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sack316
02-19-2003, 03:14 PM
my break has evolved so much recently it amazes me (thanks to reading alot of tips on here, so thanks guys), but sometimes on the bar boxes I notice that I'll just smash the crap out of the rack, but sometimes the balls just seem to bump together and conglomerate against the back rail.I can fix it by breaking softer or breaking from more of an angle.But I'm just curious if you can actually break too hard, or is it more likely the rack or table or what.

L.S. Dennis
02-19-2003, 04:07 PM
Well Sack, this subject has come up not too long ago regarding break speed. While I don't have a lot of experience on bar boxes it's my opion that on regular 9 ft tables (I'm assuming we're talking nineball here) there is definetly a point at which the big break will bring diminishing returns. Keep in mind that the MOST important thing is to hit the one as square a possible and to KEEP control of the cue ball. If you can do those two things and still break hard so much the better. I know this has all been said before but still worth repeating!

Karatemom
02-19-2003, 04:22 PM
I'm definitely not an expert, but for what's it's worth:

I believe that timing has a lot to do with it, whatever game your playing, and also how the balls are racked plays a big part in it as well.

When my timing is right on, and the rack is tight, I can break the balls up very well, with no clusters or problem areas. When my timing is off, with a good rack, I'll end up with an okay break. Maybe a couple of clusters, no balls in on the break, but a good leave for my opponent.

When someone has sh*t racked me, whether my timing is on or off, that's when they like to lay down at the end rail. A few will trail their way down the table, but most stay pretty close to the bottom third of the table.

Remember, I'm only 95 lbs so strength doesn't really factor in where I'm concerned, LOL.

Heide ~ doesn't believe strength has much to do with the break

9 Ball Girl
02-19-2003, 04:32 PM
Hey! I agree with everything Heide said and I'd like to add that when you're playing 8 ball on a barbox and you break 'em hard, because it's not a big table the balls are going to hit the rail and probably roll back to each other. That plus the fact that the balls might be caked with dirt and you might be playing on a rug! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif If it's 9 ball that you're playing on a barbox, you might have a little more room for seperation since you're only using 9 balls instead of 15. Atleast this has been my experience. OTH, I've smashed them suckers on a barbox and spread 'em out but the former happens more than the latter for me.

02-19-2003, 05:45 PM
I don't think the rack can be broken too hard in 8-ball or 9-ball. I do believe that every table/ball set has a sweet, spot so to speak. If you find the sweet spot and change either the table or the ball set, you'll notice a difference in results with the same break.

To a lesser degree, even with the same ball set, you can't control the variable of the balls not being racked in the same order every time. Slight differences in diameter from ball to ball will yeild unpredictable results.

I find it best to vary the speed and location of the break to find the best combination for the circumstances at hand.
Usually I end up with a hard break because the harder you hit 'em the longer they'll roll, giving better odds for finding a pocket.

bigbro6060
02-19-2003, 06:04 PM
i think there are definitly times when you can break too hard. there was a match in the world champs when Busty wasn't getting any joy on the break because he was breaking too hard for the table

landshark1002000
02-19-2003, 06:51 PM
Hi Sack:
With the break... what matters is the game (which game you're playing matters)... and your purpose.
In Eight Ball I want "spread". I want a third of the rack to cross the midline of the table and stay there.
And I want "shape". I want the cue ball to stay center table.
The purpose of the two goals is simple. "Spread" minimizes clusters (MINIMIZES,ok? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif). "Shape" maximizes opportunity for ball choices.
Sinking a ball on the break... you already understand the basics about what to do, what to try.
Can you hit the rack too hard? Kind of. Any break shot with power is going to loft the cue ball.
If you want to see it for yourself (it's kind of fun). Get a roll of dimes and lay them out starting from the head ball (in line with the cue ball). Hit your breakshot. The cue ball will jump over some of the coins and then bounce.
Obviously you don't want too much loft (or bounce). One of the problems with power-breaking is controlling your stroke at top speed. Your timing... the angle you actually contact the cue ball at... body movement... everything has to be perfectly coordinated. But instead of perfection... Murphy's Law usually shows up . (That's where everything that CAN go wrong...usually does.)
Anyway, try the dime thing and let me know what happens.
--Ted from Phoenix

sack316
02-19-2003, 10:43 PM
cool,thanks for all the response. I didn't have a roll of dimes tonight unfortunately. And also tonight I was in a tournament and when I was practicing my magic break cue decided to lose its tip, so I had to break with the much shorter house cue, so my normal break wasn't able to be tinkered with. I did wind up placing fifth, which did amaze me considering how bad I shot. it was double elimination 9 ball and the same guy beat me twice...grrrrr! oh well, when I get my tip and some dimes I'll play around with it. Thanks guys!

02-20-2003, 02:42 AM
Yes, Fast Larry

cheesemouse
02-20-2003, 08:24 AM
sack316,
That dime thing sounds dangerous...Not to long ago someone suggested rolling out adding machine paper on a line from the cb to the head ball and then layer carbon paper on top of that so a mark would be left where the cb lands before hitting the headball. Well, of course I had to try that and it does work. After messing with it for awhile I was able to adjust the landing spot with shaft angle and speed. It was fun and informative.

cycopath
02-20-2003, 10:39 AM
If you think someone is giving you looser racks start breaking softer. The tighter the rack the heavier I hit em.

Fred Agnir
02-20-2003, 02:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sack316:</font><hr> But I'm just curious if you can actually break too hard, .... <hr /></blockquote>
Of course.

Fred