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Yuppie
03-05-2003, 11:24 AM
I've been checking the board for a week or so now and really enjoy the discussions and tips that are exchanged here. Thanx all for participating.

My first question is regarding straight pool or 14.1. There's a ton of talk about 9-ball and 8-ball, but not much about straight pool. I'm learning from a local pro at the pool hall I frequent and his game is one-pocket, but rants that straight pool is the best game. I love the romance of pool and just making balls, so I would have to agree. Any agree/disagree?

Next question: tips for the break? He's showed me this one (I believe it's in the Mosconi book) where the cb is about 5-6 inches from the rail on the headstring and you cut thin the right corner ball. top right english? top left?

Any other thoughts anyone would like to share about the game, feel free. I want to know what others think.

Perk
03-05-2003, 11:32 AM
I enjoy the game of straight pool, but rarely get an opportunity to play (I only play it on 9' tables). I think it helps cause even when practising, you can add your own pressure without bringing in an opponent.

The break you are talking about is a fairly common one.
START(
%AN7O5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pg9H6%WD8J1%XJ0K9%Y I2D3%ZC6I5
%[r5U7%\I9C6%]K5L0%^f6H5%eC0a2
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I tried to diagram the cueball route. The goal is to have the cue ball come to rest as close as possible to the rail upon return, and the back balls on the rack will roll out to the rail and return back into the rack. It can be a very easy break if practised enough.

Hopster
03-05-2003, 12:37 PM
Pick up the book Play your best straight pool by Phil Capelle. Tons of break shots and good info on the game in there. You can probably get it on amazon.

smfsrca
03-05-2003, 12:54 PM
Heres a couple of break shots you can have fun with.

"Bank corner ball into the head rail pocket."
START(
%AN7O5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Ph3H8%UL2L2%Vg7H9%W r0D2%XC3L6
%]D1L9%^I7L9
)END

"Bank head ball 2 rails into the side pocket.
START(
%AN7O5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Ph3H8%UD5K1%Vg7H9%W r4T5%Xc0Z6
%]b2Z8%^O5O9%_I0L8%`F2L0%aC2K2%b\1C8%cf9K4%ds1S5
)END

NBC-BOB
03-05-2003, 01:16 PM
My love for straight pool,started 40 yrs ago and to me it's for the connoisseur of the game.The only games I like are 14-1 and one pocket.It takes a while to learn the patterns and no two players do it the same way,except maybe on certain key balls for opening up clusters.I wonder if you ever watched any pro's play 14-1 ? If you haven't give it a try if possible, and you to may get hooked on a great game.
I think 14-1 is a great way for players to learn cue ball control and finesse.On the other side I've seen some pretty good one pocket players that can't mentally can't get into 14-1.I guess it's good to try all games,even trick shots,because they will all add to your knowledge base and help to make you a well rounded player. Enjoy 14-1

L.S. Dennis
03-05-2003, 05:02 PM
Nothing is more beautiful to watch than to see great straight pool player work their patterns and running lots of balls. It was the first game I ever learned to play and is still my favorite!

Accutstats has a couple of Jim Rempe tapes entitled: How to run a rack in straight pool, and how to run 100 balls. They're both good instructional tapes for someone who wants to learn what the game is about.

Rod
03-05-2003, 05:31 PM
Straight Pool is a great game. It was the game the pro's played for championship titles as opposed to 9 ball. Your doing yourself and game favor to learn 14-1. Rotation also is a good game to play or practice.

The 14-1 break, the 10 and three go to the rail and come back very close to there starting point. It's hit a little above lag speed.
START(
%AN7O5%BL7P8%CJ5R0%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JJ4L9
%KJ4P7%LJ3N1%MK6M6%NJ4O3%OK6Q3%Ph4H7%Ul4Z9%VH3D1%W E1H5%XJ4K6
%YG7D4%ZD2G4%eC4a0%_r5X2%`o9Y4%al9Z9
)END

Rod

arn3
03-05-2003, 06:29 PM
perk, actually the ideal break would be to have to cb hit your first two rails and then the long rail on the left FIRST. like rod's diagram. that way, the cb dies off that rail and settles on the back rail. in your diagram the cb still has enough spin to bounce off the bottom rail and leave the player with room for the cb.

Perk
03-06-2003, 06:56 AM
Yea, I agree ideally that hitting the long rail is what alot generally do. For me, its easier to have it come right down to near the rail/pocket and still have the desired recluster of the 3 balls effected by the contact.

