good name. Now you call me a thief, on the internet. Allow me to now warn you, doing this to any one, is not very smart, nor is it very safe. That sir is my advice. Why would I go steal a chicken, I own a farm and have hundreds of the damn things running around. I am not a thief, and any one who calls me one, is mistaken. I dont hustle, con or lie to people about what I do, I just teach &amp; entertain, why do you have a problem with this? Fast Larry Guninger

02-26-2003, 11:10 PM
To Fred: Do you realize this question drew 976 responses &amp; 54 posts &amp; I never answered the damn question. Can you imagine what it would have drawn, had I actually spilled the beans? Regards, Fast Larry Guninger

Kato
02-26-2003, 11:20 PM
Larry, you missed Dan's point. I'm afraid you don't understand his mentality.

Kato

02-26-2003, 11:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> Dear Addict, did that make you feel good to go into that tirade and slander &amp; degrade &amp; demean me &amp; my good name. Now you call me a thief, on the internet. Allow me to now warn you, doing this to any one, is not very smart, nor is it very safe. That sir is my advice. Why would I go steal a chicken, I own a farm and have hundreds of the damn things running around. I am not a thief, and any one who calls me one, is mistaken. I dont hustle, con or lie to people about what I do, I just teach &amp; entertain, why do you have a problem with this? Fast Larry Guninger <hr /></blockquote>

this is getting too funny. i feel like i'm in something by early-bogdonovich.

larry. i was kinda on your side there. that was what we call "humor". and (you'll love this), to use your own stuff on you, i did not say you were a chicken thief. i said there used to be a lot of those runnin around. so there! i expcect a retraction forthwith. (more humor there lar. ya gotta watch for that)

also, i note that you did not take opbjection to and therefore agreed with the allegation that mr. lee steals chickens. therefore, you have libeled and slandered mr.lee and as his good friend and attorney (lic.pend.), i shall demand redress as soon as i look that one up.

anyway, reread my post about you when you are in a better mood and you might see that i was actually taking your side of things. sort of.

and let me say, once and for all here and now that, contrary to the allegation alleged, CRAZY-LARRY DOES NOT STEAL CHICKENS to my direct knowledge and where i could actually, with my own eyes, see him do it. i hope that puts to bed the scurrilous rumor begun here by mr. larry hizownself. (not me)

dan...(esq.pend.)

02-26-2003, 11:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr> Larry, you missed Dan's point. I'm afraid you don't understand his mentality.

Kato <hr /></blockquote>

we have no mentality of which we are aware.

dan

02-27-2003, 01:08 AM
Dear Mr. Addict, thanks for the reply, as for me not jumping in to defend Mr. Lee of being a chicken thief, sir I dont have the time to defend every one you attack, it is up to them to do that. You know if you come up to a dog &amp; put out your hand, most of the time he will let you pet him. If you corner a dog &amp; begin to beat him, then every one who approaches will get bit. The poor dog does not know who to trust. I thank you for your friendly reply sir, my problem is now, I cant tell who is playing &amp; just having fun with me, hey I can take a joke &amp; joke back, or who is deadly serious about ruining my name and my reputation. My problem is this is all now getting to me badly, and I am obviously losing perspective, and that is not good. That leaves me with 3 paths to take, (l) take a hike &amp; never come back, I like number one, yo baby do I want to do that. Would that Make Scotts day or what. (2) continue to fight &amp; argue with every scum bucket that get's his cookies off taking pot shots at me. This is wasted energy, this is un productive, and nobody wants to see 2 pool players fight, that is about as attractive as watching two old people fornicate. (3) Just ignore everyone, consider the source, be a good Christian, just turn the other cheek, and never defend another attack. Just go about your business and do the best job you can, then let the cards fall where they may. It is so hard to be a good Christian, especially when the devil's front line troops are closing in around you &amp; have you by the throat. Here it is, I choose #3. These people are going to have a field day on me now. Once they know they can write in Wonder Dog is a flamin faggot, they will descend on me like a pack of hungry wolves. Nobody is going to jump to my defense, and they should not have to. Most people just dont want to get dragged into somebody else's fight. This is going to be really ugly, it's going to be bad. So when this guy posts Wonder Dog was seen out stealing chickens, you will see no response from me, then everyone else will figure this has to be true, then soon poor old Wonder will be a chicken thief. Give a dog a bad name, he is a bad dog, you may as well then go on and hang him, give him a good name, he is a good dog &amp; every one will love him. Wonder would never go kill a chicken, but he might a cow, that boy loves his T bones. I dont post, I just answer people's questions, who seek answers. I will post tomorrow, a story, but cincy has asked me to do that. When somebody ask's me a question, on the board, if they ever do again, I will respond, I will answer. I will never again follow the responses, &amp; listen to what people have to say, good or bad. From now on, call me a chicken S*** or a chicken thief, make my day, the bad news is I will never read it, it will never affect me. That is the way I play it from here on in. any fool can criticize, condemn and complain, and most fools do. It takes real character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.The answer here is simple, Zoroaster taught it in Persia 3 thousand years ago, So did Confucius in China 25 centuries ago, Lao-Tse taught it in the valley of the Han, Buddha taught it on the holy ganges six hundred years before Christ. On the stony hills of Judea 20 centuries ago, Jesus summed all of these teachings into one thought they all agreed on, DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU. Budda said hatred is never ended by hatred, but by love, and a misunderstanding is never ended by an argument but by tact, diplomacy, conciliation, and a sympathetic desire to see the other person's viewpoint. All of this fighting has ended now, because I have ended it, I now refuse to fight or argue with any one or defend who I am or what I do, you either believe, or you dont believe. There is an old German motto, Ya, yust laugh. Let me close with this one final piece of advice, Lincoln was about to crack during the civil war, the attacks on him became very personal, very cruel, many threatened his life daily, until one day, one carried out the threat. Just before his life ended, he wrote a letter to the newspaper.
He finally realized the folly of trying to answer all of the vitriolic condemnations being hurled at him. General MacArther had a copy of Lincolns letter hanging above his headquarters desk during WWII, Winston Churchill had a framed copy of it on the walls of his study at Chartwell. Budda, Jesus &amp; Lincoln tell me what path now to take, and how to walk that path. Here is Lincolns letter: Quote
If I were to try to read, much less to answer, all the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for any other business. I do the very best I know how The very best I can: and I mean to keep on doing so until the end. If the end brings me out all right, then what is said against me wont matter. If the end brings me out wrong, then ten angels swearing I was right would make no difference. end of quote by Abe Lincoln.
Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger

