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View Full Version : How to Tell if a Player is playing Under his Speed



bigbro6060
03-08-2003, 09:41 PM
guys (and gals), how do you tell if for whatever reason, someone is playing under their real speed ?

what tell tale signs do you look for ?

Steve Lipsky
03-08-2003, 10:28 PM
Good question, Bigbro. It's not simple things like playing with a strange bridge or with the opposite hand. Such actions will be discovered immediately, and the player might get away with stealing one set at most.

I look for a player who seems to miss a lot, but is always missing to the correct side. There are a lot of shots in 9-ball that are virtually risk-free, if missed correctly. Whether he's missing on purpose or not, if he's always leaving you safe (or at least bad) after a miss, he knows more than he's letting on.

Also, I'll look for the presence of an occasional advanced positional play. When there are obstructing balls in the way of a natural lane, and he does something to miss them, the fact that he's doing so is evidence of a stronger player. Along these lines, playing 4-rail shape is the smoking gun; lower-level shooters don't often see these plays, let alone execute them.

Remember, he's obviously not doing this all the time; to do so would represent his true speed. But if you catch it a few times (especially from, say, an 8 to a 9), you know something's probably up.

- Steve

03-09-2003, 12:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigbro6060:</font><hr> guys (and gals), how do you tell if for whatever reason, someone is playing under their real speed ?

what tell tale signs do you look for ?

<hr /></blockquote>


there's only one real good way to know.

take all your money out of your jeans. show it to him. shoot him for it. if he suddenly shoots like god and takes the money then he was sandbagging before.

then you know.

dan

Rod
03-09-2003, 02:05 AM
what if you only have 2 bucks? lol If there playing one hole you might not ever know. Plenty of room for stall there.

cheesemouse
03-09-2003, 08:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigbro6060:</font><hr> guys (and gals), how do you tell if for whatever reason, someone is playing under their real speed ?

what tell tale signs do you look for ?

<hr /></blockquote>

Even the best hustlers have a hard time disguising their natural rhytem in must win situations. It is difficult to intentionally play bad with a good rhytm or tempo. Like Steve said "look for advanced postion play in must win situations"......Keep your billfold in your pocket...LOL

wolfsburg2
03-09-2003, 08:43 AM
safety play on misses especially late in the game.

9 Ball Girl
03-09-2003, 08:58 AM
You also have the ones that constantly say how sucky they are before they even start to play you. It's like their bait to you and they want you to bite. It makes you wonder if they really are that sucky and if they are, why play for money. I think that's another sign to look out for too. JAT

Sid_Vicious
03-09-2003, 10:35 AM
Post deleted by Sid_Vicious

wolfsburg2
03-09-2003, 11:08 AM
"I do enjoy your posts and if you like sucky, I like it too "speaking of lines, that is a pretty bad one /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Popcorn
03-09-2003, 11:24 AM
Contrary to popular belief, you don't stall by looking like a spaz, or using an open hand bridge. You look just like you always do. Mostly you mess up position a little so it becomes difficult to get out, then maybe miss a miss-able shot. You like to leave the player shots where they can run balls, and maybe get out on their own or not, making it appear to be a closer contest. In 9-ball I like to leave an open table right away. I want the guy to run balls and hope he does not run out. Most weaker players are not run out players and will just sell out the game. You end up doing very little to win without showing much speed at all. Mainly they have themselves to blame for losing, that is the real goal. The thing about 9-ball though is, even with an average player you can only let him come to the table so many times. Giving even one extra inning more then you should, will make it a break even contest. Basically you just play your normal game, but not quite. If you are gambling, obviously the other player must be able to play a little or they would not be playing. You just want to squeeze a little more out of the guy by making him play a little longer, as well as not scaring off other potential players. Pretending you can't play all is stupid, it traps you. What if there is someone else you want to play, how can you shift gears and not look like you were stalling. You don't just stall to trap a weak player, It also attracts the predatory player. When the game is over and you have won, for sure a better player is going to ask you if you want to play some more, possible offering you weight. Some road players are ultra hustlers, they can beat the best players in most towns, but like to work their way up to them. Maybe staying in town for a few days and making money, before having to play the local champ. If you play the best player right off the bat, 1. he may beat you, there are a lot of good players around. 2. Win or lose you are done there. Having said all this, you can tell if someone can play, but it can be hard to tell just how good. The hand eye coordination is impossible to hide, same with the stroke, bridge, hand that grips the cue, even the way the player moves around the table. This is the case even in other circumstances. When a guy tells me he used to be a very good player, even if he can't make a ball you can tell if he once could play. How many times has someone told you how good they used to play, " I paid my way through collage playing pool." Then you look at him and he can't even chalk the cue. He can't fool you, you can tell he could never play.

Sid_Vicious
03-09-2003, 11:24 AM
It was kinda sucky huh ;-) sid~~~with a pic like 9BG's, ANYTHING is worth a try

wolfsburg2
03-09-2003, 11:38 AM
"How many times has someone told you how good they used to play, " I paid my way through collage playing pool." Then you look at him and he can't even chalk the cue. He can't fool you, you can tell he could never play. "

that absolutely kills me. "i used to be pretty good, i would play all the time but it's been years"

and you think to yourself things like: did you forget how to make a bridge, stroke a ball, draw a ball, rack, play any kind of position, use even a remote amount of ball speed? makes me /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

cheesemouse
03-09-2003, 12:19 PM
wolf,
Don't be too hard on these guys. They are just lonely and basically harmless and there is always the chance that one of them is that diamond in the rough just waiting for some youngster to tape his knowledge. I know what you mean though, it is pretty hard to fade but the path of least resistance normally is to just listen and nod because these guys are living in the past and they like it that way. They are all over the pool world; get use to it...fade it and just go on hitting balls.......I've taken lots of cold medicine today.....LLOL LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wolfsburg2
03-09-2003, 12:27 PM
since i like pool and take it pretty seriously, playing as much as possible to improve etc. i find it insulting when someone say something lik ethis, and proceeds to shoot like an absolute amateur. i am touchy with stuff like that though. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

03-09-2003, 12:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> You also have the ones that constantly say how sucky they are before they even start to play you. It's like their bait to you and they want you to bite. It makes you wonder if they really are that sucky and if they are, why play for money. I think that's another sign to look out for too. JAT <hr /></blockquote>
...and of course there's the classic "I haven't picked up a stick in a month."

wolfsburg2
03-09-2003, 01:16 PM
there is this guy who comes to a bar i used to frequent, and always tries to play for money. he is not a great player, position play is weak, etc. so one night i played him i ran up to the 8 on the break, and miseed a tough sho t on the eight leaving him a wide open table, he ran 6 then scratched leaving this shot, i walked to the table and shot right away, as this is a shot i practice, and i didn't see another way to do it

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http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

so i pocketed the eight ball, and he got angry accusing me of hustling(even though there was no money involved. he started commenting about my skill level blah blah. when he got up to the table 3 or 4 games later, he asked to play for money. my reply was that i don't like to play for money, cuz i don't think i am good enough. boy did that piss him off. now this kid is not a hustler, he asks everyone to play for money, and i have seen him shoot a bajillion times, and am never impressed.

my point i guess is that some people try to throw out that hustler vibe, even though they are not good enough to really hustle anyone