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bluewolf
03-11-2003, 06:19 AM
I was having a problem with especially the long cuts which were out from the pocket and ocasionally with the long straighins too.

I noticed this. I was aligned correct and my aim was correct. My stroke was straight during the preshot. Scott taught a pause at the cb before the final stroke. Randy g taught a set (slt pause) at the cb and a pause at the backswing before the final stroke and follow. I noticed that allison fisher has a long back pause.

Being a diligent student I have been practicing the way I was taught.

On the last stroke and follow, my stroke arm was turning in and back out to the right, imparting right english on the cb resulting in a miss.

When I took out both pauses and just went 1,2,3 pop the shots started going in. I think that when my muscles stop is when I tremor. I still feel bad about not being about to be successful in the method I was taught.

So my question is - Is it bad to shoot without a pause?
Also, what do the rest of you do in your stroke relating to a pause?

Laura

nAz
03-11-2003, 06:32 AM
How can not pausing on the last stroke before a shot be bad if you are popping the shots? I dont believe its a bad thing, if it works for that particular type of shot then stick with it, if puasing on a draw shot works then stick with that on that shot.
I tend to just shoot my shots after 4-5 strokes on long shots and i also pause on very close shots and stop shots... hey what ever works best /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

mark wilson
03-11-2003, 07:27 AM
Laura, The pause is used to allow for an eye shift examination and along with a final check a mental committment to the shot stroke execution. The pause also serves to slow down any hurried or jerky stroke deliveries that lend themselves to inaccuracy. That being said shooting without a pause is not the end of the world, but you need to work on maintaining a consistent stroke pattern. Most top players are not orthodox because they learned from practice without great training techniques offered from good coaches. The fact that you can make a quality stroke without a pause leads me to believe that with care you could learn to also use the pause and while not absolutely neccessary the help with timing and rhythm gained would be worth a substantial investment in effort for anyone that would desire excellence.

randyg
03-11-2003, 07:51 AM
All players "pause" on every shot. Some are just more noticeable than others. Mark said it best, the "pause" stops most players from jerking their cue out of line on the forward swing....randyg

bluewolf
03-11-2003, 09:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr> All players "pause" on every shot. Some are just more noticeable than others. Mark said it best, the "pause" stops most players from jerking their cue out of line on the forward swing....randyg <hr /></blockquote>

Maybe it is the long pause that gets to me. I have a slight pause in each preshot stroke at the cb but if I try to make a longer pause right before my last swing, my arm does a tremor thing and goes back crooked. On the backswing, I do a miniscule pause to change muscle groups on each preshot stroke. If I try to do a longer one at the back of the last backswing, I think I tend to get a muscle involved which also makes it crooked.

Laura

Paul_Mon
03-11-2003, 10:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr> All players "pause" on every shot. Some are just more noticeable than others. Mark said it best, the "pause" stops most players from jerking their cue out of line on the forward swing....randyg <hr /></blockquote>

Maybe it is the long pause that gets to me. I have a slight pause in each preshot stroke at the cb but if I try to make a longer pause right before my last swing, my arm does a tremor thing and goes back crooked. On the backswing, I do a miniscule pause to change muscle groups on each preshot stroke. If I try to do a longer one at the back of the last backswing, I think I tend to get a muscle involved which also makes it crooked.

Laura
<hr /></blockquote>

Laura,
Maybe you need to "paws" longer. Sorry couldn't resist.

Paul Mon~~~trying to catch Fast Larry in Total Posts. What he's done in 3 weeks equals my entire year.

Deeman
03-11-2003, 11:41 AM
I see Mark Wilson generously answered Laura's question. It is very nice to see such a talented and friendly guy give us advice. I think we all know how much Mark has really added to the game and it is a pleasure to see him post here. I might add that Laura may want to hang with the pause a bit longer as it takes a while to become accustomed to any new stroke changes and you sometimes have to get worse before you get better.

Dee

Popcorn
03-11-2003, 12:59 PM
Everybody pauses, you have to because the cue is changing direction. How long is up to you. See what works. There should be at least a short deliberate pause, so as to not jerk the cue, just keep it smooth.

Rod
03-11-2003, 03:27 PM
Laura,
A friend of mine who is a very good player shakes a lot. He does have a very very slight pause. There is a certain rythm to his swing which is fairly quick at the c/b and on the forward swing. When that transition smooths out, it's never real smooth, he plays well. That goes with everyone however.

Mark described the pause and the reason for it's use. It might help to view it another way. What I see a lot of is stroke "over-run". That is to say the cue is brought back to quick and it is stopped by the forward motion. You won't see anything resembling a pause there. Keep in mind there is "under-run" where the stroke is stopped short of a full backswing without any noticable pause. Both can be for the same reason. Pause is the term to smooth that transition and prepare for the final delivery. If the cue is brought back to quickly, the term pause can become meaningless or difficult at best. That's to say rush back then come to a sudden stop and wait. See that doesn't make any sense as it does not blend with the tempo. The answer is bring the cue back slower and a term I use, finish your backswing. This has the cue slowing down at the end of your backswing. By doing this you create a slight pause. It varies on the individual how quick this transition really is but it does need to be there even if it is very slight. With this slow down at the end you help create a smooth forward transition.

With a smooth transition (ie your pause or slight pause or very slight pause) it promotes "gradual" forward acceleration, thats good. Opposed to a quick backswing and a jerk forwards, which is all to common. Most pool players alive, lol need to slow down both back and forward. If you do this (without any change in grip pressure from the address position) you won't really have to be overly concerned about follow thru because it happens naturally. It is a result of a well timed unhurried stroke.

You might want to lean towards your one two three in a "slower" version but on number 4 make it more deliberate at the c/b. Keep in mind the same applies here as on the backswing. That's why I put slower in parenthesis. It appears your not comfortable with static positions and I understand why.

You might find some help with a little different explanation. I've found different explanations to arrive at the same point is very usefull. Remember nothing is carved in stone but, there are guide lines. It is up to the individual to find what works best for them. If we all looked like mechanical robots this game would be really boring to watch.

To answer your question, yes I have a noticable pause at both ends, but I never feel static. It feels as if the cue is actually moving because it comes to a slow stop.

03-11-2003, 10:08 PM
Dear Blue wolf, it is not true, NOT every player has a pause, I dont. There may be a pause or two in my warm up strokes, but when I go in my final backswing &amp; forward move to strike the CB, I have no pause on my backswing.

I have no need for additional alignment, I had that on my hand plant. Once everything is aligned &amp; I get cpu go green, I can close my eyes &amp; make the shot, because I trust my stroke to repeat like it is a simple pendelum.

