03-01-2003, 01:45 AM
Mr T writes, fast, you cant go away yet, you promised me a story. I read about what you wrote about Omana Fats at Johnston City, Ill, I love your pool stories, tell me more about the guy. I saw him hustle some good players in my home room years ago. You are right, the guy could play great & he was an awesome hustler.
Dear Mr. T, there is a old saying, the fish grows, and each time the story is told, the fish gets bigger. I was not there, I did not see the event, but I do believe it occured, because I knew the man, I heard him tell it soon after it happened, I heard him tell it 100 times over a span of 10 years, and he never changed the story. Here it is, as best as I can remember it from a half of a century ago, told in the vernacular of the time. I was a traveling salesman out of Kansas City in the 60's, my territory was 4 states. I called on a lot of hardware stores & went into a few pool halls along the river from KC to Omaha. I guess the story took place in or somewhere close to St Joseph, Mo. Many of those buildings were built in the l860's to the 1880's. I can remember walking across some of those old wood floors & doing a hail Mary when I crossed & the floor didn't cave in. I was in several places, that I am sure, had I leaped up & crashed my weight into the floor, it would have cracked or collapsed. Most of those old places were torn down soon after this story occured. Let me now try to tell the story, by becoming the Fat man if you may.
" I had been workin dis joint all day long. I did not have to keep the action down low, it wuz nutting but a bunch hay seeds in there who were just passin time & playing he haw. None of them had no money to really gamble with. I win, I lose. Later a couple of better marks roll in, I play them, I win, I lose. The betting begins, the amount begins to improve. Then this new guy appears, he begins to bet more, I play him real even, but let him win. I said let's do it again, I let him win barely again, everyone in da joint is beginnin to take da bait off of da hook. Then I heard one of them say, go get old Stick, then I knew my all day investment was just about to pay off. When Stick walked in the room, I made him, he made me. We play, I win, I lose. Guys like him usually dont have 2 dimes to rub together, and they don't play real strong on their own money, but thay can be great players, on other peoples money. On their money, begin to beat them, they will fold faster than a sears roebuck two dollar card table, & run faster than a kansas jackrabbit. They just wont lose their own money, they will scram, but let them get OPM, they will stick & stay all night long. So I was not after stick, I was after the boodle bags of the rail birds, who were now startin to fill up da joint, as word got around, a roadie was in town, and old Stick was about to take him out. Hot doggie, this was like a baseball world series to these yokels, nothing happens in a place like that. These merchants live a real boring life, they work in a boring place, they go home to a boring wife. The only place they can escape to is the pool hall, and when a big time game comes along, they all want a piece of it. You see the art of this con, is convincing every one in da place, that the home town hero is gonna win. I keep lettin Stick win barely, and he maybe has me stuck a couple of c notes, which I considered nuttin but an investment, a temporary cash flow problem, which would later lead to a ROI, return on my investment. I hustled a guy who worked at a bank once, and dat is the way he explained to me how I work. Old stick, is happy as hell to grab my 2 c notes & head back to the farm, & still be the local champion. He is makin no move to up the bet, he smells the trap, dis guy did not just fall off of the back of a hay wagon. There is no way after losing to him for the last 2 hours I am going to ask to raise the bet & then blow my cover, so I tell him he is too good, and I cant continue to play until he gives me a spot & gives me a chance to win. Spot he says, spot is the name of my dog, I dont give nobody a spot, are you kidding. So we stand there & argue over spot nose to nose & the rail birds are getting nervous cause da game has stopped & there is no winner, you see they must have a winner here. So I said, I am tired of this penney annie crap, if you want to really play for some loot, I am in, if you dont, then I am out of here, I'll drive down to Kansas City, I can be there in an hour & get some action. I said I am going into the can to wash up, have me an answer when I get out. Well the railbirds get together and put together what my banker mark calls a consortium, what that means is a big group of marks pools dare loot to get conned. When I come out old Stick is bankrolled by the entire damn town. He say's OK mister, you wanna play some big time pool, how much. I pull a carbuncle outta my sock so big it could choke a mule, I begin to count it out, I toss da entire bankroll into the pocket & said fade that, all of it, or any part of it. Old Stick turns white, dis wuz a lot more loot dan he had ever played for before, of which dis I wuz countin on. He say's one moment please, they have a huddle like you see in a football game, Old Stick assures the hay seeds every thing is under control, and they cover the bet, they toss their loot on top of mine. Old stick says it's a bet if we play 8 ball, I said Alabama 8 ball, he said regular 8 ball, the first guy who wins 6 games wins the loot. Stick wins the lag & breaks & runs 3 racks in a row, dis guy wuz really hustlin me, and is a lot better dan I dreamed he wuz, I am thinkin, I could lose my entire sock here, maybe I should have just bet half of da sock. You know the rule, never bet the entire sock, some body can just flat get lucky on you.
Finally Stick misses a shot, and I begin to fight back. Now we are tied, 5 games a piece, I break, make a ball, but two balls roll funny down at the other end of the table, they don't lay good, but the 8 ball is on the rail but only a half diamond from the bottom corner pocket. It really isn't a run out table, but in this situation, playing a guy that good, if your hot, your hot, you gotta shoot. I run the first 4 balls real fast and lose, then move down table, I shoot the hard cut, make it, but roll bad on the next ball. I make it, but just barely clip his ball & dead ass snooker my self behind his balls. I have no shot now on the 8 ball. What I have just now done is committed the 8 ball mortal sin, if you cant run 8, don't run 7. It's a done did deal as soon as old stick gets his hands on the cue ball, he is out in a flash & I am doomed. I have left him a wide open table, your granny could run out from there. All da rail birds are goin nuts, laughing at me & slappin each other on da back, they are all countin da loot they are gonna make. I call the 8 ball in da corner, Stick stares at me, where did you say, right there I pointed. Every one in da joint is lookin at the other guy saying how is he gonna do that. Bang, I hit a 5 rail bank shot, the cue ball hits rails l-2-3, ah looking good, it hits rail 4, looking really good now, comes off rail 5, holy cow, this is a Hungrarian mortal lock, da cue ball is tracking dead on the 8 ball, it's gonna cut it in the corner & I am going to clean out the entire joint. When the cue ball got about a foot away and there was no doubt the 8 was going in, I yelled ya hoo, I leaped up into the air, I weight 320 lbs, so I did not jump that high of course, but when I came down I slamed my feet hard into the floor, dare was dis crack of thunder, the floor collapsed, and I disappeared from view, I fell through the floor into the basement below. The scene was later described to me by one of the rail birds, nobody moved, you could hear a pin drop, every one in da joint was frozen in place, paralyzed. Here wuz dis big hole in da floor, dust & light was rising up out of there & you could not hear nuttin. I wuz lucky, under there a pool table had been set up, and there wuz a lotta boxes sitting on top of it, which broke my fall, or I could have been really hurt. So I am laying out flat, thinkin to my self, am I dead, and I begin to move this, OK< and move that, OK, and to my total astonishment, not only am I alive, but un hurt other than a few minor injuries, no broken bones, which was a miracle. Den I hear one of da rail birds say, did you see that, and another rail bird says, that guy has gotta be dead. Den I began to realize, I am down here, and all of da lettace is up there. I yelled up through the hole, I am fine, and I am on the way up just as soon as I can find the stairs, & when I get up there, I don't want nobody telling me that 8 ball did not fall, and I want every penny of that money to still be in the pocket. The back door opens, I come walkin in, covered with dust & dirt, wood splinters in my arms, a little blood on my forehead, I grab da loot, get in my get away car & laid rubber going down the steet. I wuz told later, when I walked out of da front door with all of da loot, nobody in da joint moved for almost 5 minutes, they all just sat their like a bunch of statues in da park. end of story, as told by Martin Kiaman, Omaha Fat, in the l950's. Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger, shoot straight, innovate & never give up, VENI, VIDI, VICI......

