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02-25-2003, 12:39 PM
Does anyone know what the situation is with Eddie Robbin? Alive, dead, missing? His books are interesting but impossible to find; I'm not sure if ANY copies of some of his planned titles were printed. Maybe he would allow someone to put the books online. For three cushion fans, I saw that Raymond Ceulemans "Mr. 100" book might be reprinted. This book is also scarce, even in Europe.

02-25-2003, 10:55 PM
this guy was a fargin genius, and none of you could deal with the fact he was so far out in front of you it was scary. I have all of his books, he gave them to me. The last time I saw him he had booked it out of Vegas & was living in Phoenix, I went by his place to see him. Things did not look like they were going all that well for him. What happened to his books, I know, but don't ask, it was a very tangled web. Best Wishes, Fast Larry

bluewolf
02-26-2003, 06:15 AM
We really want to get his first op book but cannot find it. If anybody knows where there is a copy, please let me know. I have looked on ebay but not seen it there.

Laura

Fred Agnir
02-26-2003, 07:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> We really want to get his first op book but cannot find it. If anybody knows where there is a copy, please let me know. I have looked on ebay but not seen it there.

Laura <hr /></blockquote>
Winning One Pocket comes up once in a while on eBay. There's one on there right now at an unbelievably high price:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=2712159507&amp;category=21 210

Fred

02-26-2003, 07:30 AM
Looks like all three are on there now..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=2713747892&amp;category=12 92

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;category=1292&amp;item=27137502 38&amp;rd=1

Sought after indeed.

bluewolf
02-26-2003, 08:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> We really want to get his first op book but cannot find it. If anybody knows where there is a copy, please let me know. I have looked on ebay but not seen it there.

Laura <hr /></blockquote>
Winning One Pocket comes up once in a while on eBay. There's one on there right now at an unbelievably high price:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=2712159507&amp;category=21 210

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

WOW We have the strategies one, second one, but it does not do a person much good if you dont have the first one.

Laura

Popcorn
02-26-2003, 09:03 AM
In all honestly, except for a lot of the interesting photos of players. did you really think it was really a very good instruction book on one pocket? I thought because there was nothing else out there it was OK, but that is about it. It had a lot of meaningless content. He shows you multiple ways to do a shot with most of them wrong. It was well put together but I did not think much of it otherwise. It is becoming legendary for no real reason, other then you can't get it. May be of value to a collector, but I would not recommend someone paying a high price for it with some idea they will come away as a master of one pocket. The book is kind of a lot of fluff. I think people are overly impressed by the way it looks Just my opinion

Popcorn
02-26-2003, 09:42 AM
Who is the "You" you are referring to? I don't think there is a person on here, except for a one or two that, that even know the guy. His books were overly ambitious. If he had just concentrated on putting out a few good books, and he had a list of books he wanted to produce, with a lot of that information he had compiled in his files, it would have been great. Instead, he wanted to put out a book that was way to expensive to produce, and took forever to finish, that he hasn't helped anybody to speak of, or made any money off it. He may be a genius, but it doesn't show when it came to publishing books. He had no idea what he was doing. Now we have a new secret, Larry knows where Eddie has hidden all his books, but he is not telling.

bluewolf
02-26-2003, 10:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> In all honestly, except for a lot of the interesting photos of players. did you really think it was really a very good instruction book on one pocket? I thought because there was nothing else out there it was OK, but that is about it. It had a lot of meaningless content. He shows you multiple ways to do a shot with most of them wrong. It was well put together but I did not think much of it otherwise. It is becoming legendary for no real reason, other then you can't get it. May be of value to a collector, but I would not recommend someone paying a high price for it with some idea they will come away as a master of one pocket. The book is kind of a lot of fluff. I think people are overly impressed by the way it looks Just my opinion <hr /></blockquote>

GEEZ. If whaT you say is true, then I guess that there arent any good op books. I have koehler's pocket billiards but if the op is anything like that it would be too technical. I would want something simple when I get around to doing it.