None of the greats had a pause, ie, Greenleaf, Hoppe, Mosconi. Buddy Hall who is a great player, champion &amp; now Hall of Famer has a distinctive pause. When a great player has success, others copy what he does, pool is generally learned by most as a monkey see monkey do thing.

I dont teach the pause, because with my method, it is irrevelant &amp; is just one extra wasted movement. If you come to me with a pause, I would not take it away, for I really don't think it really matters one way or the other. If you are not now playing with it, I would not add it.

If you want a pause, then pause before your final backswing, then go back &amp; forth in one fluid unbroken piece. In Golf, there have been a few guys who pause at the top, such as Bob Murphy, but no great champions ever did this, they favor a one piece back &amp; through seen &amp; felt as one movement, not as two pieces. 99% of all Golfers, don't use a pause in their swings. Once they are set, they just go. So much in pool can be learned from Golf, and this is one of them. Best Wishes,
"Fast Larry" Guninger, shoot straight, innovate, no fear &amp; never give up. VINI, VIDI, VICI....WWW.FASTLARRYPOOL.COM

03-11-2003, 10:37 PM
Mark, thanks for lending your expertise here. I remember watching Sigel at an exhibition in the early 90's. He was asked what he practiced to get ready for a tournament, and he said it was the rythm between his stroke and his eyes. On the backswing of practice strokes he looks at the object ball, and the cue ball on the forward. But on his last backswing, he simply keeps his eye on the object ball for the forward stroke. I think you defeat your purpose if you concentrate too hard on the mechanics of your stroke. Keep it smooth and deliberate and the pause (or no pause) should take care of itself.

TonyM
03-11-2003, 11:01 PM
Don't worry too much about it Blue. You need to tune your technique to work with what you have.

I know a player that has a very pronounced tremor. He is very successfult with no pause whatsoever, either at the cueball, or at the back of the backswing.

He just strokes rythmically back and forth until he feels ready to pull the trigger and then ..POW!... the ball goes in the hole.

He feels that this quick rythmic stroking helps keep his arm in the groove and minimizes the effects of the tremor.

If that works for you too than I'd say to stick with what works best.

Any good coach will always adjust their methods to suit the players physical limitations, or they aren't a good coach imo!

Tony
-keep stroking!

IMMSHARMA
03-12-2003, 01:42 AM
Ofcourse we don't need to pause for any additional alignment.
But we certainly need to pause fora different purpose.Here,at the time we pause, we need to allow our mind to complete a CERTAIN GEOMETRIC ROUTINE without which the shot is bound to fail.

bigbro6060
03-12-2003, 01:51 AM
I don't like to pause too long, my pause is very short but it is there

too much of a pause allows for thoughts to enter your head, not a good thing!

Vapros
03-12-2003, 11:06 AM
I play with a pronounced pause at the top of the take-away. As far as I'm concerned, that's where the stroke begins. Everything prior to that is just getting ready. Maybe it's because I have to be very careful with my take-away, or it's likely to be crooked, but it makes sense to me.

How about some comments on this concept?

bluewolf
03-12-2003, 11:39 AM
Rod,

Thanks a lot. After the first posts on this, I got ww to look at my stroke. He said I did have a pause but it wasnt a lengthy pause like previous instructors showed me.Randy did say, if I remember correctly that he was teaching the long pause but that not everybody paused that long. Scott said on the cb pause to ask 3 questions.

Here is what I am doing.

There is nothing about my stroke that is rushed. I have a very loose grip and very slow preshot and follow. The follow is occasionally a little quicker but not much because I do not hit harder than 'lag'speed.I only hit harder on the break.

I have a very slight pause at the cb on every preshot.The pause is just long enuff for me to see that I am aiming the cue where I want it. The last preshot before the final stroke has the same pause as the other preshots. The purpose of these slight pauses is to be sure that I am hitting the cb where I want to hit it. The pause at the back swing is only enough to change muscle groups to go forward again.If I have a definte pause on the backswing or at the cb, my brain goes in gear and allows me to second guess myself ,contributing to the tremor so this is a very bad thing for me.By doing my preshot and stroke the way that I have desribed, I have a little hand tremor but it is usually not bad enough to make me hit the ob in a place different than I was aiming at. If I am tremoring more,I take a long pause at the cb on the first preshot to be sure I have it lined up right and then speed up the rest of the preshot and taking even more pausing out.

I practiced the recommended way for months. I tried wearing a brace,shooting off handed, I tried shooting with my shooting arm snug against my chest, snooker style, just about anything I could think of, changing alighnments everything. But everything I tried was with the big pause. Maybe I would have progressed faster in pool if I werent fighting my own body. If I had been doing what is natural, I could have been developing better potting instead of fighting my stroke.

Yesterday, when I did it the natural way, ww said my stroke looked beautiful and balls were dropping and some of them were hard cuts. So maybe I need to stop fighting and start playing /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Laura

bluewolf
03-12-2003, 11:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigbro6060:</font><hr> I don't like to pause too long, my pause is very short but it is there

too much of a pause allows for thoughts to enter your head, not a good thing!

<hr /></blockquote>

BINGO!!! "When I am inside my head, I am behind enemie lines"

Laura

bluewolf
03-12-2003, 11:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr> All players "pause" on every shot. Some are just more noticeable than others. Mark said it best, the "pause" stops most players from jerking their cue out of line on the forward swing....randyg <hr /></blockquote>

I took a lesson from scott last august,7 months ago. I took pool school from randy g in oct, 6 months ago. I have practiced based on what I remembered from those lessons.Because of them I do have a good stroke, a good bridge and other things.

As far as the pause, It is possible that , given the many months since i saw them, I have forgotten some of what they said about that. I hope I havent not said anything that discredits either of them in anyway, but it is possible. It is possible that if I had been seeing either one of them on a continuous basis then they would have corrected this problem. They are both fabulous instructors. It is highl possible that the problems lies in my perceptions and maybe misconceptions of what I THOUHT I was taught.

So if i said something that isnt right I apologize to both of them /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Laura

bluewolf
03-12-2003, 12:02 PM
Larry,

I have to look at the cb to be sure the cue is in the right place. That is about it.Some people like you who are so much better do not have to do that because you know all of the permutations.

You have forgotten more pool than I will ever learn. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Laura

Rod
03-12-2003, 12:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Yesterday, when I did it the natural way, ww said my stroke looked beautiful and balls were dropping and some of them were hard cuts. So maybe I need to stop fighting and start playing
<hr /></blockquote>

Well there you go! Considering your tremors and how you described your stroke it sounds pretty good to me. I'd never know for sure without watching but it sounds good.