03-06-2003, 07:17 AM
I love straight pool too, but am complete utter rubbish (yet to crack the 50 hi run) at it. But playing it calms down my nineball a lot. It's a good practice game, but in competition it can be deadly.

Any way:
Get some accu-stats tapes!

For example:
Sigel 1992 150&out against Zuglan or Sigel 150 run against Rempe 1989... I love to watch this guy! The accu-stats catalogue states the high runs, I have a few with 100 runs. They really inspire me!

And I love this article about him and the 150&out:
http://new.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,829,00.html

Yuppie
03-06-2003, 08:59 AM
weelie - That was a great article. Thank you for posting the link.

And thanks for the break shot ideas. I'll have to give them a try next time I'm at the hall.

Wally_in_Cincy
03-06-2003, 09:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Yuppie:</font><hr> I've been checking the board for a week or so now and really enjoy the discussions and tips that are exchanged here. Thanx all for participating.

My first question is regarding straight pool or 14.1. There's a ton of talk about 9-ball and 8-ball, but not much about straight pool. I'm learning from a local pro at the pool hall I frequent and his game is one-pocket, but rants that straight pool is the best game. I love the romance of pool and just making balls, so I would have to agree. Any agree/disagree?

<font color="blue">That's my favorite game. I'm lucky in that we have a good straight pool league here (Cincinnati Straight Pool League, 36 players usually)

You say he's a OP player. Do you two play a lot of 14.1?
</font color>

Next question: tips for the break? He's showed me this one (I believe it's in the Mosconi book) where the cb is about 5-6 inches from the rail on the headstring and you cut thin the right corner ball. top right english? top left?

Any other thoughts anyone would like to share about the game, feel free. I want to know what others think. <hr /></blockquote>

Yuppie
03-06-2003, 10:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> You say he's a OP player. Do you two play a lot of 14.1?
</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

He and I don't actually play. But I play with a friend and often times Bob (the local pro) will stand back and coach us, telling us what shots to take, how to take them, and how to run the 3 free balls and set up for the break shot and such. He's great! But sometimes the pressure to perform is huge when he's helping. I'd hate for him to be coaching us and feel like he's wasting his time because we miss shots that he points out.

I've never actually seen him play a game, but I've seen him take some amazing shots and I've seen him run out a table in 2 minutes.

START(
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%UI0I7%VJ4N6%WD7Z0%Xe0S7%YH1U2%ZC6Y7%[J0O6%\H9T4%]F2E1%^H4H3
)END

The shot may not be impressive to some, but I thought it was great. He has excellent cb control too. From just about anywhere I've seen him make a shot and stop the ball right where he says he will. The guy is tops in my book.

Wally_in_Cincy
03-06-2003, 11:29 AM
The coaching you get from your house pro is probably better than any book. But if you're really serious about learning 14.1, get 3 books:

Advanced Pool by George Fels
The Straight Pool Bible by Arthur Cranfield and Laurence Moy
Play Your Best Sraight Pool by Phil Capelle

and 2 videos:

"How to Run a Rack in Straight Pool" by Jim Rempe
"How to Run a Hundred Balls" by Jim Rempe

That'll get ya' started /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

griffith_d
03-06-2003, 12:23 PM
I am just learning and have only run the 15 balls and have not left the last ball and tried breaking yet. That is next,...it almost like, "production pool" and really makes you think. It is good practice for 9 ball and calms me down. I tend to start shooting hard when it comes to 9 ball, trying to get all the way around the table to the next shot.

I cannot wait to run more than one game,...

Griff

03-06-2003, 06:40 PM
First let me say there is nobody on earth who loves l4.l as a game better than me. I love 9 ball, as a fast game to gamble on, but this was never intended to be a championship game or determine who the best player was, because of the luck factor that make it a gambling game.

I agree with every word, every post. You take a player who plays l4.l &amp; 8 ball both every day, and a player who only plays 8 ball, both are exact equal skills, now play 8 ball &amp; the l4.l guy wins every time.

Did you ever watch the old startrek on TV, ever week, Dr McCoy would come on &amp; they would go down to a new planet, where Kirk would lay the local Princess, and lose one of his men. Mc Coy would say, he's dead Jim. You are all going to hate me for this, but on l4.l, he's dead Jim.

Why practice a dead game, l4.l is as dead as rotation, 3 cushion or english billiards, cribbage or a dozen other games gathering dust in the back of the BCA rules book.

