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L.S. Dennis
02-22-2003, 01:23 AM
I have sitting in front of me a copy of 'The Billiard Congress Of America Official Rule Book' copyright 1948 ($1.25). In it on page 37 under the explanation of eight ball it states: "The rules of Eight Ball specify that the player pocketing the high numerical group of balls must pocket the 15-ball in the left side pocket, that is, in the side pocket to his left as he stands at the head of the table facing the foot of the table.

The player scoing the low numbered balls must pocket the 1-ball in the right side pocket. If the 1-and 15-balls are not placed in these pockets as required by the rules, they are spotted and respotted until the player is successful in accomplishing this purpose".

My question is isn't this game what was later to become known as 'Alabama Eight Ball'? And why was this version of the game abandoned for the less challanging form that we know today?

Rod
02-22-2003, 03:01 AM
I have no clue but this game was still being played with the 1 & 15 in each side when I first started playing. Never been to Ala Bam ah. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

L.S. Dennis
02-22-2003, 10:36 AM
I know that there's a simialar game being played in Italy called 'otto quindici' (that's eight fifteen) in which the eight and the fifteen go in the side pockects and the one is made last.

Fred Agnir
02-23-2003, 06:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote L.S. Dennis:</font><hr> I have sitting in front of me a copy of 'The Billiard Congress Of America Official Rule Book' copyright 1948 ($1.25). <hr /></blockquote>

I'm jealous. I'll give you 200% of the original purchase price for it. Or more. PM me if you'd like.

You can also find the 1948 8-ball rules at Jim Barr's site:

http://www.sound.net/~jimbarr/pplofkc/1948rules.html

[ QUOTE ]
My question is isn't this game what was later to become known as 'Alabama Eight Ball'? <hr /></blockquote>
Probably not. I mean, I'm sure someone from Alabama went somewhere else and played by those rules, so someone called them "Alabama Eight Ball." Probably similar to Canadians calling certain pool games "Boston pool." But those rules are still played by people who may have started off playing with them as youngsters. There's a senior community that I used to visit whose star player, a youthful 90+, would only play 8-ball with those rules.

[ QUOTE ]
And why was this version of the game abandoned for the less challanging form that we know today? <hr /></blockquote>
Probably because those rules represent the worst in 8-ball, IMO. There were more ways to lose, than win. The fact that you had to play the one in the side and the 15 in the side automatically allows lesser players to be in the game longer than they should.

One-pocket already was around, so the strategic portion of those 8-ball rules wasn't anywhere near comparable one-pocket. So, I can see why they'd do away with the 1/15 rule, if gaining popularity was an issue.

Fred

Wally_in_Cincy
02-23-2003, 11:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>
....Probably because those rules represent the worst in 8-ball, IMO. There were more ways to lose, than win. The fact that you had to play the one in the side and the 15 in the side automatically allows lesser players to be in the game longer than they should.....

<hr /></blockquote>

And for that reason I do not like "Bank the 8"

Wally~~hates "Bank the 8"

L.S. Dennis
02-23-2003, 11:50 AM
Wally,
Interesting thoughts, instead of adding a dimension of difficuly to the game that should favor the better players you think just the opposit would occur. I'll have to think about that one.

Wally_in_Cincy
02-23-2003, 12:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote L.S. Dennis:</font><hr> Wally,
Interesting thoughts, instead of adding a dimension of difficuly to the game that should favor the better players you think just the opposit would occur. I'll have to think about that one. <hr /></blockquote>

I have no numbers to back it up. Just my gut feeling. Sometimes you might not have a makeable bank on the 8 for 2 or 3 shots, meanwhile your opponent has a wide open table and is clearing off his balls.

The nature of 8-ball already gives a sporting chance to the weaker player, I guess that's why it's popular. Adding "Bank the 8" lengthens the game, thereby giving even more chances to someone who should have lost already. JMO

Wally

L.S. Dennis
02-23-2003, 12:37 PM
Wally,
I don't necessarily like the idea of banking the eight either. However I do kind of like the the one and fifteen in the side pockets though.