I know you mentioned a light grip which is good. Be sure to notice (when you practice) if your grip pressure increases any significant amount on the forward swing compared to at address. More times than not it will increase more than it should, which is not good. You want it to be consistant through out the stroke. It may increase a tiny amount but that is ok. You may want to experiment a little. I've suggested this to "certain" others and it has worked well in most cases. I had them grip the cue with a little more pressure at address. It was in fact still fairly light so it is a "little" change. With that slight increase they lost the tendacy to grip tighter on the forward swing. Just a suggestion that might help you and may want to try. If your not affected you may want to pass on this idea. Like anything in this game you have to experiment to find what works best for you. As it sounds though, you are on the right track. IMO of course.

Rod

socrates
03-12-2003, 12:59 PM
There are already have been some very informative posts made.

Once again blending some golf instruction (Holographic Golf by Larry Miller) with pool I might offer the following:

Larry describes the three static positions of the golf swing as 1. the address (posture, stance and alignment),2 the top of the swing (at the point of trasition from backswing to forward swing and 3 the balanced finish.

In pool the three static positions might be, 1 the set at the cue ball before the final stroke, 2 the transition from backswing to forward stroke and 3 the freeze on the follow through at the end of the stroke.

It appears to me that the pause (or set) at the cue ball before executing the final stroke is very important. Certainly, there are some excellent players who do not have a perceptible set at the cue ball from practice strokes to final strokes. Having said that, it apears to me that this set in static position one allows the player to learn to "lock down the shot" and to learn to feel and experience the sensations required to sense the shot is on before they loose the arrow.

Certainly open to debate but the second static position would be the transition from backswing to forward stroke. For some, as elsewhere mentioned, Buddy Hall, Allison Fisher, etc. there is a perceptible pause at static position two. I might suggest you flip a quarter in the air several times and observe the transition from the top of the flip at the point where gravity takes over and the quarter begins to return to earth. I may be wrong, as I often am, but it appears to me that it is the smoothness of this transition that is critical to delivering a proper stroke. For some this will involve a perceptible pause, while for others it will not. However, the transition must be as silky smooth as the transition described above observing the quarter.

The third static position is the freeze on the follow through. The mantra slow back, accelerate through to a fluid finish might apply here. Sometimes this will be described as staying down on the shot. Again it appears that having a smooth stroke that flows to static position number three is a very critical objective.

Having said all of that, the point of Larry Millers book is that if the golfer learns to be in the proper position at the three static positions of the golf swing then the swing can't help but naturally flow through the ball down the target line correctly.

Sorry so long but I found the concepts in Larry Miller's book very practical.

Rod
03-12-2003, 01:21 PM
Steve,
I like the visual on the quarter flip. The stroke transition needs to follow this as close as possible as mentioned. The other thing I see is the gradual increase in acceleration. Note the quarter does not fall fast in the begining, it picks up speed as it falls. A good visual for a forward stroke. Like you said it will vary from player to player but I think this is the key for a good stroke. For me the quarter would "float" a bit more at the top.

The problem of course is getting our mind to coperate and keep tension out of our muscles. Visualize what the quater would fall like with tight or tense muscles. Glad you brought that up.

Rod

bluewolf
03-12-2003, 02:38 PM
Rod,

Since you brought this up, I went to the table to check this out. I knew that I was loose but not the specifics.

During the backswing my finger position is this: cue lightly rests on first three fingers. Pinky is curled slightly but does not touch the cue, thumb is curled to barely touch the second finger but does not touch the cue. The cue is on the fingers not gripped by the palm. As the cue moves forward, the weight is gradually slightly shifted back to the 2nd and 3rd fingers such that it is not touching the index finger or thumb. In the follow through, the weight shift further back so that it is lightly on these back fingers. There is a reason I play with a wooden cue rather than one covered by irish linen. My grip is so light that when I hold a cue covered with irish linen, it will throw 4-6 inches depending on the speed, finally being caught by the ring finger and pinky. In fact, with irish, it will also slide some during preshot which I find irritating and distracting.

I was taught that the cue has enough force to do the hit so I figured it was okay if I held it real light. I know that it is atypical. I have tried different grips, the effren style, the style where it rests totally on the back fingers, but shooting like this is the only way that seems natural to me.

When I shoot offhanded, my grip is different but am working on this.

As far as the smooth transition socrates spoke of, I agree this is important. I think that I am smooth except when I am shaking and then I am lucky to hit the ball. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Laura

03-12-2003, 03:30 PM
Dear Mr. Socrates, thinking of where your body needs to be in 3 different positions, then trying to swing, checking them as you go, was how Golf was taught wrong for decades. Along comes Ballard &amp; shows everyone Golf is being taught all wrong &amp; here are your mistakes. Ballard says, you cant have 3 check points during a swing, at best you can have one, and it is best, to have none, just see it, feel it as a whole complete thing with no conscious thought directing it.
Dear Blue, somebody told you to pull the cue back on your final swing &amp; hold it for a full three seconds, now count with me, one thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three, do you realize how long that is.

If you want to build in a sure fired method to learn to choke the cheeze, you just paid out good money to be taught how to dog shots.
Once you get cpu green go, then go, pull the trigger on that puppy. The longer you stand over a shot, the greater chance you have in missing it.

We had an old Scottish golf teacher at our country club brought over from Scotland in the l950's, and he used to see us freezing over a putt, &amp; he would quietly say to us, miss it quick, Laddie.
The greatest potters of the ball in the world, playing on the longest tables, l2', into the smallest pockets, from the time they plant their bridge hand, no matter how tough the shot is, they have the shot off in 3 seconds flat, that is line up, strokes, back swing &amp; hit into the ball. 3 seconds, and I am talking about Stephen Hendry, Jimmy White, Steve Davis, Snew Ka players, or Snooker in England.

You are being told to hold your shot &amp; wait &amp; look &amp; lock up tight for a full 3 seconds, this is so ridiculous, I almost fell down when I read it. Where in the world does this crap come from? www.fastlarrypool.com (http://www.fastlarrypool.com) Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger VENI, VIDI, VICI.....

socrates
03-12-2003, 03:39 PM
Larry:

Well I happen to be a fan of Jimmy Ballard as well. I have his video's and his book.

Interesting that the name of his book is "The SEVEN common denominators of the golf swing."

In any event, one of the interesting themes in his book is how terminology common to golf is misunderstood and interpreted.

Not unlike pool.

Cheers,

bluewolf
03-12-2003, 03:40 PM
MUMS the word larry. I do have to pause enough at the cb to be sure I am aiming the cue at the right place. This is a quick pause, not a whole second. I do not think I am pausing at the backswing, just enough to change muscle groups. Like I said before, I do not rush my stroke, it is slow because I hit soft.