03-01-2003, 02:09 AM
Minnesota Fats has that story in his book The Bank Shot on page 225. The game he is playing is bank pool with some guy named Louie Russo in town outside of perth amboy in jersey.
Much shorter version than yours.

03-01-2003, 02:36 AM
He is not the only one to steal the story, a very famous l4.l star, who used to live in NJ, who now lives in Fla, also put the same story in his book. That makes two that have stole it, I am sure the list can expand to end up looking like the yellow pages phone book. Read my disclaimer, I said, I was not there, I did not see it, I am only a reporter here, reporting what I heard, period. Look at this from another point of view, it is damn obvious it actually happened to somebody, who in the hell could dream up a story like that, so now, does it really matter who it was, all that really counts, is this, it has to be the best pool story of all time, or in my top 5, that is all I know, and every body knows, I dont no nuttin. I hate to toss heat on Fatty, but did any one any where ever hear the man say or tell anything that was not made up or he did not steal from somebody else. There are 7 things I do better than any other man on earth, did any one every hear him actually list the 7, you went with him being the world champion talker, the best eater, but the best lover???? the best pool player?????? Willie Mooosss scone E, give me a break, he could not carry Willies jock strap into a billiard hall, but he had everyone convinced Willie was his whipping boy. Now he has you convinced every thing he writes in his book must be true???????Best Wishes, Fast Larry