Laura

bluewolf
02-26-2003, 10:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Who is the "You" you are referring to? I don't think there is a person on here, except for a one or two that, that even know the guy. His books were overly ambitious. If he had just concentrated on putting out a few good books, and he had a list of books he wanted to produce, with a lot of that information he had compiled in his files, it would have been great. Instead, he wanted to put out a book that was way to expensive to produce, and took forever to finish, that he hasn't helped anybody to speak of, or made any money off it. He may be a genius, but it doesn't show when it came to publishing books. He had no idea what he was doing. Now we have a new secret, Larry knows where Eddie has hidden all his books, but he is not telling. <hr /></blockquote>

I thought robbin only had three books. Are there more?

Laura

Popcorn
02-26-2003, 10:44 AM
That was just my opinion and with people trying to get $500. and more for the books, it is far from worth it. A good knowledgeable one pocket player, so inclined, with some writing skills or with help from someone with writing skills, could put together a book containing similar or better information. Put in a loose leaf form it could be affordable to produce and sell, this would bring the game to many more people. Eddie got too caught up in the production of the book and lost his original vision. He had plans to put out a series of books and it would not have been possible the way he went about it. He had no idea what he was doing, and it is a loss to everybody because he had a lot to offer. It is hard for most to be critical of the book, since there is nothing to compare it to. But objectively, it's content is nothing special. That was my point.

bluewolf
02-26-2003, 10:47 AM
Well I was certainly shocked at the price. That would be kool if a few of the knowlegeable op players here would put together a pamplet or two.HINT HINT

Also I wonder if there are good videos.

Laura

02-26-2003, 11:12 AM
Winning One Pocket and Shots, Moves and Strategies are both excellent books. Accustats 1-800-828-0397 has Shots, Moves, and Stategies. I'm sure that someone in your geographic area would have Winning One Pocket and may consider lending it to you for a period if you were unable to purchase one. Let me know in this forum if you are unable to find it and I may be able to assist you. Stedyfred

Scott Lee
02-26-2003, 11:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>

Also I wonder if there are good videos.

Laura <hr /></blockquote>

Geez, ya already HAVE one of the better ones! LOL

02-26-2003, 11:28 AM
Grady Matthews Finishing Touch tape is very good on the end game of one pocket and Accustats has plenty of one pocket matches on tape. Stedyfred

Fred Agnir
02-26-2003, 02:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> did you really think it was really a very good instruction book on one pocket? <hr /></blockquote>
Yup, I really do. Aside from the Robbin books, the Accustat tapes where the players voice-over the commentary are the best one-pocket teaching aids I can think of. I learned virtually nothing from Koehler's offering, though I've heard others rave about it.

But, I'll clarify that by saying that it's all how you view what you're viewing and what you're looking for. I wasn't looking for systems or "how to play one-pocket" instruction. I was looking for shot choices and reasons for choices, which IMO, is what one-pocket is all about. Both Winning One-Pocket and Shot, Moves, Strategies accomplishes that. If you're looking for banking lanes, angles, and kick systems, then maybe Koehler's Science of One Pocket would be the better choice.

Fred

bluewolf
02-26-2003, 04:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>


Okay. ray said that is about breaking. Does it have stuff on it that would help me as a beginner to understand the game basics???

Laura

bluewolf
02-26-2003, 04:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred McCann:</font><hr> Winning One Pocket and Shots, Moves and Strategies are both excellent books. Accustats 1-800-828-0397 has Shots, Moves, and Stategies. I'm sure that someone in your geographic area would have Winning One Pocket and may consider lending it to you for a period if you were unable to purchase one. Let me know in this forum if you are unable to find it and I may be able to assist you. Stedyfred <hr /></blockquote>

My husband really wanted winning op and me too, but thought it was more like 100$,not 500$

So yes we would like to get one.

Laura

02-26-2003, 08:13 PM
I see from your post that you are located in Md. Have you checked with some of the one pocket players in your area for a copy? If you do check with them and come up empty, I can and will make a few calls in an attempt to assist you or I could possibly lend; I repeat lend you my copy. I'm in Pa. Stedyfred

bluewolf
02-26-2003, 09:05 PM
Thankyou Fred. We know a one pocket guy who has played for a long time, teaches, and runs a ph. I am sure he would give us contacts to look for one.

