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02-25-2003, 11:29 PM
At a recent state eight ball tourney a player played a safety by shooting one of his object balls making one of his opponents balls that was hanging in the jaws of the pocket. Neither the cue ball or his object ball contacted a rail. The other player called a foul & cited the following rule from the rule sheet.
On all shots the player must strike one of the player's group of balls first and then either (a) pocket the object ball, or (b)cause the cue ball or any other ball to contact a rail. Failure to do so constitutes a foul."
The second player stated " a ball never hit a rail, therefore a foul was committed". I left before they come back from the officials table but I'm curious as to how you see this? Thanks, Dewey

dddd
02-25-2003, 11:45 PM
the answer is right there, the ball falls into the pocket, that constitutes a good hit.
the object ball in this case was to make the opponents ball.

Rod
02-25-2003, 11:49 PM
He made his opponents object ball, no foul. The rule does not state who's ball just an object ball.

qSHAFT
02-25-2003, 11:49 PM
Thats not the WPA international 8ball rule in which case that shot would be legal. But if you have a rule sheet specific to that tourney then I guess you would have to go with the foul.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/rules/rules4.htm

4.11 LEGAL SHOT

(Defined) On all shots (except on the break and when the table is open), the shooter must hit one of his group of balls first and (1) pocket a numbered ball, or (2) cause the cue ball or any numbered ball to contact a rail. Please Note: It is permissible for the shooter to bank the cue ball off a rail before contacting the object ball; however, after contact with the object ball, an object ball must be pocketed, or the cue ball or any numbered ball must contact a rail. Failure to meet these requirements is a foul.

Barbara
02-25-2003, 11:51 PM
dewey52,

When you call a safety under BCA rules, if you pocket an opponent's ball using one of your balls as the first contact, it is a legal safety.

So the player crying foul should not have been given ball in hand. But the player calling the safe does give up their turn at the table.

Barbara~~~awaiting the higher evaluation from the higher ups....

02-26-2003, 12:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dewey52:</font><hr> At a recent state eight ball tourney a player played a safety by shooting one of his object balls making one of his opponents balls that was hanging in the jaws of the pocket. Neither the cue ball or his object ball contacted a rail. The other player called a foul &amp; cited the following rule from the rule sheet.
On all shots the player must strike one of the player's group of balls first and then either (a) pocket the object ball, or (b)cause the cue ball or any other ball to contact a rail. Failure to do so constitutes a foul."
The second player stated " a ball never hit a rail, therefore a foul was committed". I left before they come back from the officials table but I'm curious as to how you see this? Thanks, Dewey <hr /></blockquote>


ok, i see what they're trying. kinda silly but it does come up. to quote you: "they're saying that a ball never hit a rail" (since the ball went into the pocket and nothing ever hit a "rail".) they think a rail is a cushion. nope. the pocket is part of the rail. by the equipment definitions, there are 4 rails and six cushions.

a ball hit a rail when it hit the pocket. people have tried to call this when a ball bounced out of a pocket. no sale.

perfectly legal shot.

dan

Troy
02-26-2003, 01:08 AM
I'm no "higher up", but I concur with Barbara, HoustonDan, Rod, et al --- absolutely NO FOUL.

Troy

Fred Agnir
02-26-2003, 07:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dewey52:</font><hr> The other player called a foul &amp; cited the following rule from the rule sheet.
On all shots the player must strike one of the player's group of balls first and then either (a) pocket the object ball, or (b)cause the cue ball or any other ball to contact a rail. Failure to do so constitutes a foul."<hr /></blockquote>
The problem is the rule sheet. It's misquoted, or it misquoted the actual rules. Part (a) should say:

pocket a numbered ball,

That should clarify (if it needs clarifying) what everyone else has already told you. No foul.

Fred

02-26-2003, 11:52 AM
Thanks for the input on this subject &amp; I think it is a problem with ambigious language on the rules sheet. But, these are the same rules we play under in league play &amp; I will try to submit a change to clarify that section. As someone previously stated, a simple change from (a) pocket the object ball to: (a) pocket a numbered ball, would clear this up. Now, to try &amp; get this changed. Thanks, Dewey