03-01-2003, 03:45 AM
Now he has you convinced every thing he writes in his book must be true???????Best Wishes, Fast Larry

Larry, Larry, Larry, where and i repeat where in my above post do i say anything about the story being true false or otherwise ???? Please show me.
All and i repeat All i said was it was in Fats book and what page its on. Now am i right or not ??
Where did i imply anything other than what i wrote ? You seem to have gotten more out of what i wrote than what i did write.
You got to start calming down and taking deep breaths larry,youre going to have a stroke over a message board ??
Yo Larrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, ya hear me ???
Calm down, take it easy, lifes easier that way.
Ya know what im saying there Larrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ???
Maybe it might make ya feel better if i said i thought Fats was as full of it as the guy who told you the story ??

03-01-2003, 09:24 AM
Who cares where the story actually originated. It's a great story none the less.
Fast, I gotta give you that. You are one hell of a story teller. Kinda like the Mr. Rogers of the poolhall. I love em. Keep em coming.

03-01-2003, 09:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr> Who cares where the story actually originated. It's a great story none the less.
Fast, I gotta give you that. You are one hell of a story teller. Kinda like the Mr. Rogers of the poolhall. I love em. Keep em coming. <hr /></blockquote>
Ditto from here -- thanks for the story.

I went to the Derby City Classic this year &amp; loved all the tremendous pool action, but I almost enjoyed just hearing all the stories floating around just as much as the action. If you have never been, the whole hotel is swarming with players, sweaters, backers, etc -- and it seemed like just about anyone who is not totally engrossed in a game is either tellin' or listenin' to a story.

--&gt; Steve only wished he had better hearing /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

03-01-2003, 10:19 AM
Great story Fast. I really enjoyed it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif


PS I don't care where it came from, you tell a good story.

03-01-2003, 01:54 PM
I loved that story, Larry!!! I am waiting eagerly on the next one. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif


03-02-2003, 07:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Great story Fast. I really enjoyed it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif


PS I don't care where it came from, you tell a good story. <hr /></blockquote>

He is defanately a World Champion story teller.

03-03-2003, 10:32 AM
Dear Mr. Hopster
I post the fat man story, by a direct request for it, and for no other reason. It was my hope &amp; desire that there might be some people out there who might enjoy it. A story is to entertain &amp; amuse. I had no other objective other than that. Am I over reacting, why yes, Everything I say or do, somebody has an issue with, &amp; then posts a reply like you did, when you said I was full of s***. I post the story and 2 minutes later, your response sort of came into me like I stole the story from somebody else, therefore making me out to be a liar. I am a very honest man, as a 4 palm eagle scout, I still live my life by those 12 corny out of date rules of life, one of them is to be trustworty, and to be that, you cant be a liar. Another one is to be reverent, and being brought up in a very religious christian family, being a liar was not only a sin, but brought great shame upon you. Sir, every post I have made, somebody has either attacked me, or called me a liar. You can call me a dirty dog, you can say I am the worst player on earth, that I can live with, but being a liar I cant handle. All those before me just made up everything they did. I am the first person to come along &amp; prove everthing I did by the strict Guinness world book of record requirements, and all I got from that was to be branded a liar, even when the proof was over whelming. Now I try to tell a simple story and I am full of s***.
Well you probably got me on that one, and I probably have to pleed guilty as charged. Let's do this, how about I appoint you as the grand most exaulted master story teller for the board, you from now on post all of the stories, and I will never post another one again, somebody full of s*** should not be posting any thing, so that is exactly what I will do, then you cannot attack my work and then I cant over react, this solves both of our problems sir. You live in Las Vegas, tell me some stories about the Greek shootin crap, you have to have a million of them. I am sure you can tell a much better story than I can. If you dont have any pool stories, then post some from your Fats book, he had a zillion them, and was truely the best story teller pool ever had. All the man ever did was lie &amp; make up stories, and his reward for that was the BCA put him into their hall of fame, the guy never entered or won a tourney, I bet poor old Willie Hoppe rolled over in his grave when he heard the news. Here are the 7 things fatty did better than any other man on earth, the problem is nobody every heard all 7, I can out eat any man on earth, out talk any man on earth, out bank any man on earth, Ok so far, I might give him the first 3, #4 out shoot &amp; out play any man on earth, Fatty, every hear of Hoppe or Mosconi???? Out love any man on earth, let's see, the guy is ugly, 300 lbs, looks like a fireplug, has no neck, does not dress well, is ignorant, never got through the third grade, &amp; he is a ladies man, laid Fatima of the 7 viels, then comes back 20 years later &amp; lays her daughter, and she was so grateful she gave the great stud a ruby from her belly button, I can out piss any man on earth, I can piss longer, straighter &amp; higher, see dat tree over there, I can piss over the top of it, he is pointing to a giant oak tree. There is 6 of them, if any one knows what the 7th one is, please tell me. Now when a guy runs around telling that story every where he goes, to everyone he meets, is he truthful or is he a liar, and if he is a liar, should you take everything he puts in his book, with great caution. That was the point I was trying to make. Martin Kiaman was no better than Fatty, any hustler, is a liar, and all are. They have to lie to eat. If they did not lie about everything they do, they would fail at their profession, which to to lie to, and con marks. A mark comes up &amp; fatty says to him, dont play me for money, I am too good, I am 3 times better than you are, I will take all of your money.
If Fatty tells the truth, he starves, or for God's sake, then has to go out &amp; get a job &amp; actually go to work &amp; earn an honest living &amp; stop &amp; preying on people. So the hustler lies saying his abilities are far worse than they really are. My position is any pool hustler is a liar, and they all should be taken with a grain of salt, and what they say they do,like I said earlier, you should half, then probably half once more, and then you might be getting close to the truth of the tale. Shoot straight, innovate &amp; never give up, VENI, VIDI, VICI, Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger www.fastlarrypool.com (http://www.fastlarrypool.com)