02-27-2003, 01:56 AM
To: Rod, to the man who can draw his rock. You stated you were from Kansas &amp; you never saw any Osage Oranges. This means two things, (l) you have never been in Kansas in your life, the damn things are everywhere, they use them for property lines, or (2)_you are convinced I have never been in Kansas before &amp; this was all BS. If that is true sir, how in the world would I come up with the name of that little river? City slickers would stop by our farm, grab them &amp; take them home &amp; put them in their basements. The Osage Orange is a small to medium sized tree planted across the USA for hedges, ornamental purposes and shade. It was originally found in Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas, they were imported into Kansas when the sod busters came. The name refers to the Osage indians of that region, and to the greenish-yellow fruit that looks like an orange, but is as big as a grapefruit, but is inedible. A lot of things in Kansas are Indiana or French, they were there well before the English. The Osage Orange is sometimes called bodark, or bois d arc, or bow wood. Jees, I need to shut up now, remember the secret wood I discovered I set all the power records in the game with, that was not Maple, Fast, focus, back to the story, The Indians wanted a wood that was very straight, very strong, very true, &amp; they used this as their weapon of choice. The tree has a short trunk, and is in my opinion, a little ugly. It has crooked branches, its long pointed leaves are a shiny dark green. It has thorny twigs, and a milky bitter sap. As a kid, you learn not to climb them. Birds &amp; other critters love them. You know me mom has a Osage Indiana name, Merinda. Now am I from Kansas or what dude. When the oranges get large, you will have 2 or 3 of them drooping a limb down low. The tree can be filled with them. When they fall, they thud, they are heavy. The pioneers planted Osage orange trees as a living fence around their farms before barbed wire came into use. They did a nice job as a snow or wind break. Triva question, what is the windiest city in the country, Answer later....
The Yellow wood of the Osage Orange is hard, strong and durable. Look at my video tapes, that is the color of the shafts I am using..... The Indians preferred it for their bows, their arrows, and their war clubs. It made a great fence, fence posts and was used for wagon wheels. My grandmother would boil chips of the wood in water to produce a yellow dye. The windiest city is not Chicago, it is Dodge City, Kansas, and you probably know the Osage Orange to be a Hedgeapple. Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger

Scott Lee
02-27-2003, 03:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> Dear Scott, you gotta take your little pot shot &amp; try &amp; ridicule me every chance you get dont you, yes, you are a real pro doing that. Fast Larry <hr /></blockquote>

Larry...Once again, you don't READ the posts clearly! Nobody, including me is taking potshots at you. I have never ridiculed you. Sometimes you do that to yourself, the way you come across. Your skill is not in question...only your attitude about it! You are a self-acknowledged "know-it-all", and that is okay. I just asked a question..."Who do you think is calling you names?"
I did make a comment about your flagrant putdown of Ewa Mataya Lawrence, and her teaching/writing skills. Talk about degrading another instructor! What do you call that?
Is that what you call 'ethical'? The way you mercilessly slam the BCA certified instructor program is b.s too! You certainly have a right to your own opinion, but you don't have to knock somebody else, because they don't necessarily agree with you. You should try to adopt the same attitude that you came across with in your answer to Ludba on another thread on students and instructors. There, you said it perfectly...there are lots of different ways to get the same job done! You, as a higher-level expert, ought to be able to debate points without slamming your opposition.
Learn how to make your point without putting down someone else for theirs.

Scott Lee

Scott Lee
02-27-2003, 03:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote houstondan:</font><hr>

it's a dieing breed, traveling pool showman. the only new one i can think of is our own scott lee and i understand he hardly ever steals chickens anymore. but, how much you bet he's still got the hose?

dan <hr /></blockquote>

Nah...I traded it in on a credit card! LOL...but I DO still like chicken! ROFL

Scott

Barbara
02-27-2003, 03:47 AM
Quote houstondan:

[ QUOTE ]
it's a dieing breed, traveling pool showman. the only new one i can think of is our own scott lee and i understand he hardly ever steals chickens anymore. but, how much you bet he's still got the hose?
<hr /></blockquote>

Well, the last time Scott was in the Philly area he didn't have a hose, he had two coeds! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Okay, so they were driving him to the airport. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Barbara~~~and Scott lost to a girl that weekend, too!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Scott Lee
02-27-2003, 03:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> That leaves me with 3 paths to take, (l) take a hike &amp; never come back, I like number one, yo baby do I want to do that. Would that Make Scotts day or what. (2) continue to fight &amp; argue with every scum bucket that get's his cookies off taking pot shots at me. This is wasted energy, this is un productive, and nobody wants to see 2 pool players fight, that is about as attractive as watching two old people fornicate. (3) Just ignore everyone, consider the source, be a good Christian, just turn the other cheek, and never defend another attack. Just go about your business and do the best job you can, then let the cards fall where they may.

Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger <hr /></blockquote>

Larry...Nobody wants you to leave, unless you choose to leave. That goes for me too! I think you have a lot you COULD contribute here, if you felt like it! You seem to mostly NOT want to share, and that is your right! The big problem, as I see it, is your constant belittling of anyone who doesn't agree with you. Debate is about making your point without putting down your opponent. Anyone can call names, and run and hide. I'll be happy to stand here toe-to-toe with you and debate anything you like (and do it politely, with no malice)...as long as you don't lower yourself to the same way you've been coming across in nearly every post you've made so far. Nobody minds you saying you are the 'best' or 'know all there is to know'. We just would rather you said so, without demeaning anyone else. Can't, or won't, you do that?

Scott Lee

Barbara
02-27-2003, 04:05 AM
Scott,

One of the many problems with Fast Larry's posts is the fact that he's responding to posts that he's reading in Flat Mode. So when I read these posts in threaded mode, I have to realize he's responding to something I haven't read yet or to someone's post way up or down the thread.

But he still has to learn how to use paragraphs effectively.

Hey!! See you at the Expo at Samsara?

Barbara~~~wondering what Richard Black is bringing to the show... ?

Scott Lee
02-27-2003, 04:22 AM
Barbara...Either you are up WAY too late (like me), or WAY too early! LOL See you in 3 weeks! I will be in the Samsara booth.

Scott

bluewolf
02-27-2003, 05:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> Dear Addict, did that make you feel good to go into that tirade and slander &amp; degrade &amp; demean me &amp; my good name. Now you call me a thief, on the internet. Allow me to now warn you, doing this to any one, is not very smart, nor is it very safe. That sir is my advice. Why would I go steal a chicken, I own a farm and have hundreds of the damn things running around. I am not a thief, and any one who calls me one, is mistaken. I dont hustle, con or lie to people about what I do, I just teach &amp; entertain, why do you have a problem with this? Fast Larry Guninger <hr /></blockquote>

Larry,

It seems that you see a person's words and not knowing the person, sometimes you think that the person is insulting you when that is not the intent. Now, we know each other and most of the time when the writer is teasing. There are quite a few here with wonderful humor and Houston Dan is one of those.

Here is what I got from his post. He was being humerous, saying the part about stealing chickens, which he said Scott did not steal chickens. The point I got in the middle of all of that humor and reflection into the past was that pool entertainers bragged about how great they were and I got the impression that he thought it was part of their act.

