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Ralph S.
03-02-2003, 06:45 PM
During my lesson with Scott Friday, we discovered that I have a visual perception problem. The problem mainly consists of not seeing exactly dead center of something, in this case an object ball. I tend to favor the right side slightly more when looking at center of a ball. This seems to be a little different than left or right eye dominance, which has been mentioned in other posts already. Have any of you encountered a problem of this nature and if so be able to expound on this some for me? Any help or input is appreciated. I dont seem to have a problem with making the object ball I am looking at, but just judging dead center like when hitting into a diamond on the rail.

Popcorn
03-02-2003, 07:08 PM
I have that problem with my wife. I can see she is not hitting the cueball where she thinks she is, but she does not seem to know it. Then she shoot and misses just as I could see she was going to miss. I don't know what to do to correct it. It is a perception problem and how do you get someone to see it differently. She sees what she sees. It is frustrating, I know when she is going to miss. She is a good player but at times seems to have this problem on certain shots.

Ralph S.
03-02-2003, 07:30 PM
Hey Popcorn, my problem is not hitting center of cb but more of like playing tangent line or the imaginary lines when using the diamond system. I tend to not see that line, its not so much the center of the ball.

caedos
03-02-2003, 10:35 PM
Are you saying that you perceive what appears to be 'center' or a straight line to a point, and the cue ball is usually sent to the right of the point you originally thought you were shooting towards?

Oz

bluewolf
03-03-2003, 06:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote caedos:</font><hr> Are you saying that you perceive what appears to be 'center' or a straight line to a point, and the cue ball is usually sent to the right of the point you originally thought you were shooting towards?

Oz <hr /></blockquote>

It would be interesting to hear from left handed, left eye dominance folks. My husband has this same problem and he is very strongly right eyed dominant. As for myself, I am nearly equal dominant in both eyes. I do not hold a candle to him in shooting skills but do see the true center.

Laura

Mike H
03-03-2003, 08:14 AM
I was having a similar problem, except it was giving me a lot of trouble with the pocketing of object balls. I went to a local instructor, who pointed this problem out and then figured out to which side I was having the perception problem. After we figured that out, I had to make some changes to my stance so my head could be in a better position over the cue. This compensation fixed the problem. Most of the info used to make this correction is found in Rich Kranicki's "Answers to a Pool Player's Prayers." To be honest, I think the book reads like stereo instructions, but the info in there is worth it if you can open yourself to his ideas and get past the slow pace of the book.

Ralph S.
03-03-2003, 10:02 AM
More or less, that is pretty close to the problem I am having. If Scott reads this, he may be able to explain it a little more clearly. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Gayle in MD
03-03-2003, 11:48 AM
Hi Ralph,
Have you ever seen those cue balls with the verticle and horizontal lines? I can't remember the name of the company that makes them, but dead center is marked, and also there is a circle which helps to determine where to hit the ball for draw shots, high and low left and right etc.

You could probably find it at any billiards supply place, or maybe on the net. If you practiced with it some, It might help you. They don't cost much either.

Also, Scott pointed out to me during my last lesson that a piece of chalk is exactly half as high as the cue ball, which gies you alteaast the horizontal center to check on during practice sessions.

Just a suggestion,

Regards,
Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ralph S.
03-03-2003, 01:52 PM
The problem isnt with seeing center ball but not seeing dead center when relating to a tangent line for example. Most notably when shooting banks and trying to hit dead center on a diamond per say.

Alfie
03-03-2003, 02:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr> The problem isnt with seeing center ball but not seeing dead center when relating to a tangent line for example. Most notably when shooting banks and trying to hit dead center on a diamond per say. <hr /></blockquote>Ralph, your description is very, very murky. I know *you* know what you're saying. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Is it that you over cut a shot to one side and undercut that same angled shot to the other?

caedos
03-03-2003, 10:21 PM
More info please! What is hitting 'dead center on a diamond'. The diamonds are references to points on the bed of the table as the ball strikes the rail. The only way to shoot straight at a diamond and contact the point it represents is to shoot straight into the rail at the diamond. For banking purposes this is nearly useless as the return angle simply puts the ball into the rail at the diamond on the other side of the table. Also, which Tangent line(s) are you referring to? CB/OB, OB/OB, CB/rail, OB/rail...?????
If I read you correctly, you see center ball fine (on both the CB and OB). Once we establish which Tangent Line you are referring to, my question moves to needing to know what you mean by 'dead center when relating to a tangent line'. In cases where balls are of equal mass, it is the contact edge that follows the Tangent Line... not the center.

I guess I don't understand the language you are using for something.