The BCA killed l4.l, when they dropped out hosting the annual events in NYC because they were not making money on the event. He is dead, Jim....
Straight has always had it's base in the NE &amp; that area produced most of the old champions. In most of the USA, the game is totally unkown by the younger players coming up. As soon as the old farts like me die off, the game dies off with us, which won't be long.

A doctor hates telling his patient he only has 6 months to live, and I am that doctor here. The only hope for l4.l is the current powers who run pool, realize the Sardo rack has produced a sissy pansy break which has destroyed the entire reason to change over to it. l4.l has a couple of bad games on TV, low runs, bogged down to a safety match, &amp; bored everyone S***less. That problem can be edited out now, &amp; just show the century run, &amp; edit out the crap or the lousy runs. In snooker, nothing is more thrilling to see a century run, or a 127, and when you air only the best games, which is what they do, the product is out standing. There are some stinker games that bog down where the high run is 12 &amp; you cant stand watching it. They were running these old l4.l matches live, which was double dumb, I would never run any pool match live, ever.

Live sucks, live is terrifying, live you can really screw the pooch if you're not careful. I've done 2 live gigs for Hollywood, I don't think I could now handle another one, they gave me nightmares.

Maybe somebody will wake up &amp; realize the 9 ball product they sell today sucks &amp; is boring everyone S***less. the problem is a lot of the players dont know they are being bored S***less until you point it out to them &amp; then then go yo, you are right. So what can they do about it, nothing.

I remember reading about the most famous gambler in the wild west, and the game was Faro. They asked him, don't you realize the game is fixed and there is no way to win. He answered yes, of course, but it's the only game in town. That is the exact situation that now occurs in 9 ball, it's the only game in town.

In golf, every time they have a match play event, a nobody knocks off the stars, and it is a disaster. Golf gave up matchups like we have in pool back in the late 50's, they found out that people will follow a star, and the problem we have in pool is we have no stars in the men's area, like we did years ago. golfers play the course, not each other, and who ever shoots the lowest score wins. They keep grouping the best scores together for 4 days, so then they produce some matchups at the end.

Pool could do the same thing by simply playing 250 points a day, for 4 days, a match to l000 points. Then you test endurance &amp; skill, &amp; the top players emerge from that the majority of the time, because then all luck is removed. You put Rempe on one table alone, Sigel on the table next to him alone, &amp; both play, with no safeties, going for every shot, safe play is banned, period.

The guy who get's to 1000 with the lowest innings, wins. You want to spice it up, get Loyds to back this, and they will, for the first player to beat Mosconis run of 526, a one million dollar bonus. You edit this, and only air the century runs, and the top 3 or 4 players who come down to the end, the rest you ignore just as golf does. If golf can sell this, Pool could.

There is the solution to pool, finally you get true equal opportunity, no more 9 ball BS luck, no more Sigel runs l50 &amp; out on Zuglan, that is BS, poor Zugaln did not get to shoot. Now nobody can run out on nobody, everyone has an equal chance, like in Golf. Tiger cant go out &amp; run the table &amp; they tell the rest of the field, sorry boys, you cant tee off, Tiger just ran out. There would be a riot if you did that, because it is stupid, and that same concept applies to pool. Copy golf, pool can be saved, and l4.l can be brought back.

I published this concept 8 years ago and was laughed out of town, what can I tell you, I have the answer to the damn problem, and nobody will listen to me. www.fastlarrypool.com (http://www.fastlarrypool.com) Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger. Shoot straight, innovate, no fear, Never give up, and just run out on the other guy like Mosconi did. VENI, VIDI, VICI....

arn3
03-07-2003, 06:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Perk:</font><hr> Yea, I agree ideally that hitting the long rail is what alot generally do. For me, its easier to have it come right down to near the rail/pocket and still have the desired recluster of the 3 balls effected by the contact.

<hr /></blockquote>

rarely do i ever see the break you seek. as with any random break, you never can break to get the corner balls to re-rackall the time. four or so balls scattering from the rack is the norm. therefore i prefer to lay the cb on the cushion. that is my goal.

one hazzard of the corner balls resetting is that, OFTEN, a corner ball will reset itself into a dead shot.

thepoolnerd
03-07-2003, 07:26 AM
You need to learn to bank the corner ball in the side from a full rack. It's in "Play your best straight pool". If you miss your break ball and can leave the cueball behind the rack you hit as much of the corner ball as you can. Running english (off the ball) if you're shooting from the corner and reverse if your shooting from the middle diamond and it should bank in the opposite side. Firm speed. Maybe a 35-45% shot. My high practice run had one of these in it. Good way to salvage a practice run. Never could muster the stones to try it in a match though.