Laura

02-26-2003, 10:54 PM
Dear Mr. Popcorn, when Robbins came out with the one pocket book, I never once heard a serious money playing one pocket player say any thing good about it, most said it was filled with a lot of trick shots that came up once a year. This is not my opinion, just what I heard. I think the problem was, most of these guys thought they knew more about the game than Robbins &amp; by running down his work, it showed what a great expert they are. As I dont play one pocket, never have, never will, I bow out of this now, I know nothing about this game, I will leave this to those of you who are experts in this arena. Fast Larry Guninger

Popcorn
02-26-2003, 11:26 PM
I was being totally serious. He gave me a book also, in fact, he may have given away more books then he sold. My criticism was not of Eddies knowledge, just how the book was constructed. The method he choose to use seemed like he became more concerned with jamming in stuff rather then it being a real hard-core work about one pocket. If they are trick shots you would not shoot if you had a gun on you, what good is it to the player trying to learn the game. He would show you several things not to do, I don't get that, and what he feels is the shot. Most of the time, the shot, is some Ronnie Allen type shot he used to blow the backers money with. If you ever bet on Ronnie, you know what I mean. It is not the scholarly work it was planed to be. I don't know how this happened, because Eddie does know the game. The book just ended up a leather bound mess. I don't think anyone was being unfair about the book, what do you want them to do, lie? No body is jealous of Eddie, I wish his original vision had come to pass. He planed a whole series of books, but the way he went about it was ridicules. Don't feel you have to defend Eddie, you take everything personal, the book in fact is not very good. It looks nice though.

Anonamus
02-27-2003, 07:40 AM
I only have Shots, Moves and Strategies and I am satisfied with it. Popcorn's remarks maybe accurate but I think the book has enough for the beginner to learn to justify it's original price. When I first started playing 1P I would look at the diagrams and have absolutely no clue on what to do. After a while I started seeing solutions. I think that happened for two reasons; 1) I learned from playing with experienced players that helped me, and 2) the book helped develop my 1P thinking. It's like taking a book full of tests. Even if you don't come up with Eddie's answer it forces you to start thinking about ways to get out of tough situations. And because of that I think it is the single best book you can buy on 1P today.

Having said that, the best way I have learned is by taking stupid shots and losing the game because of it. If you are like me, after a while you start to really hate losing. Then you learn what shots not to take and why and you figure out what offensive shots will give you the best outcome consistently. You also figure out which shots you need to practise and which shots you can rely on.

I don't think a book can teach you that. Books can't realy teach you patience, knowing the percentage of a shot, how to set up and recognize a trap several moves in advance and developing a pocket speed stroke.

Buy the book if the price is reasonable, it won't hurt. But keep in mind a lot of the shots are to hard to execute consistently. The diagrams in the book show what happened in a match when a professional had his back against the wall and came out shooting and was sucessful. I think Eddie could have filled up another book on desperate shots that didn't work out.

landshark1002000
02-28-2003, 03:33 AM
Hi Anonymous:
I like your idea that pool books rarely teach us HOW to play but instead they get us to think up our own ideas about WHY to play a shot. In short, the great books seem to be able to help us think better, more creatively.

This is a tough job. I know because I've been working on a book about eight ball strategy for several years now.

Thanks for the post. --Ted from Phoenix

Every writer faces the challenge of HOW to get his reader to think for himself.

Gerry
02-28-2003, 05:09 AM
IMO, I think 1-pocket would be an extremely difficult subject to write about. aside from the very basic break and moves, the game is so personality oriented that after learning the basic moves we all go our own way in terms of strategy and comfort zone. 14.1, 9-ball,8-ball, I think can be taught somewhat from a book because they involve seeing patterns. 1-pocket is like art where your brain, creativity, cunning and personality really shine through......Gerry

