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03-10-2003, 11:31 PM
1. Is it legal to put an already pocketed ball on the table to see if a ball can be squeezed between two other balls? What if you have b.i.h. and use the cue ball?

2. 3 strikes, you're out! While playing a friend, he went for a full masse and missed completely with a tremendous thud on the slate. There's no rule about missing the CB is there?

Thanks.

Rod
03-10-2003, 11:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 ball junior:</font><hr> 1. Is it legal to put an already pocketed ball on the table to see if a ball can be squeezed between two other balls? What if you have b.i.h. and use the cue ball?

No to both.


2. 3 strikes, you're out! While playing a friend, he went for a full masse and missed completely with a tremendous thud on the slate. There's no rule about missing the CB is there?

Well it is a foul or should be as I recall on a masse. I'll recheck the rules or you can. www.bca-pool.com (http://www.bca-pool.com)

Thanks. <hr /></blockquote>

03-11-2003, 12:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 ball junior:</font><hr> 1. Is it legal to put an already pocketed ball on the table to see if a ball can be squeezed between two other balls? What if you have b.i.h. and use the cue ball?

No to both.


2. 3 strikes, you're out! While playing a friend, he went for a full masse and missed completely with a tremendous thud on the slate. There's no rule about missing the CB is there?

Well it is a foul or should be as I recall on a masse. I'll recheck the rules or you can. www.bca-pool.com (http://www.bca-pool.com)

.................................................. .........


right on #1 rod, but on #2, as long as he didn't touch the c.b. and nothing moved then nothing happened-no foul. i'll bet you're remembering the part of the jump and masse' rule that says, contrary to cue balls only rule, if you're trying a jump or masse' and one of the object balls in the area moves, regardless if it got hit with the cuestick or the wind or vibration from table or poltergeist, it's a foul. here, he didn't have anything actually move.

dan

Rod
03-11-2003, 12:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
right on #1 rod, but on #2, as long as he didn't touch the c.b. and nothing moved then nothing happened-no foul. i'll bet you're remembering the part of the jump and masse' rule that says, contrary to cue balls only rule, if you're trying a jump or masse' and one of the object balls in the area moves, regardless if it got hit with the cuestick or the wind or vibration from table or poltergeist, it's a foul. here, he didn't have anything actually move.

dan <hr /></blockquote>

Well I looked because I thought it was there. I may have been confused with the jump shot rule. Any miscue is a foul. Granted it was not a miscue. But speaking of vibration any near balls could move a touch. On the extreme end it could be covered by patting or bumping the table. There should be a rule on a missed c/b on a masse because of the possibility of moving a ball. Most rooms have a rule not to masse and this is a good example of why. Actually the guy/gal should be put in the town square and flogged. LOL well I'd give the chick a break if she was cute! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rod

SPetty
03-11-2003, 09:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 ball junior:</font><hr> 1. Is it legal to put an already pocketed ball on the table to see if a ball can be squeezed between two other balls? What if you have b.i.h. and use the cue ball?<hr /></blockquote>Well, I know I'm putting my pride and ego on the line when I think I disagree with the answers from two of the top-most rules answerers on the board, but I disagree with the answer that using the cue ball to see if a ball can be squeezed through a gap when you have ball in hand is a foul.

If you have ball in hand and choose to place the cue ball in one place and then change your mind and move the cue ball to elsewhere, that's not a foul. So, if you choose to put that cue ball in that tiny space then change your mind and move the cue ball to another place, that's not a foul.

Here's the germane rules: <blockquote><font class="small">Quote BCA rules:</font><hr>3.42 DEVICES
Players are not allowed to use a ball, the triangle or any other width-measuring device to see if the cue ball or an object ball would travel through a gap, etc. Only the cue stick may be used as an aid to judge gaps or as an aid to aligning a shot., so long as the cue is held by the hand. To do so otherwise is a foul and unsportsmanlike conduct. (Also see Rules 1.3, 1.4 and 2.15)

1.3 USE OF EQUIPMENT
Players may not use equipment or accessory items for purposes or in a manner other than those for which the items were intended (refer to rules 3.42 and 3.43). For example, powder containers, chalk cubes, etc., may not be used to prop up a mechanical bridge (or natural hand bridge); no more than two mechanical bridges may be used at one time, nor may they be used to support anything other than the cue shaft. Extra or out-of-play balls may not be used by players to check clearance or for any other reason (except to lag for break); the triangle may be employed to ascertain whether a ball is in the rack when a match is unofficiated and the table has not been pencil marked around the triangle area. (Also see Rule 2.3)<hr /></blockquote>The first rule condenses to "Players are not allowed to use a ball ... to see if the cue ball ... would travel through a gap". This certainly covers grabbing a ball out of a pocket and using it, but I believe that if you have cue ball in hand, you can use the cue ball.