I did read in his post that he did not see you as having any malice.

See I know Dan and he is funny.

Laura

bluewolf
02-27-2003, 05:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> The Yellow wood of the Osage Orange is hard, strong and durable. Look at my video tapes, that is the color of the shafts I am using..... The Indians preferred it for their bows, their arrows, and their war clubs. It made a great fence, fence posts and was used for wagon wheels. My grandmother would boil chips of the wood in water to produce a yellow dye. The windiest city is not Chicago, it is Dodge City, Kansas, and you probably know the Osage Orange to be a Hedgeapple. Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger <hr /></blockquote>

Larry,

You have got me interested in this wood. Where would I get some of this wood? It sounds very nice and very pretty.

Laura

bluewolf
02-27-2003, 05:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> I thank you for your friendly reply sir, my problem is now, I cant tell who is playing &amp; just having fun with me, hey I can take a joke &amp; joke back, or who is deadly serious about ruining my name and my reputation. My problem is this is all now getting to me badly, and I am obviously losing perspective, and that is not good. That leaves me with 3 paths to take, (l) take a hike &amp; never come back, I like number one, yo baby do I want to do that. Would that Make Scotts day or what. (2) continue to fight &amp; argue with every scum bucket that get's his cookies off taking pot shots at me. This is wasted energy, this is un productive, and nobody wants to see 2 pool players fight, that is about as attractive as watching two old people fornicate. (3) Just ignore everyone, consider the source, be a good Christian, just turn the other cheek, and never defend another attack. Just go about your business and do the best job you can, then let the cards fall where they may. It is so hard to be a good Christian, especially when the devil's front line troops are closing in around you &amp; have you by the throat. Here it is, I choose #3. These people are going to have a field day on me now. Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Larry,

I think that I should tell you what it was like for me when I first got on ccb last july or august. I did not know the people here and did not know when they were serious or teasing. This led to a lot of misunderstandings on my part and some hurt feelings to me and to others. I felt attacked where no attacks were intented. So, like you, I attacked back. Naturally, the people insulted me. I insulted them, they insulted me. I call that human nature. When a person feels insulted or put down, they attack back.

There are lots of people here who feel that you have insulted them and implied that they do not know anything. This probably was not your intent. But in the end, people react based on their perceptions.

Please do not take this the wrong way. Go back and read your posts. Read where you said things about the bca and about the knowlege on this list in general. Ask yourself 'if I were a BCA instructor or a fairly knowlegeable pool player on ccb, how would I feel if someone posted that?', That is called, putting yourself in the other person's shoes.

It is very hard to tell where someone is coming from by reading their words here. I just met dr d. I knew from her posts that she is a nic person who works hard at pool. But meeting her in person brings her to life, and the person I met face to face is much more marvelous and full of personality than the print I saw posted by her here.

I hope that you do not leave. You are part of an era that has practically disappeared. You are a history book that not only has facts, but style, flavor, feelings and the essence of pool gone by. I look forward to meeting you. To be around you, would be like stepping into a pool hall 30-40 years ago, seeing the greats playing and hearing their voices,their laughter and hearing the chink of the glasses and the pool balls clicking and the smell of the cigars and all of the other smells and seeing the clothes of the era and all of it. That is part of what you are to me. And then there is your vast knowlege and I know that I can learn a lot from you. And I feel that if I do not learn it while you are still here, it will be gone forever. And that makes me sad. There are many people here who can teach me many things and there are many great instructors here....But there are things that only you can teach because two reasons, you are the embodiment of the yesteryears of pool and because there is only one Fast Larry.

Laura

Fred Agnir
02-27-2003, 07:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> To Fred: Do you realize this question drew 976 responses &amp; 54 posts &amp; I never answered the damn question. Can you imagine what it would have drawn, had I actually spilled the beans? Regards, Fast Larry Guninger
<hr /></blockquote>
I will be in Valley Forge this year. I hope you will be there as well. If you can teach me your draw method, what's the going rate?

Fred

Fran Crimi
02-27-2003, 08:48 AM
Well, I happen to be in the 5 percent of CCBers who think you may be implying that Larry and Scott stole those chickens.

Let me take a minute to explain to everyone the dangers of discussing chicken thievery. Standing on a podium swinging a dead chicken over one's head does NOT necessarily constitute the act of chicken thievery. Where's your evidence? Any signs of forced entry, like chicken feathers in the hair, or poop on the shoes?

What have we become? I fear, an out-of-control mob at best.

Fran ~~ sigh

02-27-2003, 09:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Well, I happen to be in the 5 percent of CCBers who think you may be implying that Larry and Scott stole those chickens.

Let me take a minute to explain to everyone the dangers of discussing chicken thievery. Standing on a podium swinging a dead chicken over one's head does NOT necessarily constitute the act of chicken thievery. Where's your evidence? Any signs of forced entry, like chicken feathers in the hair, or poop on the shoes?

What have we become? I fear, an out-of-control mob at best.

Fran ~~ sigh

<hr /></blockquote>

i thought i read in b.d. that scott had eliminated the "swinging a dead chicken over his head" part of his act. personally, i thought that was good. live chickens are much more entertaining.

dan..then there's people who think poultry makes good roommates.

Troy
02-27-2003, 10:04 AM
You jusy may be correct Dan. Now that I rethink my post with your insight, maybe Mr. Larry is actually an 1890's Carnival Barker. Without the Ford of course, but the hose and chicken, mmmmm, maybe so.

Troy...~~~ Playing with Mr. Larry the Barker now..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote houstondan:</font><hr>troy, been watching this crazy-larry stuff for a while and i think that what we've got here is a "failure to communicate." the problem, as i see it, is that most of us are functioning at or near 2003 and larry is a product of maybe 1955 or so.

now larry, quit cussin till i'm done.

there was a time there were a lot of guys wandering around the country making a living puting on trick shot shows, selling the occasional cue, hustling a little (especially on propositions) and stealing the odd chicken.

3 ft. of black rubber hose and the ford will make it to galesburg.

these guys weren't really the hustler roadies we think of who come in under the radar wearin bib-overalls with stuff on their shoes. nope. these guys were entertainers. maybe the perfessor in the music man might be a better picture. they had to draw a crowd and keep it there to sell anything or get any of the propositions working. bigger.louder.

hell of a way to make a living. hard. hard.

consequently, they, like ol fats, would come with all kinds of outrageous shtick about being the biggest, baddest, bestest and fastest. i don't get that he comes with any real malice and i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

it's a dieing breed, traveling pool showman. the only new one i can think of is our own scott lee and i understand he hardly ever steals chickens anymore. but, how much you bet he's still got the hose?
dan <hr /></blockquote>

bluewolf
02-27-2003, 10:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote houstondan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Well, I happen to be in the 5 percent of CCBers who think you may be implying that Larry and Scott stole those chickens.