I will show you what I mean when I see you at vf. It is hard to tell exactly from the printed word.

Laura

Rod
03-12-2003, 03:57 PM
Laura,
I wasn't suggesting change how you grip, rather the pressure. It seems your light enough. I just said you could experiment with a slight increase. It is possible to hold the cue to light, rather rare though. Such as you experienced with the linen wrap.

Rod

Rod
03-12-2003, 04:10 PM
Larry,
Where do you dream up all of these numbers? You blow things out of porpotion. Will you show me where there is a 3 sec pause stated anywhere? I get a shot off in a tad over 3 sec with a slight pause at both ends. If you think everyone should follow this example you are sadly mistaken.

Rod

bluewolf
03-12-2003, 04:13 PM
Rod,

I must have misundertood you. I thought the purpose of the experiment was to make sure I was not tightening too much on the follow. When I started pool, I think my grip was too tight so maybe it has gone too much the other way. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Laura

03-12-2003, 09:55 PM
This weekend I was playing like god, and today I can't make a ball. My timing is horrible, I'm not sure if I'm looking at the cue ball, object ball or somewhere in between when I pull the trigger, and now I'M THINKING ABOUT THE PAUSE AT THE BACK OF MY STROKE! Sorry, I had to find an excuse for not playing well somewhere. But I do think this is pertinent. Bluewolf, sounds like your guilty of the same thing I'm currently doing: overthinking the mechanics. I've got to take a couple days off from playing and maybe I'll play naturally again.

cheesemouse
03-12-2003, 10:12 PM
thebanker,
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure if I'm looking at the cue ball, object ball or somewhere in between when I pull the trigger<hr /></blockquote>

Some one ask me that question about 20 years ago and trying to determine where my eyes where when I hit the ball tanked my game for a month. Now I avoid the tech stuff and just pocket balls.....LOL LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Rod
03-12-2003, 10:14 PM
Banker,
People do over think mechanics. There's nothing especially wrong with this, one thought at a time though during practice. I'm sure you know you can't be thinking of this and play very well. On another note don't try to fix something that ain't broke. I know, a pool player has to fiddle a little because sometimes it helps. Like any change our game suffers a bit but is only a little set back in the grand scheme of things. It'll all return to normal if that is what your seeking. Good luck on your comeback.

Rod

TomBrooklyn
03-13-2003, 05:15 AM
I think it's appropriate to think about your mechanics sometimes during practice, but in games it is preferable not to focus on your mechanics. That is the time to let what you know how to do happen without analysis.

bluewolf
03-13-2003, 06:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote thebanker:</font><hr> This weekend I was playing like god, and today I can't make a ball. My timing is horrible, I'm not sure if I'm looking at the cue ball, object ball or somewhere in between when I pull the trigger, and now I'M THINKING ABOUT THE PAUSE AT THE BACK OF MY STROKE! Sorry, I had to find an excuse for not playing well somewhere. But I do think this is pertinent. Bluewolf, sounds like your guilty of the same thing I'm currently doing: overthinking the mechanics. I've got to take a couple days off from playing and maybe I'll play naturally again. <hr /></blockquote>

Sorry if that messed you up. I dont think about my stroke, bridge, grip or any of it during the match. I try out stuff in practice to see what works. If it works one day I try it the next to see if it REALLY is an improvement.

One thing I learned from randy g pool school 'standing equals thinking"

During a match, this is what I think standing up. Look at the lay of the table and what ball I want to pot and which one I want to pot next (3-4 balls ahead and the last one before the 8). If no shot, I decide which safe to play.

Then I forget about the run of balls so that I can focus on the one. Right before I get down I see pocket,ob, cb, the angle. I get down,focus, shoot.

I can tell you about pausing, grip etc that I use in practice, but if you ask me what I did in a match, I havent a clue.

Laura

03-13-2003, 09:41 PM
I'm just looking for an excuse for playing bad, and this thread was an easy mark! I'll take a couple days off and forget the bad things I was doing &amp; I'll be fine. But this is a perfect example of what happens when you think too much, and then let doubt creep into your game, or I guess in this case, MY game!

Hopster
03-14-2003, 12:08 AM
I was using a pause at the end of the back stroke today and got good results. It did teach me that i do throw the cue out of line especially on shots that need some force and it made me keep my eye on the O.B. a fraction of a second longer. Made a lot of good shots and was happy with the results.
Well we will see if it stays good over the long haul or its another one day miracle.

Popcorn
03-14-2003, 08:49 AM
Unless you are a beginner trying to develop a stroke it should not be so conscious. If things are already working for you, don't think about it anymore. You do have some sort of pause already, everybody does. Since you say how well you were already playing, don't tinker. Years ago I knew a kid that was a natural player, (Some you on here know him, He owns a room in Philadelphia and is a super straight pool player now, I don't want to use his name). One day he gets hold of the book by Mosconi. In the book Mosconi is seen holding the cue a few inches behind the balance point. The kid now holds the cue at the far end of the wrap and never misses a ball. He begins reading the book and before you know it he is holding the cue like Mosconi and standing high over the balls trying to copy everything in the book. By the way, Mosconi used to pose for pictures in a phony stance as did many players, it was not anything like they really played. Mosconi held the cue pretty far back most of the time, and was far down on the ball, yet he preached in his books the opposite. To make a long story short, the kid needed several months to get all that crap out of his mind and get back to his natural style. I think as many players have been messed up by those pool books as have been helped. All that stuff is meant as guide lines, but are not written in stone and should not be taken literally. Same with much of what you read here. Be open minded, that is how you learn, but If what you are doing works, stick with it.

03-14-2003, 07:06 PM
DEAR Rod, sir, I did not mis state anything, I only repeated what blue posted, how can that be a mis state, it was a quote. She stated she had been taught to hold &amp; lock up for a full 3 seconds, then hit the CB. Rod, they dont call me Fast Larry for nothing, I am a fast player, I plant and have my shot gone in a full 3 seconds.

Sir, I have my opinion, you have yours, blue I am sure has her's. Allow us to focus on the fact we have free speech in this country, and a new player can hear different concepts, and choose the one they feel might work for them best.

Mosconi, the greatest player of all time, had no pause, and I teach Mosconi, that is all I can say. Allison Fisher proves that method works, Mosconi proves his method works, but allison does not freeze over the CB &amp; neither does Buddy Hall for a full 3 seconds, that was my only point, that is an eternity, and can only lead to a choke, which was my opinion.