03-03-2003, 01:24 PM
Am I over reacting, why yes, Everything I say or do, somebody has an issue with, &amp; then posts a reply like you did, when you said I was full of s*** &lt;---Larry

Nowhere did i say you were full of [censored]. I asked if it would make you feel better if i thought Fats was as full of it AS THE GUY WHO TOLD YOU THE STORY. No where did i say you were full of it.
And thanks for the offer of appointing me grand exaulted master story teller of the board but the job probably dont pay enough, but if you send me a check for $19.95 i will type a few storys out for you personally and even throw in a photo of a crap game that Nick the Greek played on.
Just kidding ya Larry, dont go into orbit.
Persoanlly i think as i said before you read way more into it than what i wrote. Youre too paranoid and take everything way too deep if you ask me.
Now thats all i got to say about this subject and i shouldnt have even had to say this much.
Enjoy the day.

03-03-2003, 06:58 PM
Dear Hopster, you are right, I do need to chill, sorry, here we go again, so many words or actions that are not meant in a certain, get taken in a way they are not intended. The good news is I have chilled, I got a refill finally for my crazy medicine. Regards, Fast Larry
www.fastlarrypool.com (http://www.fastlarrypool.com) Come see me &amp; Wonder Dog take on all challengers at the Hopkins Expo, play me, dont mess with the Dog, he will kick your A**. Shoot straight, innovate, no fear, and never give up. VENI, VIDI, VICI

03-03-2003, 07:05 PM
Im glad we could put this stuff behind us, i really am.
Now i told you in the e mail that i sent you a while ago i was definetly going to come see you at the expo only now i am going to bring you a nice bottle of white wine just so i can bust your B#### a little. lol
Stay well and take care Larry, see ya in july.

03-03-2003, 07:17 PM
Holy cow Hopster, I am a lover, not a fighter, you want to fight, take on Wonder Dog, he is undefeated. I have had 3 fights in pool halls, lost all 3 of them, so I am 0-3, not a very good record. You want to bring a bottle of wine to my booth at the Hopkins, tell you what, bring it cold, forget that white crap, bring that for you, but bring me a nice but cheap cabernet sauvignon or a Merlot red, it can be top of the barrel crap, as long as it has a cork, I will drink it &amp; pay you for the bottle. I'll drink with you, no problem, but I have firm rules, my only vice is I do drink a little, modertely, never have a drink before 5pm, &amp; I dont drink when I work, so it has to be after the exhibitions. Wonder Dont does not drink, he is a trained athlete &amp; must be on his toes at all times, but that boy loves to eat, bring him half of a hot dog, he will follow you home. Dont mess with Wonder Dog, he takes no prisioners. Best Wishes, Fast Larry