Let me take a minute to explain to everyone the dangers of discussing chicken thievery. Standing on a podium swinging a dead chicken over one's head does NOT necessarily constitute the act of chicken thievery. Where's your evidence? Any signs of forced entry, like chicken feathers in the hair, or poop on the shoes?

What have we become? I fear, an out-of-control mob at best.

Fran ~~ sigh

<hr /></blockquote>

i thought i read in b.d. that scott had eliminated the "swinging a dead chicken over his head" part of his act. personally, i thought that was good. live chickens are much more entertaining.

dan..then there's people who think poultry makes good roommates. <hr /></blockquote>

Thinking of jokes. WW will say something. If I get perturbed he says 'i was only teasing' to which I r eply, 'If you are the only one laughing, then it isnt a joke and it is not funny'.

I think that when I first came here, I always put LOL or &lt;VBG&gt; because I knew that lots of people do not know when I am joking. I think that it takes awhile to know that about a person. With Larry being new here and not knowing folks and when they are teasing, it does put him at a disadvantage.

As far as the mob mentality, well this group does seem to like a little 'lynching' from time to time to spice things up. Does it make it right, no. I find too that at times I have said or done things in the 'protection' of this group that I am not proud of.

IMO, it it good to be reminded of moral aspects of my behavior.

Sid_Vicious
02-27-2003, 10:46 AM
"I find too that at times I have said or done things in the 'protection' of this group that I am not proud of."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
Seldom do I feel this way BW. If there's repeated ugliness from anyone, newbie or no...I go into protection mode with little or no regrets. I sometimes wonder why we electively kiss some people's butts not wanting them to leave, and yet others who merely ARE green players get the wham-bam and exit without very much compassion at all. JM2C sid

bluewolf
02-27-2003, 11:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> "I find too that at times I have said or done things in the 'protection' of this group that I am not proud of."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
Seldom do I feel this way BW. If there's repeated ugliness from anyone, newbie or no...I go into protection mode with little or no regrets. I sometimes wonder why we electively kiss some people's butts not wanting them to leave, and yet others who merely ARE green players get the wham-bam and exit without very much compassion at all. JM2C sid
<hr /></blockquote>

I have noticed there is a group mentality (generally) where people often poke fun and other undesirable things that they would not do solo. I was referring to ocasionally joining in the 'fun' at someone else's expense, which is not nice.

I do not look at who gets a break and who gets treated badly and railroaded out by this group. I am not responsible for the whole group but I am responsible for my behavior within the group as well as solo. Regardless of what the rest of the group is doing, regardless of how the 'target' is acting,or how others act towards me, when I act in a way that is unkind or insensitive, I do not care for this because it is not the kind of person I wish to be.

Laura

Rod
02-27-2003, 01:37 PM
Larry,
I never doubted you were from Kansas. It's unlikely anyone would come up with names like Marais Des Cygnes and Osawatomie for any type of recognition. It was named after the Osage and Pottawatomie Indians or maybe you said that. Stomping grounds for the abolitionist John Brown and the battle of Osawatomie during the years of Bleeding Kansas. I lived on John Brown Hwy near the thriving metropolis of Rantoul . Naw I don't know nuttin bout Kansas. Maybe it was hedgeapple, we had a couple of large trees with long thorns, to many years ago.
It is interesting you have shafts made from them. Whats the grain like, is it tight? The windy city, well it blows everywhere, my mom and dad owned a motel in Dodge. Todays history, should have been in the NPR forum. Well It was sort of pool related.

Rod

02-27-2003, 01:47 PM
Oh Grasshopper, you must be very careful in what you read, or you read what you want to, I never said I play pool with a shaft made out of Osage Orange. Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger

02-27-2003, 02:08 PM
You see Scott you are talking little things out of text &amp; content and not staying with the big picture &amp; the over all message, then you come in &amp; do your little hit &amp; run &amp; make me defend every thing I am doing, here is an example of this. There are boo coo people running around with the name of Ewa, They are all over northern europe &amp; in Scandavia, how do you know exactly who I was talking about. If I sad Ted runs a lousy news station, does that mean I said Turner./ The point I was trying to make is if you take any high quality person &amp; teacher Like Scott Lee, Fran Crimi, or a dozen others &amp; force them to write in one paragraph how to teach people how to play pool, all of them will end up doing the same thing, putting out worthless parables that dont accomplish anything of value. I choose not to be put in that trap. If you would have any of those same people now be giving adequate space &amp; proper still pictures &amp; ARTISTS RENDERING diagrams to prove their points, then they would do beautiful work. You didn't really read what I wrote, because it was not a attack on any teacher or player, It was on a magazine, and that magazine was not billiards Digest. I am saying the reason the instruction is so bad, they wont give the instructors enough space to do their job. Somehow you twist that around to throw mud on me, I was helping you here, saying something you would have never in a thousand years had the balls to do. With me, you either believe, or you dont believe, Scott, I really dont care which choice you take, because you have already taken it. Ewa Mataya is one beautiful lady, the queen of pool, she alone made the current ladies tour what it is today. I love her, played a nice game with her at the Veags Brunswick booth, I have asked for her autograh several times &amp; they hang on my wall of champions, sorry Scott, your pic has not made the wall yet, but who knows, maybe some day you might actually do something of merit other than just bitch &amp; moan &amp; act jealous when a real competitior comes along &amp; get on. Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger

wolfdancer
02-27-2003, 02:17 PM
Fran, it's pretty obvious, from your post, that you do not watch NYPD on tv. You've got the "perp" with the stolen poultry in his possession, and brandishing it as a weapon..that's just cause, for an arrest, and a few hours of "good cop/ bad cop" interrogation, will not only get a confession to the chicken heist, but solve any women's underwear thefts in the neighborhood..see they always start out with animals, and then grad...wait, maybe that was the "Profilers"
Hope they don't run Fast Larry off the board...he's entertaining.......and jes maybe..it's all true.....

02-27-2003, 02:23 PM
Dear Mr. Scott, Yes I agree to this, I have posted this days ago, even with an apology to you, and you still continue to attack me, even this one manages to put in a full paragraph of over a dozen of my evil sins, How about this one, if you cant say something nice about me, how about saying nothing about me, I am doing that to you now, how about you do that back to me. You want a deal, there it is.
fast Larry

02-27-2003, 02:31 PM
Dear Mr. Sid Vicious, on the last 3 things you did a post on, I came on &amp; ragged your ass, did a little short one liner to make you look like a jerk. You were doing that to me, &amp; I just wanted you to see 2 can play that game, and that is a stupid game for little kids. From now on I will be polite, If you post something I dont care for, I will hold my tongue, you have a right to your opinions, right or wrong. Best wishes, Fast Larry

eg8r
02-27-2003, 02:42 PM
Oh I agree. When Larry posts, he does not say things he says. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
02-27-2003, 02:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr>

....There are boo coo people running around with the name of Ewa, They are all over northern europe &amp; in Scandavia, how do you know exactly who I was talking about....<hr /></blockquote>

Boy you nailed him there Larry. Now tell us which famous poolplaying Ewa you were referring to.