To: Socatres, I was taking golf lessons from Ballard when he had a school in the middle of no where in Alabama when he was a giant nobody, I am a disciple of his, and I understand his concepts, as well as anybody. I did not have to read his book, I went through his entire school, and grunted on the range with him many times. I learned his methods hands on, which resulted in a scratch handicap, of which I can prove. The man is a fargin genius, so far ahead of everyone else, it was scary.
Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger

Rod
03-14-2003, 08:54 PM
Well Larry you show me where she was told to pause for 3 seconds. I was talking about change of direction and grip pressure, we all have one including you. Your cue has to stop somewhere before it starts forward otherwise you'd have some sort of rabbit stroke, like a beginner. Yes your entitled to your opinion and I happen to agree, anyone with a 3 sec pause is in trouble, no one does that. But you did pull a rabbit out of the hat when you brought it up from nowhere.

If you post a reply will you put it below this one instead of somewhere unrelated. Your posts rarely address the original comment. That's like telling me something but your talking to bill, george or harry while your speaking. lol I'm over here Larry!

bluewolf
03-14-2003, 10:29 PM
I was told by one instructor to pause at the cb on the last preshot and ask 3 questions. The questions were to be sure I was ready to shoot. If one is following that instructor's suggestion, the length of the pause, I guess, is dictated by how long it takes to ask the questions.

Another instructor said set,pause,finish, freeze. The set at the cb on the last preshot was brief. The pause on the backswing was two seconds. This two seconds was to learn the pause. I was told that once I learned it, I might not pause quite that long. So where the 3 sec idea comes from from Larry may be due to a combination of suggestions. I do think that they are good suggestions and have worked for many of their students. I just needed to shorten my pause so that my brain wont get in the way. Instead of a long pause at the cb on the last preshot, I pause on each preshot just long enough to be sure that I have my tip on the cb where I want it to be. My back pause is just long enough to change muscle groups. So, I do not think it is a matter of the methods being wrong, it is that I have to shorten it so that my brain doesnt have ample time to say weird stuff to me.

Laura

bluewolf
03-14-2003, 10:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> DEAR Rod, sir, I did not mis state anything, I only repeated what blue posted, how can that be a mis state, it was a quote. She stated she had been taught to hold &amp; lock up for a full 3 seconds, then hit the CB. Rod, they dont call me Fast Larry for nothing, I am a fast player, I plant and have my shot gone in a full 3 seconds.

Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger <hr /></blockquote>

I was told to pause at the cb to ask 3 questions. Is that what you meant by 3 seconds?

Laura

Scott Lee
03-15-2003, 01:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> I was told to pause at the cb to ask 3 questions. Is that what you meant by 3 seconds?

Laura <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, if you look at your tape again, you will see it is FOUR questions, not three. The pause at the CB is TWO seconds...just long enough to ask the questions and get the right answers. There should NOT be, imo, any significant pause at the end of the backswing. Just enough to make a transition from backwards to forwards motion. However, the pause at the end of the backswing works well for many players, including many top pros. Popcorn said it wisely...
use what works for you!

Scott

bluewolf
03-15-2003, 05:25 AM
And what works for me is a smooth stroke. And btw, ww showed me an aiming tip and in spite of my towo-dom, I am now potting long cuts at 30%. I am sure that when scott is done with me, it will be even higher % /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Laura

03-15-2003, 08:15 PM
Dear Blue, you seemed to realize you have paid good money for a boat load of crap that is totally ridiculous. You are trying to admit this, but cant, being now trapped into loyalty to your teacher. I always admire loyalty, it is a wonderful trait, and I have posted you should not jump from flower to flower, or teacher to teacher, or you will become confused &amp; develop the disease you are now coming down with which is paralysis by analysis.

I totally think you should stay with the people teaching you, and follow their methods, it will be simplier for you.
They will tell you it is right, just accept without question their teachings, then confusion will end for you.

You choose your path, may it lead you to where you want to go, &amp; I wish you well, I really do.

For others who are still undecided on this issue, and are still open minded on this subject, may I advance the following please:

To quote blue, she said 3 seconds, has now corrected her self to say she was taught 2 seconds of freeze &amp; pause on her backswing, Ok, no worry mate, now let's examine how long 2 seconds really is, count with me, very slowly, one thousand one, one thousand two, it's a bloody eternity, way too damn long, and any one teaching that, I would bet wonder dog they cant run a damn rack.

You paid good money for a teacher to teach you to go to the end of your backswing &amp; freeze like a deer in the road blinded by headlights, freeze solid for 2 full seconds, and now ask your self in this position, 3 questions, and now your instructor has corrected you telling you that you should now ask yourself 4 full questions, before you pull the trigger. Of all the dumb things I have ever heard in pool, this one takes the cake. Do that, and you will be an apa 2 for life.

When you hit the top of your backswing, your brain should be empty of any conscious thought, no talking, no questions, nothing, you have turned your game over to your on board cpu, and it can simply control a forearm to simply swing back and forth in a perfect pendulum stroke with no mental help or direction. You are being taught, how to choke &amp; dog, trust me. During a stroke, in golf, everyone agrees, you can have only one thought, or key, try to control 2, or 3, God forbid 4, and you will kill off &amp; destroy all natural rhythm &amp; athletic coordination. You are being taught to play like a mechnical robot, I teach you to play by feel, with your mind, naturally, &amp; simply flow with the shot with no mental direction.
Mechnical players are losers, feel players are champions.

Let's go back to Golf, a real sport, pool is not, real pros, the top 30 all make over a million bucks a year, the top 10 all fly's their own jets to events &amp; make l5 mil a year. They all have their own guru top of the heap swing coaches. They have studied all of this stuff for 50 years.
Putting a golf ball is just like striking a cue ball, both balls are white &amp; round, both are hit with a stick, and both perform best when they are truely rolled with top spin.
All the greats in pool, Greenleaf, Mosconi, Hoppe hit up &amp; throught the top of a cue ball to impart this proper running English, they understood this vital concept. Today there is a clic of teachers teaching to hit the ball down &amp; into the bed of the cloth goes the cue, which produces a skid. There is not a single golf pro on earth, that would agree with this total nonsense, and all hit the golf ball on the putt like Hoppe, Mosconi, Greenleaf hit their cue balls. This one is a given, dont even try to argue it, pool is dead wrong on this, and golf proves them wrong.

In pool, a top pro might 2 or 3 times a year, hit a cue ball to win l0 grand. Golfers hit a golf ball with a putt for a million bucks all the time. For that kind of money, dont you think they would find out what the proper method is. The putt or roll of a golf ball, is very similiar to the hit &amp; roll of the cue ball, just slightly different instruments used to get it rolling. You cant find a single golfer alive, anywhere on earth, that takes a putter back &amp; freezes over the putt on his back swing for a full 2 seconds, then asks himself 4 friggin questions on how he is doing. The entire concept of this is so totally mad, I simply makes me shiver on what else these people are telling you to do.