L.S. Dennis
03-07-2003, 07:59 AM
Larry,

I find your ideas about 14.1 interesting, and the idea of eliminating the safety play in straight pool thought provoking to say the least! You make a good point about Tiger running out in golf and the other players not even being able to tee up. You're absolutely right, Sigel running 150 and out and his opponent not even having a chance to shoot isn't fair without a doubt.

As far as eliminating the safeties is concerned, also interesting. What happens if someone's caught behind the rack with absolutely nothing to shoot at? I assume that person would shoot into the rack and hope something he/she called goes?!

Anyway I like your ideas on this, and if it takes copying golf to make pool more palatble, so be it!

Regarding nine ball, it they would just adopt Grady's rules that would go a long way to purifying that game and take most of the luck out of it as well!

NBC-BOB
03-07-2003, 08:22 AM
Well Larry I have been playing 14-1 for many years, and fortunately living here in the NJ I've been able to watch and learn from some of the best.It's the only game I like besides one pocket.Your idea of no match play or no safeties sounds interesting. Although for me there's nothing I enjoy more then, watching 2 good players going head to head and throwing in some good safeties.But for an audience on tv with good editing and all it sounds like a good idea.That being said Larry I work for a major network and spoke to some people here years ago and they weren't interested at that time, unless there were big advertising dollars involved.With the networks all scrambling for the advertising dollars these days,in my opinon pool has no chance at all,of being on any network without the big bucks being there.So the next question Larry is do you have any ideas on how to improve pool's image? and get the big buck advertisers? Take Care Bob

Predator314
03-07-2003, 08:38 AM
I love me a good safety. I hate that 7-ball crap they play on TV now. You don't see too many safes in that game.

Wally_in_Cincy
03-07-2003, 09:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote arn3:</font><hr>
rarely do i ever see the break you seek. as with any random break, you never can break to get the corner balls to re-rackall the time. four or so balls scattering from the rack is the norm.

<font color="blue">I tend to disagree with this. I'm not really a real good 14.1 player but I can execute Perk's classic break shot close to 30% of the time. Of course I practice it. That helps. </font color>

therefore i prefer to lay the cb on the cushion. that is my goal.

one hazzard of the corner balls resetting is that, OFTEN, a corner ball will reset itself into a dead shot.

<font color="blue">Sometimes, but that's not a good reason to not use that break shot. It's the best option.</font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Hopster
03-07-2003, 12:23 PM
I remember reading about the most famous gambler in the wild west, and the game was Faro. They asked him, don't you realize the game is fixed and there is no way to win. He answered yes, of course, but it's the only game in town. &lt;--Larry

I had to laugh when i read this as an old timer taught me this game a few years ago and its really a great gambling game. Vegas got rid of it around 1974-75 or so. The house hold was almost nothing on it. We used to play a sort of version of it in brooklyn called ziganette. Fast game, not for the faint of heart.
Anyway i play 14.1 all the time, either with my wife or pop or sometimes one of the older guys from back east. I love this game as its the second game i ever learned, first being eight ball, naturally. Its what i practice when im alone also, put out that first break shot and make it and im dreaming of cracking that 30 ball high run of mine. lol
Anyway, i really find your idea very interesting Larry. Ive never heard that before, lowest innings would win. That sounds like a really great concept. Too bad no one listened to you. I think this would make players really play a great game, might increase the pressure on them too in a way.
Im really surprised that in almost 50 years no one has been able to crack 526 also, maybe its just too tiring or way too hard. What is it 37 1/2 racks ? Wow, what a number. But then again, no one thought anyone was ever going to break Roger Maris,s record either. Maybe one day, maybe.
Anyway, i like the idea Larry, keep trying to sell it, who knows, maybe one day, eh ?

arn3
03-07-2003, 09:55 PM
30% of the time is terrible in a game where one mistake can cost.

but i never said i DIDN'T use that break. it is the classic break that everyone tries for. what i did mean is that i want to make sure i lay that cb on the end rail, or near the corner pocket anyway. AND that when that break is executed well and the two corner balls reset, it happens quite frequently that they reset into a dead shot. in fact, i'd say that when the two balls reset, the first thing the breaker checks(with a lump in his throat) is to see if they set into a dead shot, and wipes the sweat off his brow if they didn't. it is a very common occurance.