Wally~~knows the pool world is just lousy with Ewa's (and Jeanette's too)

eg8r
02-27-2003, 02:46 PM
Very sneaky. Sneaky, sneaky man.

eg8r &lt;~~Poor impersonator. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I loved Mr. Deeds

Wally_in_Cincy
02-27-2003, 02:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>
....I do not look at who gets a break and who gets treated badly and railroaded out by this group....<hr /></blockquote>

Nobody gets railroaded out of this group unless they act like a total a-hole.

Troy
02-27-2003, 03:18 PM
YeS sir Mr. Larry, you sure did put us in our place with that. There must be hundreds, or maybe even thousands of ladies named Ewa. All pool players from northern Europe who emigrated to the USA to play pool. Yes sir, we all sure did have it wrong and you sure did have it [/b]perfectly[/b] correct.

Troy...~~~ Thinks Mr. Larry is in denial..... (Not a river in Egypt)... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> There are boo coo people running around with the name of Ewa, They are all over northern europe &amp; in Scandavia, how do you know exactly who I was talking about. <hr /></blockquote>

bluewolf
02-27-2003, 03:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>
....I do not look at who gets a break and who gets treated badly and railroaded out by this group....<hr /></blockquote>

Nobody gets railroaded out of this group unless they act like a total a-hole. <hr /></blockquote>

Woops i did say that. Mustve been a freudian slip and requoted that sid said. I have only seen one person kicked out in the 8 months I have been on ccb.

Laura

Fran Crimi
02-27-2003, 04:19 PM
Dam-nit...you're right. Been watching the wrong shows. I had just watched an episode of Leave it to Beaver--the one with the ice-cream heist. Gave me a false sense of security that I had a handle on this whole chicken chicanery issue.

Welp, back to the drawing board.

Fran

02-27-2003, 04:55 PM
Dear Scott, go into 20 different pool halls &amp; ask the first 20 players you come up how to spell Mataya's name, every one will tell you EVA. None of these people know who Ewa is. Do you know how many eva's are running around. Now some other guy is trying to tell me there is only one Jeanette playing pool. Scott, you are like the energizer bunny, you just wont stop, every post is a dig or a slam, every one. I have read your last 50 posts, I cant wait until you finally say something intelligent or actually teach something. Look Pal, I am workin here, I dont come out in the ditch where you work on your day job &amp; kick the shovel out of your hands, stay outta my ditch too.
Now your latest cheap shot is I wont share anything. Are you blind, I have posted 80 times, There is an enormous amount I have shared with the players so far. I tell it like it is, give them the straight answer, because I am in no body's pocket like you are, and I am not controlled by any organization like you are, nor do I fear what any sponsor may think, like you are. You stay perfectly politically correct &amp; say nothing, then you are safe. You could not say S*** if you had a mouth full of it, but I can. A lot of people like you dont like me telling the truth on a lot of things, you are now all in this tight herd, with your herd mentality, and there is no way you want this stray cuttin in, no way. News flash, telegram, I dont want to cut in, it stinks in there, I like being a lone wolf, then I go where I want, do what I want, say what I want. All you probably have to teach is your BCA manual of how to teach, and your Byrne book. Once you have taught or posted that, your tank is on empty boy, you dont got no more, dat's it. I have a ton more than you have, a ton, and I am not going to share it with you, and that has driven you &amp; a couple of other instructors totally F******* nuts. Why should I educate you for free and make you now as good as me. Right now, I kinda like it the way it is, me knowing more than you, and you running around telling everyone I am a moron who dont no nuttin. There are a couple of people on this board now in the process of writing a book, and they are going to steal every neat thing I drop, &amp; bingo it now becomes their concept. Do you really think one of them would have the professional intgrity to say this is a concept I learned from Fast Larry, are you kidding or what. Do you have any concept of how much I gave to Byrne for free &amp; just got a pat on the head for it. At least Byrne acknowldged me, and the stuff Byrne passed back to me was priceless, so I guess that one was a push. Why should I help these people make money on a book &amp; then get a teaching column in a magazine just because they are the newest &amp; coolist guru to come down the pike. I was going to give the players about 80% of what I had, I was only going to hold back the 20% none of you guys have. You know scott, there are people who just dont want other people to have a good time, they just like to rain on the other guys parade. I grew up on a farm, learned to hunt when I was 2 yrs old, in fact my gift for being born, was a .22 rifle. I later became a big game hunter, all I knew is what I had been taught. I begin to spend a lot of time in the far east in the search for enlightnment, and I found Zen instead. I now cannot hunt or kill anything, unless it corners me, my religious beliefs now prevent that, but I dont wear a orange robe &amp; I dont shave my head bald, if something corners me, threatens me, comes at me with intent to do great harm to me, then I will kill it. When I was a hunter I was running around up North on a traveling safari, I bagged a Pronghorn in the Black Hills, took several hours to crawl up on the herd, almost got on top of them, when I raised up &amp; let the arrow go, the look on their faces was holy cow, where did he come from. I did the same thing to a flock of 60 turkeys in Valentine, walked right up behind them, got in the flock and began to walk behind them through the deep snow, &amp; they did not know it until it was too late. I rattled in a nice blacktail deer so close I could have dropped out of the tree on top of him. He was a trophy Mulie. Then I pushed out around Jackson Hole &amp; bagged a hugh elk, from there I went up to Canada to the Buffalo narrows, messed with some bears, then back to the USA &amp; down &amp; through Montana &amp; came down through Great Falls &amp; Butte, then headed back home east through Bozeman &amp; Billings. You know you gotta have a brother or a relative out there who looks just like you, I layed over &amp; went to the movie theatre, they were playing a John Wayne movie, and there was your double on the front row cheering for the friggin indians. When the movie was over, I did not know where the real action was, so I follow this guy, he goes right into the Booom Booom club, sits down at the front row, and here come da girls, and dis guy begins to hoot &amp; holler, put it back on, put it back on. The glass is half full, the glass is half empty. Am I gonna share my inside secrets with you so you can steal them as your own, hell no, I may be from Kansas, but everyone from there lives to be 95 because they are smart, not dumb. Will I sell it to you, no, Can you buy it, no, you cant come up with enough money to get me to do that, no, so your only option is now to degrad &amp; to demean &amp; run down every thing I teach praying nobody out there just might think it through &amp; realize I may be right &amp; you may be wrong. Everyone In Kansas, Oklahoma &amp; Texas will, but I dont no about dem utter people, day can be a little head strong. And now I look at the last posting behind this and the guy calls me an ass hole. Ok, that did it, remember who that ass hole was, because of him, I am not going to share another GD thing with anybody, that Ass hole just screwed a thousand players who could have learned some really significant stuff here. You'all send that ass hole a post card or some tin. I am getting nothing but grief here, and I am sick of the mickey mouse BS, you take your little ring game &amp; your board &amp; your BCA teaching certificate &amp; you plant it where the sun dont shine. You want my inside secret stuff, fine, I'll write a book, release it next year, you guys will have to pay for it, then you can tear it to pieces. I wont hear or read a word of what you say, I'll be on my ranch in Costa Rica, the only mail I will open will be the check from the book sales. You wanted to shut up my mouth, well you finally got your wish. From now on, any body who wants to know how to shoot pool, or draw the ball, dont write me, I dont no nuttin, write Scott Lee, he will be thrilled to tell you like it is &amp; teach you for free. What a guy, what can I say. Fast Larry Guninger