The Golfers pause before the stroke, get line up &amp; cpu green, just like I do on a pool table, then the backswing &amp; forward swing is in one continuous movement, devoid of any mental direction or control of the swinging club, it now becomes a feel thing, &amp; hitting up over the top of the golf ball is their primary thought. Not a single golf pro alive today, would even consider chopping down on their ball producing a skid. If you went out &amp; tried to teach this garbage, they would laugh you out of town.
Pool players can learn a lot from Golf, and this is a perfect example.
Fast Larry Guninger www.fastlarrypool.com (http://www.fastlarrypool.com)
Shoot straight, innovate, no fear, and never give up, and for Gods sake, dont skid the friggin cue ball, and don't freeze over the cue ball for 2 fargin seconds &amp; begin to ask 4 questions, if Fatty was alive today &amp; he heard that one, he would say, Dis is un beeeee leave able.
VENI, VIDI, VICI.....

Scott Lee
03-16-2003, 12:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> Dear Blue, you seemed to realize you have paid good money for a boat load of crap that is totally ridiculous. You are trying to admit this, but cant, being now trapped into loyalty to your teacher. I always admire loyalty, it is a wonderful trait, and I have posted you should not jump from flower to flower, or teacher to teacher, or you will become confused &amp; develop the disease you are now coming down with which is paralysis by analysis.

I totally think you should stay with the people teaching you, and follow their methods, it will be simplier for you.
They will tell you it is right, just accept without question their teachings, then confusion will end for you.

You choose your path, may it lead you to where you want to go, &amp; I wish you well, I really do.

For others who are still undecided on this issue, and are still open minded on this subject, may I advance the following please:

To quote blue, she said 3 seconds, has now corrected her self to say she was taught 2 seconds of freeze &amp; pause on her backswing, Ok, no worry mate, now let's examine how long 2 seconds really is, count with me, very slowly, one thousand one, one thousand two, it's a bloody eternity, way too damn long, and any one teaching that, I would bet wonder dog they cant run a damn rack.

You paid good money for a teacher to teach you to go to the end of your backswing &amp; freeze like a deer in the road blinded by headlights, freeze solid for 2 full seconds, and now ask your self in this position, 3 questions, and now your instructor has corrected you telling you that you should now ask yourself 4 full questions, before you pull the trigger. Of all the dumb things I have ever heard in pool, this one takes the cake. Do that, and you will be an apa 2 for life.

When you hit the top of your backswing, your brain should be empty of any conscious thought, no talking, no questions, nothing, you have turned your game over to your on board cpu, and it can simply control a forearm to simply swing back and forth in a perfect pendulum stroke with no mental help or direction. You are being taught, how to choke &amp; dog, trust me. During a stroke, in golf, everyone agrees, you can have only one thought, or key, try to control 2, or 3, God forbid 4, and you will kill off &amp; destroy all natural rhythm &amp; athletic coordination. You are being taught to play like a mechnical robot, I teach you to play by feel, with your mind, naturally, &amp; simply flow with the shot with no mental direction.
Mechnical players are losers, feel players are champions.

Let's go back to Golf, a real sport, pool is not, real pros, the top 30 all make over a million bucks a year, the top 10 all fly's their own jets to events &amp; make l5 mil a year. They all have their own guru top of the heap swing coaches. They have studied all of this stuff for 50 years.
Putting a golf ball is just like striking a cue ball, both balls are white &amp; round, both are hit with a stick, and both perform best when they are truely rolled with top spin.
All the greats in pool, Greenleaf, Mosconi, Hoppe hit up &amp; throught the top of a cue ball to impart this proper running English, they understood this vital concept. Today there is a clic of teachers teaching to hit the ball down &amp; into the bed of the cloth goes the cue, which produces a skid. There is not a single golf pro on earth, that would agree with this total nonsense, and all hit the golf ball on the putt like Hoppe, Mosconi, Greenleaf hit their cue balls. This one is a given, dont even try to argue it, pool is dead wrong on this, and golf proves them wrong.

In pool, a top pro might 2 or 3 times a year, hit a cue ball to win l0 grand. Golfers hit a golf ball with a putt for a million bucks all the time. For that kind of money, dont you think they would find out what the proper method is. The putt or roll of a golf ball, is very similiar to the hit &amp; roll of the cue ball, just slightly different instruments used to get it rolling. You cant find a single golfer alive, anywhere on earth, that takes a putter back &amp; freezes over the putt on his back swing for a full 2 seconds, then asks himself 4 friggin questions on how he is doing. The entire concept of this is so totally mad, I simply makes me shiver on what else these people are telling you to do.

The Golfers pause before the stroke, get line up &amp; cpu green, just like I do on a pool table, then the backswing &amp; forward swing is in one continuous movement, devoid of any mental direction or control of the swinging club, it now becomes a feel thing, &amp; hitting up over the top of the golf ball is their primary thought. Not a single golf pro alive today, would even consider chopping down on their ball producing a skid. If you went out &amp; tried to teach this garbage, they would laugh you out of town.
Pool players can learn a lot from Golf, and this is a perfect example.
Fast Larry Guninger www.fastlarrypool.com (http://www.fastlarrypool.com)
Shoot straight, innovate, no fear, and never give up, and for Gods sake, dont skid the friggin cue ball, and don't freeze over the cue ball for 2 fargin seconds &amp; begin to ask 4 questions, if Fatty was alive today &amp; he heard that one, he would say, Dis is un beeeee leave able.
VENI, VIDI, VICI..... <hr /></blockquote>

Larry...You ignorant slut! LOL In the first place, I did not teach Laura to pause at ALL on the backswing. I teach a pause at the CB. You have NEVER seen me teach, so you are totally unqualified to make any statements about my style of instruction (which, btw, works quite well for thousands of people). I don't make blatent remarks about you, unless you attack others who just don't happen to agree with you. There is room for many styles of instruction, and something can learned from all of them.
Stick to what you do best...which is teaching your own way.
Quit badmouthing others, when you don't have a monopoly on what is or isn't correct! You have your opinion, and nobody is questioning or damning you for it. Live and let live...

Scott Lee

bluewolf
03-16-2003, 06:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Larry...You ignorant slut! LOL In the first place, I did not teach Laura to pause at ALL on the backswing. I teach a pause at the CB. You have NEVER seen me teach, so you are totally unqualified to make any statements about my style of instruction (which, btw, works quite well for thousands of people). I don't make blatent remarks about you, unless you attack others who just don't happen to agree with you. There is room for many styles of instruction, and something can learned from all of them.
Stick to what you do best...which is teaching your own way.
Quit badmouthing others, when you don't have a monopoly on what is or isn't correct! You have your opinion, and nobody is questioning or damning you for it. Live and let live...