Oz

03-03-2003, 10:33 PM
Let me get this straight, you go to a teacher &amp; take a lesson and come out of there with your problem not fixed, so you now in confusion go to the board for answers. Sir, has it occured to you, when you go to a teacher, he finds &amp; fixes all of your problems, and if he does not, may I suggest you go find a teacher that can do this. Maybe the problem is not you, has that thought occured to you. Fast Larry

Gayle in MD
03-04-2003, 06:59 AM
You might want to try this,....cut a circle out of white paper the same diameter as the cue ball to represent a ghost ball. With a felt pen, draw a center ball horizontal line, and a center ball verticle line, like cross hairs. Then you can place this circle in front of or next to anything where you are trying to locate the tangent line just by laying it down on the table, when you're practicing. It is a great visual aid for training your eyes to find the tangent line, and it's free, lol.

Hope this helps, /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ralph S.
03-04-2003, 07:02 AM
Fast Larry, the problem is not the teacher. In fact the teacher is who recognized the problem and I am working on trying to correct it. Alfie said it in better words than myself. Sorry I wasnt able to put in writing exactly what I wanted to say. In fact the instructor that is currently working with me has helped me immensly. The problem lies with hitting exactly dead center on ob to make it travel a desired line. Maybe this will be a little clearer. I do appologize for not being the best with words and describing this particular kind of problem.

griffith_d
03-04-2003, 07:10 AM
I have a vision problem,...it is bad and getting worse. I have tried contacts, cannot wear them, glasses seem to get into the way, and now I have a tendency to cut the ball too much,...I am trying to correct it now.

Griff

Scott Lee
03-04-2003, 10:10 AM
I have run across this problem with many students around the country, over the years. The problem is this: the student is lining up the shot (easiest to do this with a short, straight in stop shot), and by looking at their line of aim from across the table, I can see that the cuestick is not parallel with the line of aim. Consequently, I can see that the student is not going to hit the OB in the EXACT correct place, and the stop shot will likely not occur...meaning that the CB will travel some along the tangent line (this may only be an inch or it may be a foot or more, depending on the speed of the shot). The problem Ralph is describing is not related to being able to hit the CB in the center...it is with how the aim is perceived! In a straight in stop shot, there should be NO tangent line, and the CB should stop dead, behind the contact point with the OB. This is a perceptual problem. It may or may not be related to "vision". I have seen students with perfect vision that just did not "see" the straight line of the shot, in relation to the cuestick. Occasionally, the student will make a correction as they stroke through the CB, resulting in the appropriate action (a perfect stop shot), but usually, they hit the shot and it either misses the pocket slightly (because they "cut" the OB when they didn't mean to), or the CB doesn't do what is expected.
I have helped many students to overcome this "perceptual" problem, by compensating with their aim. As an example, if you are consistently overcutting a particular shot, I would suggest to aim to cut it slightly the other direction. These are VERY slight adjustments (most people make GIANT adjustments) in aiming. After the student has made the shot by adjusting his/her aim a hair, their MIND usually makes the mental adjustment, and they begin to "SEE" the shot line up as it is supposed to be. This is what I suggested to Ralph, and I believe it will help him. The most difficult thing to do, is resist going back to the "old, comfortable way", while trying to replace a technique or idea, with an alternate way of doing it or looking at it. Most people will return to their "comfort level" after missing just so many times, trying to imprint a new concept or technique. If you can resist temptation, and stick with the new way, it will replace the "old" and become the way you naturally shoot. Hope this helps.

Popcorn, I suggest this for your wife...have her aim the shot slightly off to the opposite direction (from the way she is PERCEIVING it). For example, line up a straight in shot, that is less than 2-3 feet between CB &amp; OB. Have her shoot. If the OB is being overcut slightly, have her aim to overcut it the other direction, the same amount. Tell her to "see" the straight line, and deliberately aim a "hair" off to the opposite side of the pocket! If she can do this successfully several times in a row on the same shot, she should begin to see how her perception of aim is skewed slightly, and begin to compensate for it. Usually, the brain will take this information and process it into a new pattern of how to "aim" correctly.

Scott Lee

heater451
03-04-2003, 11:02 AM
How do you (Ralph) address the shot with the cue, when taking your stance?

I know it may call for a change in habit, but it may help to **try** this:

1) (Standing up) Ascertain you OB aimpoint, and imagine the line from the CB to the OB.

2) Approaching the table, hold your cue in line with the aimline, about 45-degrees angled towards the table. (The idea is to get the cue in the same vertical plane as the aimline.)

3) Level the cue into the path of the aimline, and assume your stance and bridging around the cue--try not to disturb the cue to the left or right.

4) Take your practice strokes, and take the shot.


The concept here is to get the cue in line with the aimline, in the vertical plane, where it's easier to compare. (The aimline is horizontal on the table, but it becomes angled vertically to your standing line-of-sight--as you 'see' it.) Then, when the cue is brought to "shot-level", it is rotated/angled down, within the same plane, and should remain 'on-target', in line with the aimline.


This may still be confusing--I will try to post a diagram sometime later. Also, I realize that I am trying to help, without having a lot of detail in how you shoot, but hey, that's what we're here for. . . . /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif



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