Troy
02-27-2003, 05:28 PM
Yes sir Mr. Larry. Ask 20 Friday/Saturday night ball-bangers the question and you may be correct. However, ask 20 players and all 20 will know who Ewa or Jeanette are.

Yes sir, Mr. perfect Larry, you sure know how to make a point. You just don't know how to get to the point without going to excess.

Troy...~~~ Becoming bored with Mr. Larry's ranting and Carnival Barker antics..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr>.....go into 20 different pool halls &amp; ask the first 20 players you come up how to spell Mataya's name, every one will tell you EVA. None of these people know who Ewa is.....trying to tell me there is only one Jeanette playing pool. <hr /></blockquote>

02-27-2003, 08:43 PM
As our old president tricky dicky used to say, let me make this perfectly clear: Actung, Fast Larry has nothing but respect &amp; admiration for Ewa Mataya &amp; Jeanette Lee, they are great champions. You keep messin with this, give where you are going in a couple of posts you are goin to say I said they are both ho's, you guys keep twisting this stuff around out of context. I have nothing but the highest level of respect for both of them, and for every other lady pro. I am sick of defending every thing I say &amp; being set up, you win, you wont see any more teaching comments from me. Fast Larry Guninger

NH_Steve
02-27-2003, 08:52 PM
Troy, you know, you don't have to read all the way through Larry's posts -- unless you want to. Particularly with Larry's no paragraph style, you're obviously working hard to go through them, so if you're bored, why bother? I might not always agree with Larry, but "bored" is certainly NOT a description I would use for the typical reaction to Larry's contributions /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif here. 'Course you're entitled to your opinion /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Personally, I like the color he adds. He certainly has been prolific -- says he's thinking about a book, well he's written half a book here /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Would need an editor though /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

One thing about the CCB I have noticed, it can be a bit of a 'club', and when a personality like Larry's comes along that sorta flips the bird at the 'club' (although he keeps coming back -- hmmmm), well the 'regulars' get knd of protective of their 'club' , and can be pretty off-putting in their own way...

I say, there's plenty of room for diversity &amp; the dynamics can bring out pretty interesting debates. I say, welcome to the club, Larry /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Troy
02-27-2003, 09:10 PM
Aw shucks Mr. Larry, lighten up. I wasn't messin' with your words and didn't misquote anything you said.

Really Larry, from one 'ol fart to another, lighten up.

Troy...~~~ Just funnin'..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> As our old president tricky dicky used to say, let me make this perfectly clear: Actung, Fast Larry has nothing but respect &amp; admiration for Ewa Mataya &amp; Jeanette Lee, they are great champions. You keep messin with this, give where you are going in a couple of posts you are goin to say I said they are both ho's, you guys keep twisting this stuff around out of context. I have nothing but the highest level of respect for both of them, and for every other lady pro. I am sick of defending every thing I say &amp; being set up, you win, you wont see any more teaching comments from me. Fast Larry Guninger <hr /></blockquote>

Troy
02-27-2003, 09:16 PM
Yup, you're right Steve. But I must admit, it's been fun poking fun.

Back to 1-Pocket, the ultimate Pocket Billiard game.....

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr> Troy, you know, you don't have to read all the way through Larry's posts -- unless you want to. Particularly with Larry's no paragraph style, you're obviously working hard to go through them, so if you're bored, why bother? I might not always agree with Larry, but "bored" is certainly NOT a description I would use for the typical reaction to Larry's contributions /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif here. 'Course you're entitled to your opinion /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Personally, I like the color he adds. He certainly has been prolific -- says he's thinking about a book, well he's written half a book here /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Would need an editor though /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

One thing about the CCB I have noticed, it can be a bit of a 'club', and when a personality like Larry's comes along that sorta flips the bird at the 'club' (although he keeps coming back -- hmmmm), well the 'regulars' get knd of protective of their 'club' , and can be pretty off-putting in their own way...

I say, there's plenty of room for diversity &amp; the dynamics can bring out pretty interesting debates. I say, welcome to the club, Larry /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

#### leonard
02-28-2003, 07:15 AM
Fred what you meant to say was Please eliminate your superfluous phraseology as to be comprehensive to my etomology apprehension.####

Fred Agnir
02-28-2003, 07:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr> One thing about the CCB I have noticed, it can be a bit of a 'club', and when a personality like Larry's comes along that sorta flips the bird at the 'club' (although he keeps coming back -- hmmmm), well the 'regulars' get knd of protective of their 'club' , and can be pretty off-putting in their own way...<hr /></blockquote>
That may seem like the truth, but if you look closely, there are several us who have recently disagreed heatedly that seem to agree on this one. At the same time, some of us who've agree in the past apparently disagree on this. So, it's not a "club mentality" this time, IMO.

Fred

Deeman
02-28-2003, 08:14 AM
Gee, always promises of some secret knowledge that no one else has, teasing people with, perhaps, letting go of some of that knowledge, for the right price. I think most of us have seen this before in different guises. David Koresh, Rudolph Wanderone III, Everyone in WWF. I like fantasy and controversy as well as the next guy, but snake oil is snake oil. The very learned and talented people who normally post here, Scott Lee, Mark Wilson, Fran and even some of our non-Professionals (Fred, Rod, etc.) gratiously and openly share their knowledge and never, ever talk down to us. Gee, is that the reason they are considered professionals and have stood the test of time (and sometimes patience) with all the issues they help everyone with?

I like the oddballs as much as the next clown, but mindless stomps and non-existent carrots held out to people who are simply looking to move their part of this great game forward is not in the best interest or the spirit I have seen on this board for the last five or more years.

I know Fran knows of this guy and apparently he has his name in a few books and he may have even paid a lot of dues. Enough is enough. If he could add any meaningful comment aside from multipage rantings about 17 ways to draw a ball that only a few people can understand, he should or just write that book and see who will buy it. I would love for someone to share something about a draw shot that would add to my knowledge. Sadly, I think it is all garbage as if you have a theory or method, have the guts to throw it up on our wall and see if it sticks. Every other person here does that and even the best learn and teach.