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Hey scott. You taught me a GREAT stroke, which was reinforced in randy g pool school . But, I really hated the pause part. I tried going down on the cb and asking myself those 4 questions and by the time I remembered all of them, it seemed like I had been over that damned white ball forever. I have to be honest, I dumped that. I do have a slight pause at the cb to see that my tip is point at the place on the cb where I wanted it to be. As far as questions I ask myself those standing up. I know you are a great teacher, but you know me scott, I am somewhat of a renegade!!!

I am sure this method works for thousands, it just does not work for me.

What worked for me is the marvelous stroke follow and freeze that I now have and am looking forward to seeing you again. I know if I do have any inconsistencies in my stroke, you will help me with that along with suggestions on how to be more accurate in my shooting.

Take care, my montana friend.

Laura

Race2-9
03-16-2003, 07:29 AM
Larry; If you don't have a pause at any point in the execution phase of your stroke...please explain to me how you beat the laws of physics and change a motion moving to the rear to a motion moving forward? The stroke of execution is a linear accelerating movement, you have to change motion somewhere along the line. Also, I don't know if it's your nature or what but you always come across as MY WAY OR IT'S CRAP when did education become advesarial! And last but not least...have you ever heard of a teaching technique in which a new physical technique is taught in an concentrated, exagerated, repititious format?

randyg
03-16-2003, 07:41 AM
They certainly raise more than corn in Iowa. Great answer....randyg

bluewolf
03-16-2003, 08:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr> They certainly raise more than corn in Iowa. Great answer....randyg <hr /></blockquote>

Randy,

You and socrates have something in common. You are constantly learning new stuff. I imagine, knowing you, that there will be news things at pool school this summer.

Laura

03-16-2003, 11:55 AM
Dear Scott, I did not mention your name, I just quoted what Blue posted on the board, and she has stated she is taking lessons from 3 different people, and she is not my student.
If this came home to you, and the shoe fits, well wear it.
Hell, maybe you can learn something new here, wouldn't that be a hoot...

As far as you calling me a slut, that was very professional of you, and sir, I am not a female, therefore I cannot be a slut, I am a male, I dont wear a dress. As for you calling me ignorant, you have a right to your opinion of me, of course any time any one has a opinion that is different from yours, your only conclusion or reaction has to be that person has to be ignorant.

I have told you a dozen times, throw mud on me, I throw mud back on you. You just cant figure this one out can you, maybe this one is too deep for you. I really dont give a damn how &amp; what you teach, just keep doing exactly what you are doing, keep teaching what you know &amp; believe it, and so will I. The more you keep doing that, the better it makes me look.

To: Stranger, my method of swinging a club back &amp; forth in one continuous natural swing in a perfect pendulum &amp; letting it find it's own path on it's own, you are now telling me I cant do that because it would beat the laws of physics. Dude, quit eatin that Peyote stuff out there in that desert, you will begin to see the laws of physics alter for sure.

Do you have a TV, if so turn it on any weekend, to a prime time channel during the afternoon, pool aint on, but Golf is. Watch the top Golfers in the world putt for a half million dollars. That is how you do it, and this does not defy any laws of physics, you must let the puppy swing back &amp; forward in one flowing motion, why is that so damn hard for you to fathom, do you teach some complicated controlled swing, and it sounds like you do.

Both balls are white &amp; round, but get struck by a stick/club, and the object of both is to get whitey rolling properly. If there was any advantage to freezing on the backswing for 3 full seconds, and then doing a 4 thing review of where you were, the golfers would be doing this. You cant see one of them any where on earth who has a pause on his backswing, not one. Nada dude. Nine, dumkolf...
The golfer also strikes the ball on his upstroke, hitting up through the ball which gives him natural top rolling forward spin, which was exactly how Greenleaf, Mosconi &amp; Hoppe hit their cue balls, and I have that on tape, so don't even think about going there. If you began to teach in Golf, on the putt, hit down on the ball producing a skid at first, they would pick you up &amp; carry out out to the parking lot &amp; throw you in the dumpster. If you began to teach on the putt, on your backswing, stop &amp; freeze for a full 3 seconds, now do a 4 thing check off mentally, they would laugh you out of Dodge. Watch Golf &amp; putting, you may learn something.
Fast Larry Guninger www.fastlarrypool.com (http://www.fastlarrypool.com)
Shoot straight, innovate, no fear, and never freeze &amp; lock up over the damn ball, and begin to think 4 things during your stroke. This entire concept, is nuts, I am sorry, but a blind man can figure this one out.

bluewolf
03-16-2003, 11:58 AM
Here is what I did not like about what you said. You say that I wasted money on instruction that in your opinion is wrong methods. Even if you feel strongly that that is true, it is rude to put down other instructors and I feel that you should disagree a little more tactfully.

But my real beef is this and what you said really hurt my feelings. You say on one side that if I stay with my current instructor I will not progress and on another hand that because of having loyalty to them that i should stay with them, implying that if I do not abandon them and swear undying allegiance to you, you will not teach me.

I like you very much larry,and can tell that you know some very good pool.Even though you have been rude to my friends, I have been nothing but a friend to you. To imply that you would not teach me unless I abandone scott and randy is nothing less than a slap in the face. I am feeling abandoned and jilted.

Laura

cycopath
03-16-2003, 01:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr>As far as you calling me a slut, that was very professional of you, and sir, I am not a female, therefore I cannot be a slut, I am a male, I dont wear a dress. As for you calling me ignorant, you have a right to your opinion of me, of course any time any one has a opinion that is different from yours, your only conclusion or reaction has to be that person has to be ignorant.
<hr /></blockquote>I'm pretty sure he's just pulling your leg on that one Larry, that's a quote from an old Saturday Night Live Weekend Update skit. Chevy Chase says, "Jane, you ignorant slut" during their point-counter point type skit.
I don't think it was anything personal.