There used to be an old italian bar called 'Caffe Italia' in the italian quarter of San Francisco where they used to play eight ball this way. They called it Otto Quindici (eight fifteen) same game essentially and there the stratagy was to to make the side pocket shots as early in the game as possible. I remember a lot of people losing a lot of money there because they didn't understand this concept. There tends to be a certain element of guerilla warfare involved when played this way.

cheesemouse
02-23-2003, 02:14 PM
There's a reason this game is not popular nation wide. It complicates unnessesaarily an already difficult game...in a more economic use of words: "it is a stupid game".........IMHO..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

L.S. Dennis
02-23-2003, 09:45 PM
Hey Cheese,
I respectfully disagree with 2 of your 3 comments. First of all I agree it does complicate the game (which is good!) because eight ball is an already EASY game (which is bad!) relatively speaking and therefore make it a GOOD game!

cheesemouse
02-23-2003, 10:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote L.S. Dennis:</font><hr> Hey Cheese,
I respectfully disagree with 2 of your 3 comments. First of all I agree it does complicate the game (which is good!) because eight ball is an already EASY game (which is bad!) relatively speaking and therefore make it a GOOD game! <hr /></blockquote>

Dennis,
No disrepect intended here but where I play 8-ball it is not an EASY game. It is run out or lose...

ceebee
02-24-2003, 11:38 AM
the main reason 8-Ball isn't played with those rules anymore is this; it's too difficult to play on a BAR BOX.
Another GREAT added requirement is having to make the 8 in the pocket you made your last ball. Easy for the position player, difficult for some good players, impossible for the masses.

Most all of Pool Games have been made easier to make it more fun for the mediocre player. Hell the Snooker Table used to be 12 foot long &amp; the full size Pool Table was 10 foot long x 5 foot wide. The tables have been shortened &amp; the pockets opened up, so the game would be over quicker.

Just for grins... try some SHORT RACK 8-Ball (4 solids, 4 stripes &amp; the 8 Ball..... racked like 9-Ball). A good player with a great Break will beat you to death... 6-8-10 racks is average for an 8-Speed on a Bar Box.

Wally_in_Cincy
02-24-2003, 11:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr> the main reason 8-Ball isn't played with those rules anymore is this; it's too difficult to play on a BAR BOX.<hr /></blockquote>

As opposed to a 9' table?

You really think it's that much harder on a bar table? I don't see why it would be.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr> Another GREAT added requirement is having to make the 8 in the pocket you made your last ball. Easy for the position player, difficult for some good players, impossible for the masses.<hr /></blockquote>

That might be the reason you are looking for.

L.S. Dennis
02-24-2003, 12:41 PM
Actually in one of my earlier posts I mention this game being played by some high rolling Italians at Caffe Italia in San Francisco a few years ago. The table in Caffe Italia WAS a bar box which didn't seem to make it any harder or less appealing. The multitudes who continually lost there (and these old italian birds didn't mind betting their paychecks) were the ones who didn't understand the importance of moving the 1 and 15 (in their case it was the 8 and 15) towards the side pockets and getting those balls made and out of the way first!

It was great fun and as I said before a good chance to exercise a metered amount of gueilla warfare!

ceebee
03-01-2003, 02:49 PM
I didn't mean difficult in playing the game... because of the table size, I should have made that point clearer.

It's difficult in that you have to FEED the BAR BOX with quarters (or stick your hand in the pocket to block the make... which is a foul), in order to RE-SPOT the 1 or 15 if not made in the designated hole. You can use the 1 or 15 to gain shape on the proper side pocket shot, you RE-SPOT the 1 or 15 after all of your selected balls (stripes or solids) have been pocketed.

I've shot the 1 ball into 7 different holes (it was the last ball) before gaining the perfect position on the designated side pocket.

landshark1002000
03-01-2003, 08:53 PM
Hi Wally:
The 9 footer gives you more "green" but the bar box (with less square footage of table) multiplies the influence of the eclipse zones -- and that big ball is another factor too.
--Ted from Phoenix

landshark1002000
03-02-2003, 04:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>

Hi Wally:
I agree with this. While playing a stronger player the other day I won because he missed getting shape on his key ball -- leaving me an easier table. I think 8 ball leaves more room for strategy than 9 ball (for example). So I prefer to play a game that challenges my creative side too.

As for Alabama 8 ball -- never played it. Not sure I'd be that interested. Why not just play GOLF?

Bank the 8 is a good game for players of equal skill. It's a tiny step toward one pocket too.

--Ted from Phoenix