It may be a damned shame that perhaps being able to hit 10, 11 or 12 rails and drawing the ball two and half table lengths has too high a personal price. I don't know. Strangly enough, I never thought of the value of hitting more than three or four cushions!

If the price is unabashed pride and boastfulness, most of us can live with that. If it a bitterness of not sharing and taking the game forward, I just don't want to ante up for that. The real experts here are the ones who help in every possible way they can with almost no hope of reward and only our respect and friendship for their many efforts.

There is a long list of guys on this board that I will buy a drink for when ever we bump into each other. There are many that I would buy a book from, sight unseen. To them, I appreciate your participation in these endless strings of questions. To Larry, you might be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but some things are just not worth the price. Either be brave enough to give us the "mysterious 20% that only you know" or admit that you are just a very talented pool player that likes to hear his own voice a lot. At least Fats was likable and the snake oil guys had a real product....

Dee Sands
~Will have money for Fast Larry to play for in Valley Forge~

02-28-2003, 08:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote #### leonard:</font><hr> Fred what you meant to say was Please eliminate your superfluous phraseology as to be comprehensive to my etomology apprehension.#### <hr /></blockquote>


yea, what he said!


dan..wha'd he say????

Kato
02-28-2003, 08:59 AM
A little help here. I read all those words, pronounced them correctly and still didn't understand so I'm going to look it up in the dictionary.

I think he said:

Could you please stop your excessive wording so I can fully understand what you're saying (etomology is not in Websters new dictionary so I'm still confused about that one) and is within my mental grasp.

Kato

Wally_in_Cincy
02-28-2003, 09:11 AM
Please stop this thread.

If you want to respond start a new one.

Not tryin' to be pushy, just a simple request. It's getting kinda long and nAz is beginning to worry it will overtake his all-time classic "who is the hottest wpba player?"

02-28-2003, 09:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr> A little help here. I read all those words, pronounced them correctly and still didn't understand so I'm going to look it up in the dictionary.

I think he said:

Could you please stop your excessive wording so I can fully understand what you're saying (etomology is not in Websters new dictionary so I'm still confused about that one) and is within my mental grasp.

Kato <hr /></blockquote>

perhaps he meant etymology which everyone knows is the study of very small and completely useless insects by similarly small and useless, but overpaid, government scientists. that would make perfectly good sense in this context. as would, in fact, phrenology.

dan

02-28-2003, 09:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> Please stop this thread.

If you want to respond start a new one.

Not tryin' to be pushy, just a simple request. It's getting kinda long and nAz is beginning to worry it will overtake his all-time classic "who is the hottest wpba player?" <hr /></blockquote>

i agree that we need to end this thread. does anyone else agree that we need to end this thread?

dan...done now. (maybe)

heater451
02-28-2003, 10:57 AM
And don't forget to, "eschew obsfurication". . . .

(Just wanted my part in making an obnoxiously long thread even longer.)


===================

Rich R.
02-28-2003, 11:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote houstondan:</font><hr> perhaps he meant etymology which everyone knows is the study of very small and completely useless insects by similarly small and useless, but overpaid, government scientists. that would make perfectly good sense in this context. as would, in fact, phrenology.

dan <hr /></blockquote>
Your being very cruel Dan. I happen to know an etymologist, working for the Smithsonian, and he is not that small. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Popcorn
02-28-2003, 11:17 AM
Yes, and no, It has gotten off of pool at times and maybe should be on the other non-pool board. I have to admit, I find myself reading many of the responses and although Larry sounds a little nutty. He is a change of pace and I have changed my original opinion of him. He is no better or worse then the rest of us and adds a little interest to the board. If I can get away, I look forward to meeting him in Valley Forge. I do like to read what he writes but I wish he would write a little more clear as well as learn to post correctly. He does not always post to the one he is addressing. Can be confusing at times, interesting though. I tell stories myself sometimes, but try to make them short and to the point. Larry writes everything he would be saying if he were telling the story in person, that can become wordy at times.

heater451
02-28-2003, 01:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote houstondan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr> A little help here. I read all those words, pronounced them correctly and still didn't understand so I'm going to look it up in the dictionary.

I think he said:

Could you please stop your excessive wording so I can fully understand what you're saying (etomology is not in Websters new dictionary so I'm still confused about that one) and is within my mental grasp.

Kato <hr /></blockquote>

perhaps he meant etymology which everyone knows is the study of very small and completely useless insects by similarly small and useless, but overpaid, government scientists. that would make perfectly good sense in this context. as would, in fact, phrenology.

dan <hr /></blockquote>Just to get it straight:

etymology is the study of words

entomology is the study of insects (by large, medium, and small scientists).

and

etomology, as far as I've researched, is not a word. (Sorry, Kato)


~~still adding to the big, long thread--and tangentally, I might add. . . .



====================

02-28-2003, 03:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote houstondan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr> A little help here. I read all those words, pronounced them correctly and still didn't understand so I'm going to look it up in the dictionary.

I think he said:

Could you please stop your excessive wording so I can fully understand what you're saying (etomology is not in Websters new dictionary so I'm still confused about that one) and is within my mental grasp.

Kato <hr /></blockquote>

perhaps he meant etymology which everyone knows is the study of very small and completely useless insects by similarly small and useless, but overpaid, government scientists. that would make perfectly good sense in this context. as would, in fact, phrenology.

dan <hr /></blockquote>Just to get it straight:

etymology is the study of words

entomology is the study of insects (by large, medium, and small scientists).

and

etomology, as far as I've researched, is not a word. (Sorry, Kato)


~~still adding to the big, long thread--and tangentally, I might add. . . .



==================== <hr /></blockquote>
heat..
boy are you smart.. (we already knew all that stuff..we was funnin. some guys can sure mess up a good joke.)

you did not, however, know that phrenology is the study of the bumps upon ones head to determine ones proclivities.(he added, tangerienly.)

dan...look that'n up in your funk and wagner. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

heater451
02-28-2003, 03:34 PM
I knew that too--but you were using it correctly, so I left it alone! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What confuses me, is why a rectal exam isn't called asstrology--especially when the doc is checking out Uranus. . . .

~~Can we get this book in the Guinness World Record Book?--which makes me wonder why there's not more beer in it. . . .

====================

NH_Steve
02-28-2003, 04:31 PM
Popcorn I agree with you on all counts. I do get a bit sensitive when Larry starts knockin' One Pocket though /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Troy
02-28-2003, 04:54 PM
You and Dan are proving to be quite a pair of very cunning linguists..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> I knew that too--but you were using it correctly, so I left it alone! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What confuses me, is why a rectal exam isn't called asstrology--especially when the doc is checking out Uranus. . . .