Ludba
03-16-2003, 07:30 PM
Has anyone, especially bluewolf, considered that the two-second pause is a PRACTICE technique rather than a playing technique? Doesn't it make sense that you should train differently than you play? Training/practice requires that you think consciously about the process of doing. Playing requires that you dispel the self-conscious thoughts, adjustments, and second-guesses and just trust that your practice will pay off, because your body has learned to do without your mind thinking about it too much. Bluewolf mentioned that it was difficult to do what Lee teaches. Since Lee has also taught me this method, I can agree that it is difficult. You have to force yourself to focus on the process, though previously you haven't thought too much about it or you've been doing it a different way for some time. It's incredibly difficult to focus that hard on anything for two seconds, and I wouldn't suggest focusing on the process in a league or tournament match. BUT, if you were to practice what Lee teaches for several months, it would become second nature. It would become easy, and, I would further argue, that IT WOULDN'T TAKE YOU 2 SECONDS anymore to go through this mental and physical process of focusing on what's required to pocket ball, namely where to hit the CB, where you want the CB to hit the OB, how hard you need to hit the CB, and where you expect the CB to end up. The important thing here is that you HAVE a disciplined pre-shot routine, so that you are executing the stroke the same way each time. I will however admit that some pre-shot routines are better than others, but at the beginning and intermediate levels of play there will be an improvement from HAVING a pre-shot routine, even if you don't have the Super Duper Pre-shot 3000 that any particular instructor may be able to teach you.

All I'm saying is this: 1) have a plan; 2) execute that plan; and 3) don't worry about whether the plan is working until after you've finished. A pre-shot routine is your plan of action. Try it for several months before you decide that "it doesn't work for me." I think it was Jack Nicklaus that said, "Give the medicine time to work." More importantly, take the medicine as the doctor has indicated. Then, after several months, if the medicine is causing side-effects like nausea or incontinence, try something different. But don't be afraid to commit for several months to testing out what your teacher has taught you. Sure you may find out he was wrong, and you may think you've lost several months in training the wrong way, but the truth is that you have learned to a verifiable certainty what works or doesn't. In the long run, you have gained true experiential knowledge as opposed to estimating that this instructor's teaching "just doesn't work for me," when maybe it would work for you if you just gave your body time to learn what you're trying to teach it.

bluewolf
03-16-2003, 09:03 PM
The questions scott was talking about I did practice . It did not work , I do my thinking standing up. Scott and I have talked at lenght about this and he understands that this method was not right for me.

Randy advocated the 2 second pause on the backswing. It was exxplaine d to me that this was for practice not in a match.

LAURA

Ludba
03-16-2003, 09:19 PM
"The questions scott was talking about I did practice."

Good, I just wanted to point out an important distinction no one else had made.

TomBrooklyn
03-16-2003, 11:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ludba:</font><hr> Has anyone, especially bluewolf, considered that the two-second pause is a PRACTICE technique rather than a playing technique? <hr /></blockquote>Has anyone, including bluewolf, considered that each of your posts is accompanied by a picture of a monkey wearing a red jumpsuit and a diaper?

03-17-2003, 12:33 AM
Dear blue, all these teachers have been on my case for a long time, or many of them. If they stop trashing me, and begin to be nice to me, I can &amp; will respond in kind.
Blue I challenge you to show me where I ever wrote you asking you to swear undying allegiance to me, all I have ever asked you to do, is to be my friend.
I challenge you to show me where I ever wrote saying I would not teach you, it appears you are putting words in my mouth, I never spoke. You may be reading in things here, that simply do not exist.

I challenge you to show me any where where I ever asked you to be my student, or where I ever asked you to abandone anyone you are now taking lessons from. What I did was compliment you on showing loyalty to your current instructor, and what I have been advising you to do, is to stick with one person, and not go about jumping from flower to flower, and when it appeared to me that you had made that choice, and had finally made a decision &amp; got in a camp, I only said you had done the right thing. As for me bing rude to your pal, note his post where he calls me a slut &amp; states that I am ignorant. He gets to insult me, throw mud on me, but when I respond, I am being rude.

Dear Cycopath, no I don't think that slam was a joke, it was a direct insult, and I receive it and take it that way.
You have a beginner band-aid teacher here who is in over his head &amp; feels threatened, so his response is to insult &amp; run off the competition. He has the problem, not me.

Dear Ludbe, what a great post, very cool dude...
Wonder Dog has some new pics up, check them out, www.fastlarrypool.com. (http://www.fastlarrypool.com.) Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger
VENI, VIDI, VICI.....

bluewolf
03-17-2003, 06:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr> Dear blue, all these teachers have been on my case for a long time, or many of them. If they stop trashing me, and begin to be nice to me, I can &amp; will respond in kind.
Blue I challenge you to show me where I ever wrote you asking you to swear undying allegiance to me, all I have ever asked you to do, is to be my friend.
I challenge you to show me where I ever wrote saying I would not teach you, it appears you are putting words in my mouth, I never spoke. You may be reading in things here, that simply do not exist.

[/url] Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger
VENI, VIDI, VICI..... <hr /></blockquote>

Fast, I was reading between the lines. My apology to you sir. Apparently you did not mean what I thought you meant.


Laura

eg8r
03-17-2003, 10:02 AM
Well here is Fast being professional again... <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Mouth (aka Fast Larry):</font><hr> You have a beginner band-aid teacher here who is in over his head &amp; feels threatened, so his response is to insult &amp; run off the competition. He has the problem, not me <hr /></blockquote> I remember Fast saying he wanted to be more professional or something to this nature, and then he lays this beauty out for the board to read.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
03-17-2003, 11:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr> I'm pretty sure he's just pulling your leg on that one Larry, that's a quote from an old Saturday Night Live Weekend Update skit. Chevy Chase says, "Jane, you ignorant slut" during their point-counter point type skit.
I don't think it was anything personal. <hr /></blockquote>

Any attempt at humor is lost on Larry. He still can't figure out the difference between a handle (cycopath) and the poster's status (member).

So if he calls you "member" don't be offended by assuming that it is a phallic reference /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif He jus' don't know no betta'

TomBrooklyn
03-17-2003, 11:23 AM
Hey,
What happened to the monkey? It's gone.
Tom

Hopster
03-17-2003, 04:29 PM
Well guys after about a week im still using about a second pause before i pull the trigger and im getting great results. I think its giving me that final pause to finalize my aim point and i always sort of tell myself to keep my stroke smooth. previously i would sort of tighten up on my grip on a tough shot before shooting and now im sort of calming down before i shoot.
Im going to stick with this cause ive never played this well before and i think this pause is the reason.

Ludba
03-17-2003, 09:52 PM
I use the monkey, because I think it adds a certain level of credibility to the points I make about pool. :|

bluewolf
03-17-2003, 09:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr> Well guys after about a week im still using about a second pause before i pull the trigger and im getting great results. I think its giving me that final pause to finalize my aim point and i always sort of tell myself to keep my stroke smooth. previously i would sort of tighten up on my grip on a tough shot before shooting and now im sort of calming down before i shoot.
Im going to stick with this cause ive never played this well before and i think this pause is the reason.
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My husband uses the back pause and swears by it. so guess it is different strokes///...haha I made a pun.

Laura