Paul_Mon
02-28-2003, 05:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gerry:</font><hr> IMO, I think 1-pocket would be an extremely difficult subject to write about. aside from the very basic break and moves, the game is so personality oriented that after learning the basic moves we all go our own way in terms of strategy and comfort zone. 14.1, 9-ball,8-ball, I think can be taught somewhat from a book because they involve seeing patterns. 1-pocket is like art where your brain, creativity, cunning and personality really shine through......Gerry <hr /></blockquote>

tap...tap...tap

Popcorn
02-28-2003, 09:43 AM
I agree to an extent, but, to play good one pocket you need to understand the theory behind what you are trying to do, and that can be taught. It is not a game of, If you are here you do this, or from there you do that. One tiny change in the lay of the balls, may require a different strategy, still with the same goal in mind. There are a lot of rules of play, that if you are aware of them and stick to them will keep you out of trouble. The end game can defiantly be taught as can the early game. Midway through the game, zillions of things come up that may require you to bend a few rules with creativity, and that is where the fun really begins.

Gerry
02-28-2003, 04:32 PM
Well said Popcorn!, hey, Whats tap...tap...tap... mean?...thanx...Gerry

02-28-2003, 04:41 PM
Dear Mr. Popcorn, I have read all of your posts on this subject, they are very well written, very well thought out. I kills me to say this, but I agree with every word you wrote. You do miss the point, Imagine walking up to the mona lisa &amp; the poor guy did not finish the job &amp; all you had to see was the top of the ladies head. Had Eddie finished the entire project, everything, every subject he was planning on doing, then after all of his current competitors &amp; current critics die off, 10 years from now new people with a fresh prespective would hail it as the greatest. Almost all of the great painters, lived in total poverty &amp; starved in their day, because the critics said their work stunk. I am not here to defend Eddies books, or tell you a entire uhaul storage bin was full of them up to the roof, just sitting there. I only want to talk about the man, not his book. Few people know that Byrne does not play pool, he is a 3 cushion player, he just makes his money writing about a game that sells,pool, 3 cushion does not sell. Eddie was a 3 cushion player also. Remember me trying to explain to you guys that there were a lot of billiards experts running around that had forgotten more than you guys could ever learn, and that there was nothing you could teach them they did not already know, you'll all went fargin nuts over that one, but hell, I have been a student of several of these people in the past. One just died, Ray Schuler, a great engineer, a great cue builder, and not a bad 3 cushion player. Another such genius is Robbins, none of you guys liked him, because you could not understand him, because he was too far out in front of you, sorry, but that's the friggin truth. Most of you are cave men compared to him, that's how far out in front a guy like him can get, and when he really gets out there, he can get really weird &amp; impossible to deal with. I ask permission to come to meet him to become a student, I asked what billiard parlor would he like to meet me at. He said I have seen you play &amp; seen your shots, no pool hall is necessary, come to my place. I go oh boy, we are going to learn on his Verhoven, with heated 300 &amp; I bet Ivory balls. I get there &amp; it's a 2 room apt in a bad part of town, One room you sleep in, the other room you eat, cook, &amp; he works on his cpu drawing shots for his next book. He say's why do you come to me. I said I seek the truth, I want to know, exactly how to do all of these things, perfect, and I believe you sir hold that knowledge. He says well first I must test you, I go test me, sir, I just won a world trick shot championship,I said sir, quote me your fee and I will pay it. He stops me and say's this has nothing to do with money, first we must test you on many subjects. I said why, he said to see if you know, and if you are worthy. He runs through 20 questions, I answer every one of them, not once does he show any emotion, and let on if I was right or wrong, when he is done, he says OK, you know, now what is your first question, I said well let's go to a table and play, I'll cover all of the cost's. The guy had not shaved in a week, he was beginning to look like a hermit, I figured it would do him good to get out in public, bang some ivories around &amp; then feed him a good steak. He says we do not need a table. He said sit down, close your eyes, now imagine a table sits in front of you, and there it is. From cue ball position zero, you are shooting off of the head rail in front of the bottom right pocket on a pool table, now shoot top left with running side &amp; hit diamond 2, then what are the next diamonds you hit, and I said usually diamonds 7 and 2 &amp; then in off in the left side pocket. He said, see, we dont need to waste gasoline to go find a pool table, we have one sitting right in front of us. I went but sir, my first question, was how to hold the cue properly, where at, how many fingers are on it, what pressure do I use, where are the pressure points, is there any one finger that leads the way, let me get my cue out of it's case &amp; hold the cue so you can show me, He goes stop, we dont need a cue, imagine a cue in your mind, now place your fingers on it. That is the way it went, we played pool &amp; a lesson was taught in space, from one mind to another, it was like he was spock &amp; was giving me a GD vulcan mind meld. I guess what I want you guys to know is you messed real bad with this guys wa &amp; he got pissed &amp; booked it &amp; really never came back, and it is all of you, who lost big time. Dont piss off the next genius who walks up in front of you, he may walk off just like Robbins did, and once more, you are the ones who lose. The Monk, has his way of teaching, just because it may be totally different from the Scott Lee BCA teaching manual, does not mean it is wrong, it may work for some, it may not work for others, but always allow there to be freedom, without that, teaching, or the game never grows or progresses, which is why the game is not doing that today, every day it keeps going backwards, and getting smaller &amp; smaller &amp; smaller. Small minds, have a small vision. Can you imagine me showing up at the Hopkins Expo, sell 30 people a $300 lesson, then tell them to sit down, form a circle, hold hands, now in your mind draw a pool table, now draw a cue, now hold that cue, If I did that, the sheriff would come in &amp; cuff &amp; stuff both me &amp; Wonder Dog. There are some concepts, most of you, just can't imagine, or handle. Do I teach like Robbins, no, I would like to, but you would have to be close to being a zen master to deal with that and to deal with me. My class is like being in a Karate do jo, everything you do, must be perfect. If you cant handle perfect, I ask you to leave, you are not worthy, you are not welcome, you disturbe my wa. When I left Mr. Robbins, I pulled out a roll of C notes &amp; said tell me what I owe you, he said nothing, you sought the truth and you found it, he loads up all of his books in my arms free, and opens the door &amp; I walk out into the Phoenix warm sun praying the hubcaps are still on my getaway car. Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger

NH_Steve
02-28-2003, 04:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gerry:</font><hr> Well said Popcorn!, hey, Whats tap...tap...tap... mean?...thanx...Gerry <hr /></blockquote>I think the tap-tap-tap is simulating the respectful tap-tap-tap of the butt of one's stick on the floor to acknowledge a nice shot -- kinda like finger snapping...

NH_Steve
02-28-2003, 04:52 PM
Good story Larry! I've enjoyed both of Eddie's One Pocket books, even though they are a little unclear at times. I use them to maybe enrich my game a little -- not learn from scratch -- and also to entertain myself with a little One Pocket thinking when I am stuck up here in NH so far from any real One pocket action. I like the idea of virtual practice myself /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Scott Lee
03-01-2003, 12:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> The Monk, has his way of teaching, just because it may be totally different from the Scott Lee BCA teaching manual, does not mean it is wrong, it may work for some, it may not work for others, but always allow there to be freedom, without that, teaching, or the game never grows or progresses, which is why the game is not doing that today, every day it keeps going backwards, and getting smaller &amp; smaller &amp; smaller. Small minds, have a small vision.

Fast Larry Guninger <hr /></blockquote>

Gee Larry, I wasn't aware that you had seen my "teaching manual"...which btw, is NOT BCA...it is my own innovation! LOL I know Tim Miller, and enjoy his teaching. In fact I use one of his exercises in my own lessons...and I give HIM credit for it! Imagine that!

Too bad you feel like the game is shrinking. Due to terrific improvements in the game, like league play, and women's organizations, I think the game is increasing significantly each year. It is on television regularly, albeit less than most of us would like! The equipment is certainly manufactured better now, which adds to more enjoyment as well.

I certainly do my part to spread "the word"! I believe there is a lot to be said for KISS! Tell you one thing...for the majority of poolplayers out there, it works well to improve consistency and confidence quickly.

Scott Lee

Gerry
03-01-2003, 07:12 AM
Oh, I get it now Steve. I was picturing the substitute Nun tapping on the desk with the proverbial yard stick!.:)...Gerry