The second rule condenses to "Extra or out-of-play balls may not be used by players to check clearance...". The cue ball in this case is in play and is not extra.

Does anybody agree that when you have cue ball in hand, you can put it anywhere on the table and then pick it up and move it to a different place on the table? I think that's the answer that covers this part of the question.

SPetty~~~waiting for the fire-tipped arrows...

Paul_Mon
03-11-2003, 09:47 AM
.

eg8r
03-11-2003, 09:53 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I know I'm putting my pride and ego on the line when I think I disagree with the answers from two of the top-most rules answerers on the board, but I disagree with the answer that using the cue ball to see if a ball can be squeezed through a gap when you have ball in hand is a foul.

If you have ball in hand and choose to place the cue ball in one place and then change your mind and move the cue ball to elsewhere, that's not a foul. So, if you choose to put that cue ball in that tiny space then change your mind and move the cue ball to another place, that's not a foul.
<hr /></blockquote> SPetty, I don't think what you are saying is in line with the questions. What you did say was correct, you can put the cue ball where ever you want, and if that is not deemed a good spot, then go ahead and move, no problem. I do think it is wrong to use it as a measuring device when you have no intention of leaving the cue ball there. This is also in the same category as casually leaving a piece of chalk in line with where you want to aim. Surely you have the right to leave the chalk where ever you want to, but it is not something you do on purpose.

I think it is wrong to use the cue ball or pulling up a pocketed ball and using it as a measuring tool.

eg8r

Ken
03-11-2003, 10:03 AM
This question has come up in the past and I think it was decided that if it is your intent to use the cue ball as a measuring device then you have committed an illegal act. A ref. would have to make a determination as to your intent.
KenCT

03-11-2003, 10:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr>Does anybody agree that when you have cue ball in hand, you can put it anywhere on the table and then pick it up and move it to a different place on the table? I think that's the answer that covers this part of the question.

SPetty~~~waiting for the fire-tipped arrows...
<hr /></blockquote>

well, maybe if'n i close one eye and stand on one leg and lean way over...


nah! it goes to intent. is you intenden to measure or is you intenden to actually shoot that silly-ass shot? there are some interesting things you can do to get around the rules if you're just willing to lie your ass-off.

the rule is clear, you can't use the ball to measure. you know if'n that's what you're really doin and the pool god will get you for it later.

(by the way, this is supposed to be funny presentation for the purpose of impact, not insulting. i know you would never actually do something lower'n a snakes butt in a wheel rut. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)


dan...honestly, i wasn't measurin, it's just that there was a bug there &amp; i was tryin to squarsh it.

Rod
03-11-2003, 12:54 PM
Nope no fire-tipped arrows here. The points on my arows are those little Hershey kisses. LOL

[ QUOTE ]
If you have ball in hand and choose to place the cue ball in one place and then change your mind and move the cue ball to elsewhere, that's not a foul.

True


So, if you choose to put that cue ball in that tiny space then change your mind and move the cue ball to another place, that's not a foul.

<hr /></blockquote>

This reminds me of the movie My Cousin Vinny.

Vinny: I object to this witness being called at this time. We've been given no prior notice he'd testify. No discovery of any tests he's conducted or reports he's prepared. And as the court is aware, the defense is entitled to advance notice of any witness who will testify; particularly those who will give scientific evidence, so that we may properly prepare for cross-examination. As well as give the defense an opportunity to have the witnesses reports reviewed by a defense expert, who might then be in a position to contradict the verocity ot his conclusions.

Judge: Mr. Gambini? (Insert SPetty here)

SPetty: Yes sir?

Judge: That is a lucid, intelligent, well-thought out objection.

SPetty: Thank you, your honor

Judge: Overruled. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif


LOL, ok if you say so but don't try that in Vegas! I liked the answers from Dan and Ken. What cha think now? /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

SPetty
03-11-2003, 03:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Nope no fire-tipped arrows here. The points on my arrows are those little Hershey kisses. LOL

...

Whatcha think now? <hr /></blockquote>I think I'm liking getting poked by your little Hershey kisses! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

eg8r
03-12-2003, 11:19 AM
I agree.

eg8r

eg8r
03-12-2003, 11:22 AM
Funny post houstondan.

[ QUOTE ]
i was tryin to squarsh it. <hr /></blockquote> As you all know, I am not from Texas, so I get a little flack about pronunciation. I was just wondering if this pronunciation of squash is the same as warsh for wash. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Just fooling around.

eg8r

03-12-2003, 01:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Funny post houstondan.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
i was tryin to squarsh it. <hr /></blockquote> As you all know, I am not from Texas, so I get a little flack about pronunciation. I was just wondering if this pronunciation of squash is the same as warsh for wash. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Just fooling around.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

actually, i think i got "squarsh" from iowa where i was once a young child. now i am an old child.

dan...sun's shinin...bikeride time!!!