~~Can we get this book in the Guinness World Record Book?--which makes me wonder why there's not more beer in it. . . .

====================



<hr /></blockquote>

bluewolf
02-28-2003, 04:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> I knew that too--but you were using it correctly, so I left it alone! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What confuses me, is why a rectal exam isn't called asstrology--especially when the doc is checking out Uranus. . . .

~~Can we get this book in the Guinness World Record Book?--which makes me wonder why there's not more beer in it. . . .

====================



<hr /></blockquote>

Kind of like the joke 'what is a protoscope' ans 'something with an a##hole at either end

Laura

02-28-2003, 05:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> You and Dan are proving to be quite a pair of very cunning linguists..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> I knew that too--but you were using it correctly, so I left it alone! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What confuses me, is why a rectal exam isn't called asstrology--especially when the doc is checking out Uranus. . . .

~~Can we get this book in the Guinness World Record Book?--which makes me wonder why there's not more beer in it. . . .

====================



<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

and man, was she disapointed when she found out what bilingual actually meant.

dan...see, she thought that i had...well, nevermind.

#### leonard
03-01-2003, 08:27 PM
Dan and 451 Sorry about my spelling I haven't used that word since high school and I am to lazy to use spell checker.####

SpiderMan
03-02-2003, 01:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> What confuses me, is why a rectal exam isn't called asstrology--especially when the doc is checking out Uranus. . . .

~~Can we get this book in the Guinness World Record Book?--which makes me wonder why there's not more beer in it. . . .

<hr /></blockquote>

Speaking of beer and procology ...

Having his hands full with a patient upended on the examination table, the proctologist called to his nurse in the next room, "Quick, bring me a light!". When she appeared in the doorway with a frosty can of Coors, he exclaimed, "No, you idiot, I wanted a Butt Light".

SpiderMan

Paul_Mon
03-03-2003, 11:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>
Speaking of beer and procology ...

Having his hands full with a patient upended on the examination table, the proctologist called to his nurse in the next room, "Quick, bring me a light!". When she appeared in the doorway with a frosty can of Coors, he exclaimed, "No, you idiot, I wanted a Butt Light".

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Unfortunately I've been in that chair too many times. One of the doctors I used to see was nicknamed "the rear admiral" because everyone seemed to be going to him. He was quite a kidder. On my first visit I was quite nervous and he instructed me to: remove my glasses, put your knees here, put your elbows here and then flipped me up into position. I was breathing quite hard and he asked me if my mouth was open. I replied yes it was and he says "well shut it because there's a shadow". Another time he says to me, "better see your dentist I think one of your wisdom teeth is impacted". What a sense of humor.

Paul Mon

03-03-2003, 10:26 PM
As Fatty used to say, dis is un beeeee leave able, l97l people have checked in on this and I never answered the friggin question. I told you that you people had a serious draw problem, and I hope this proves my point. Did I hit a nerve or what. To Pop corn, dear sir, I did not knock one pocket, I just reported to you exactly what Willie Mosconi said about the game. This was a quote from him, &amp; not me. Dont shoot the messenger sir. I have said over &amp; over, I cant figure out how to make paragraphs or work the spell check, I can on word on my cpu, but not this thing, so why read my crap &amp; aggravate your self, you do have the option to fast forward past it. Who knows, maybe somebody will drop in &amp; teach this to me.
Dear Deeman Newbie, so I wont give it to you free, holy cow, you are ranting &amp; raving &amp; about to blow a head gasket son. Just for you, just so you can see how wrong you have made me out to be, I will be at the Allen Hopkins Expo in Phil, Pa for 3 days, how about I teach free at no cost, is that not what you asked for, can you handle free. Day one I will do a clinic on how to roll &amp; force follow the ball. Day 2 I will do a open clinic, ask any 20 questions &amp; I will answer them, any question. Day three, I will teach my draw method. At the end of day three, I will give away free to one of you, the 8' table with the simonois cloth I am teaching on. Now tell me this, who else is doing this for you sir. I leave the show to go to bookings in Boston, then back to NYC, I Will be back down l-95 a week later, any one who wants to get with me for more serious work can then make an appointment to see me on my return swing. Best Wishes, www.fastlarrypool.com. (http://www.fastlarrypool.com.) Shoot straight, innovate, no fear &amp; never give up. veni, vidi, vici, where will I be, it is not a very big place, I will be the guy with the l35 lbs German Shepherd running racks with his nose, trust me, I will be easy to locate, just ask any one where is Wonder Dog.

bluewolf
03-04-2003, 06:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> To Pop corn, dear sir, I did not knock one pocket, I just reported to you exactly what Willie Mosconi said about the game. This was a quote from him, &amp; not me. Dont shoot the messenger sir. I have said over &amp; over, I cant figure out how to make paragraphs or work the spell check, I can on word on my cpu, but not this thing, so why read my crap &amp; aggravate your self, you do have the option to fast forward past it. Who knows, maybe somebody will drop in &amp; teach this to me.
www.fastlarrypool.com. (http://www.fastlarrypool.com.)[/url] Shoot straight, innovate, no fear &amp; never give up. veni, vidi, vici, where will I be, it is not a very big place, I will be the guy with the l35 lbs German Shepherd running racks with his nose, trust me, I will be easy to locate, just ask any one where is Wonder Dog. <hr /></blockquote>

Larry,

It is hard to edit with the ccb thingie we have for writing. What we do when we have a long post is to sometimes write it into word first. That way can edit, spell check and all of that. Then when you are done, you can copy it and paste here.

hope this helps

Laura

Fred Agnir
03-04-2003, 07:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> I have said over &amp; over, I cant figure out how to make paragraphs or work the spell check, I can on word on my cpu, but not this thing, so why read my crap &amp; aggravate your self, you do have the option to fast forward past it. Who knows, maybe somebody will drop in &amp; teach this to me.
Dear Deeman Newbie, so I wont give it to you free, holy cow, you are ranting &amp; raving &amp; about to blow a head gasket son. <hr /></blockquote>

It looks as though you did hit the "enter" button in the above quote, between "me" and "Dear Deeman Newbie." Simply hit it twice instead of once, and you'll have yourself a new paragraph.

Good luck,

Fred

03-04-2003, 06:19 PM
Dear Laura. I am giving a all day lesson at a man's home tomorrow on his new Brunswick table. He is actually going to teach me how to edit and do paragraphs, your pain is finally over soon. Who say's you cant teach old dogs new tricks, who da man, who da man, over 2100 people check in on this &amp; I never answered the friggin question, that has me in total amazement, I now know, with out a shade of doubt, I am on the right track here. Every one in america wants to know, how do you really draw the ball? That question is now finally open for honest debate, and that was my only motive. Now I will come clean, spill da beans, or discuss it with any one who will keep an open mind to a different approach to a old problem. Regards, Fast Larry Guninger